Salvaging fire burnt trees for firewood

TomThrall · December 11, 2019, 11:31:23 AM

Hello all, this is my first post to the forums.
I own 85 acres in Colorado which was impacted by the Spring Fire of 2018. My treed acreage was about 65% burnt, populated by 4"-20" Ponderosa, Douglas Fir, and Aspens. This is a recreation property where i'd like to build a cabin.
The fire came through fast and cleaned up the forest floor and left dead standing trees. So I have a forest of dead trees;)
The bark is falling off the dead aspens. The pines still have bark but the weather is cleaning them up pretty well but they're still black. The soil is recovering well with grass and aspen regrowth.

The traditional opinion is fire burnt trees are useless as firewood. Ok, I get it. But I keep pondering if that's entirely true and an absolute? I'm pondering if the trees can be processed, tumbled, and have a marketable product?

They would debark ok but it would add a process (expense). I'd like your opinions or experiences.
Thanks;
Tom

TKehl · December 11, 2019, 11:49:26 AM

There is a difference between functionality at marketability.

If they were mine, I would use for firewood for sure. Could they be sold? Up to your local market.

I don't know Pine or CO. Locally, if it's not Oak, Hickory, or Hedge no one wants it. Locust, Mulberry, and Ash? Great firewood, but they don't sell. ???

Next question is can they be put on the ground safely?

wisconsitom · December 11, 2019, 11:57:48 AM

Hi Tom. This may not be the answer you are looking for, but have you considered the excellent qualities of a burned site for new tree regeneration? All that charred stuff is real good substrate for all of the things you want to happen in your woods. Just saying.....your desire for wood may trump my thoughts.

Biochar is essentially what you have there. In some places, folks pay good money for biochar.

Texas Ranger · December 11, 2019, 04:06:46 PM

My only thought is I hope there is a stream nearby, you will be shadow of yourself with char.

Don't ask me how I know.

Bandmill Bandit · December 11, 2019, 04:26:10 PM

I have used fire kill trees for firewood quite often with no issues as long as they are not getting punky. From your description I'd say get in and get out as many as you can ASAP.

Also Douglas Fir and Ponderosa Pine fire kill makes decent lumber too. I wouldn't be afraid to get the good/nice ones down for milling to build that cabin you're talking about.

It will be a bit of a dirty job but it wouldn't scare me off at all.

TomThrall · December 11, 2019, 06:09:42 PM

Yes they can be harvested safely, everything dead burned, everything live was charred and left standing with good integrity.
I have a 2017 ASV RT75HD skid steer I could probably add a grapple shear and handle quite a bit of it. But the land is pretty vertical and rough mountain terrain so some of it will just have to stay in place.
That fire burned 100,000 acres so it's not just me looking at solutions, all the neighbors are also scratching their heads too what to do with it. If we do nothing it'll eventually all come down on it's own and be a giant mess and become a new fire hazards.
I'd like to harvest it somehow or bring it down on my terms instead of waiting for it to all come down into a crosstimbers mess and become a new hazard.
In Colorado pine is the predominate firewood, if there's any hardwood in the state I dont' know where;)
I could mill some of it into materials for the cabin but am leaning toward ICF basement, SIP walls, and composite log siding. I could use milled beams and logs in the open rafter loft and roof beams though.
thanks

Woodpecker52 · December 11, 2019, 06:22:15 PM

Get a bandmill and start cutting the salvage into useable product. I would say if it burns then there is a market for the firewood, maybe not shrink wrapped grocery store bundles but bulk buy pickup yourself etc.

dave_dj1 · December 12, 2019, 06:21:13 AM

With today's society you can market it as "reclaimed firewood" and charge a premium for it, the kids will love it 8)

TKehl · December 12, 2019, 07:19:10 AM

With 100k acres around you, there is suddenly a glut of firewood and supply and demand takes over...

I also look at your situation and think, "great time to buy a sawmill". Basically unlimited supply of logs people would probably give you to take care of the problem and you would have a product that could be valuable enough to ship.

These guys may also give you some ideas... https://www.marks-miller.com/

Pine Ridge · December 12, 2019, 08:00:27 AM

I have burned alot of oak firewood that had been charred in forest fires. I had trouble selling it though as i had more than one person say " it didn't burn the first time, what makes you think it will burn now ".

TomThrall · December 12, 2019, 08:08:28 AM

Quote from: Pine Ridge on December 12, 2019, 08:00:27 AM...... " it didn't burn the first time, what makes you think it will burn now ".

I don't think they thought before speaking;) It was green and wet during the first fire..
My biggest concern is how to get it clean enough to be marketable. There is a LOT of firewood in Colorado, and people would not want to get black soot on their clothes or living room. If a tumbler would knock the char and bark off it would be better.
I intend to leave a lot of material in the forest. Maybe before it's over i'll mulch it all and masticate it into the soil.

Pine Ridge · December 12, 2019, 10:13:25 AM

They were folks that buy all their firewood, they didn't know sycamore from a pine tree.

doc henderson · December 12, 2019, 10:20:07 AM

standing dead without bark for two years, I would be curious what the MC is at this time. might be bucked, split and used all in the same year. sell it to real wood burners not concerned with looks as much as a well seasoned hardwood that will burn all night, or for days in an OWB.

hedgerow · December 13, 2019, 09:57:33 AM

Tom Thrall
Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have some equipment if it was me I would get started. I would check around and see if there is any market for the logs to go to a saw mill for lumber. With that many acres burned there is going to be a glut of wood. Years back on a much smaller scale I had a guy burning off CRP during a control burn got away from him and burned a small timber I had on one of my farms. Mostly hard wood. We logged out the walnut and sent them to a saw mill. We made a fair amount of the trees into firewood. That didn't work well for selling too dirty. I burned a lot of it myself and give away a lot of it to friends. A lot of the smaller trees got piled and we got burning permits and burned it. I to had some equipment I had a old track loader and a skid steer and grapple. I built a hyd tree saw for the skid loader and that helped a lot. It was a slow and dirty project. I spend a lot of time and money getting this done.

Wood Shed · December 13, 2019, 02:21:21 PM

Tom,

I would definitely contact a certified forester for advise and guidance. If you are an American Tree Farm System member you should be able to get lots of professional help for free. I am not a tax expert but you should be able to depreciate (take a loss) on your taxes. They may be able to advise you about state and federal programs for reforestation. Seeing your pics of the fire damage is hard enough, has to be harder in person. Get a plan and get to work. Looking forward to hearing news on the bright side, you will get there.

TomThrall · December 14, 2019, 08:27:56 AM

There are several layers of possible restoration/ cleanup assistance being pursued. My acreage is part of a larger 17,000 acre HOA.
FWCR News | Forbes Wagon Creek Ranch Owners Association

Thankfully my property still has some nice unburnt areas which can be enjoyed. Once I get this cleaned up it'll be very attractive to the elk.

There are a couple loggers with mills in the area, both seem to want to be paid by the acre to harvest and cleanup. One guy offered to cleanup my property if I would give him the other half of the acreage.

I have a tentative plan forming: 1. Mill the largest trees for use in the cabin. 2. Turn medium size timber into firewood. 3. Small trees get mulched or masticated back into the soil for stabilization.

I live 3 1/2 hours from the property. I retired last October. My current thought is to build the cabin first so that I can mobilize myself and equipment to the property. Anything I do with this forest is going to take a lot of time and effort, and can only succeed if i'm living on site in a cabin or camper.

So back to the firewood discussion.. A ring debarker would clean the stuff up nicely, but is a big piece of equipment to haul to the forest. it might be easier to acquire a small yard out of the woods and near civilization and haul the logs to the yard.
I've watched a hundred videos of firewood tumblers and wonder if I process and tumble the wood if it would clean it up in the tumbling process. Especially if I built my own tumbler and increase the tumbling time?
I don't know, just tossing ideas out there..
Thanks, I appreciate all your ideas and inputs!

doc henderson · December 14, 2019, 09:01:52 AM

as you know, the carbon tends to stick to stuff. think "lead" pencils. so then you may have to add water to the process, poss. with detergent. think of the gold rush processing and washing dirt off the rocks. on the scale you are speaking of, and the attention being payed to the cleanup, I am sure someone would take issue and have concerns about returning water to the environment. I would think that the water going into the ground would fix it. I have been told that water is pure after going through 6 feet of soil. anytime you burn something, however there can be toxins produced. think cigarette smoking. the orphans that used to be taken in by chimney sweeps back in the day, all got testicular cancer. they were constantly exposed to flue soot, and prob. did not bathe. think of a Christmas Carol point in history with hungry kids on the street doing what ever for food or a coin. On the scale that you describe, firewood will be in great supply, so may not be able to give the stuff away, so then may have to ship. too much processing adds to the cost. I wish I had an easy answer for you.

doc henderson · December 14, 2019, 09:07:24 AM

If the char is mostly on the bark, I think the tumbler will work. I think doug fir will sometimes withstand a fire due to the thick bark. the aspen prob. not. maybe you guys can form a coop and organize shipping to a supplier of camp firewood. the soft wood would not be used for daily heat here since we have hardwoods in Ks. please keep us in the loop for how you solve this problem. sounds like if you heat your cabin, you have more than a lifetime supply. Best Regards. PS. I have milled ERC after it was burned in a pile, and the char only goes 1/16th inch deep. so maybe making lumber is your best bet.

AlpineCutter · December 14, 2019, 09:22:02 AM

Tom,

Where are you located in Colorado? I'm in the town of Fairplay. We had a forest fire here in 2018. Which fire are you talking about?

Magicman · December 14, 2019, 10:01:23 AM

Quote from: TomThrall on December 11, 2019, 11:31:23 AMSpring Fire of 2018

This should be it Ty: Spring Fire

AlpineCutter · December 14, 2019, 02:19:00 PM

Thanks Lynn!!

Logging logginglogging · December 18, 2019, 11:08:52 AM

Personally, I want nothing to do with softwood, but i would try using chared hardwood. One think i have noticed, is that chared wood seems to soak up moisture more than non chared. Kinda like trying to re-lighting an old fire that dident finish burning, the old stuff that got rained on seems hard to get going.