Ordered myself a CNC Machine for use in the shop. If all goes well I will be getting it by the end of the month. Going to use Vcarve Pro to control it. Machine is made right here in Indiana and is called the Digital Wood Carver. This company has been great to work with and was willing to customize the machine for my needs. Cant wait to get it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/digital_wood_carver.JPG)
I can't wait to see what it can do. Dang....what a tool. smiley_thumbsup
David
This is kinda a logical progression for us. We already own an commercial embroidery business and sign shop, both of which uses computerized machines that work on the X Y Z three axis principle. Being a woodworker for over 35 years, it was only a matter of time before one of these made it into our shop and the nice thing about it is that it can use a lot of the 100,000 patterns i already have for the sign shop machine ( .AI or .EPS ) format
Fred
Fred, I love tools. But I'm begging :D......please post some pics after you get your set up and show us what this THANG does.
Indy is NOT to far for me to ship a slab.... :)
All set to pick up this machine on October 27th and cant wait. Already have a place set up for it at the house and bought an nice new laptop to control it. Will be doing some surface planing of a bunch of 3 foot long wood pieces I have at the building so I have lots of sign blanks to work with and practice with.
What features of the unit help you to decide to purchase this particular unit?
Thanks
Ron
Sounds like quite the machine. I use to deal with XYZ planes at my old job with robots.
Ronwood
There were a number of reasons i selected this particular vendor and machine
1. Value for the dollar - I believe this machine represents one of the best cnc values you will find for a machine that has the ability to cut as large as this one does. Other vendors get two to three times as much for a machine with similar capabilities.
2. I actually Know the Company Owner who is also the machines designer. He is an avid woodworker and Mechanical Engineer who has designed other much larger commercial woodworking machinery which I already own and that works flawlessly. I personally would trust anything he deigns and sells based on my past experience with his designs.
3.Quality Designs and Construction - He has put a lot of time and effort into the machine design and uses quality components in its construction that are readily available from him. No worries about buying a machine that came from China that you cant get parts for if you ever need one. This machine is built and sold right here in Indiana
4. Pre and Post Sale customer service - I have contacted the company many times on the phone and through email as i had many questions i needed answered before making my purchase. Each and every time they took the time to completely and totally answer any and all of my concerns. When I asked if the machine could be run with Vcarve Pro, which is the software i want to use, they actually took the time to download the Vcarve Pro trail software and trial cut pattern and sent me photos of the Digital Wood Carver actually cutting the pattern to perfection. This was important to me as i had not yet bought the software at cost of $750 and wanted to make sure it worked with the machine before i did lay out the money to buy it since it is not returnable. Likewise, with respect to post sales support, there is a young lady in one of the videos on their website that speaks of their excellent post sales support. I have actually sent them an email at 9:00 at night, only to get a reply within a few minutes. You cant beat customer service like that in my book.
5. They just released their new, fully tested, USB version of the machine. Prior to this, the interface from computer to machine required your computer to have a parallel interface, which is an interface that is no longer found in a majority of computers that now almost soley offer only USB ports. I wanted a machine that used a USB interface so that you could buy a fairly inexpensive, high powered laptop for about $400 to run it using the USB port. I actually did get a very nice, high speed laptop with 6G of ram and 15.6 inch screen at walmart online with 3 years warranty for less than $400
6. The company is local to me. They are located less than two hours from my home and my wife and I are actually going to pick up the machine and take some training on it at the same time. Why pay $300 to have someone crate a machine and another $800 to ship it to you if you can go and pick it up with your own truck for less than $70 in gas.
7. With all the options I ordered, including the table, dust collection system, and extra bits, the Digital Wood Carver ran me $3100. To this I added Vcarve pro software for $750 and a laptop as just less than $400 for a total investment of $4250. Not a bad price at all for a fully functional CNC machine, and much less than what other vendors wanted for machines with similar capabilities.
BB, I could have used a CNC when I was sculpting the seat on the rocker I'm building. It would have been a lot less dusty and more precise, too. ;D
Tree Feller
I am very excited to get it. My wife is even more excited than i am. She already has a list of items she wants to make on it. Today alone she said she wanted to do some fancy wood boxes for her wood pens she turns on the lathe and some character profiles for the front flower beds. She already has the patterns set and ready to go.
After you discover contouring, a solid-carbide ball end mill will become your friend! ;)
I don't have experience with V-Carve, but I used CAM software every day at work. Amazing stuff!
GRWeldon
Thanks for reply. Bought the Vectric Vcarve Pro and PhotoVcarve add on earlier this week and have it all loaded on the laptop to take with me when I go and pick up the CNC machine on the 27th so we can try it out with the machine and get everything set up with the interface.
I have to say, I am very impressed with the software so far. It is extremely user friendly and chocked full of features to make you life very easy and your designs as effortless as possible. Whoever wrote this software definately understands the needs of the wooden sign maker because you just could not find a better piece of software in my opinion. They have over 40 hours of excellent videos on their website that explains the programs features and how to design your sign using each of the features. On top of that, they have free online lifetime support, user forum, and free projects you can download.
I did a lot of comparison shopping and read a ton of software reviews and tried out quite a few demo programs before I settled on the Vectric product line. They came out on top. The one company I would never buy anything from is Bobcad. I spent 15 minutes on the phone with a sales rep from Bobcad and I can tell you this, that is was the most miserable experience I have had with a salesman in 50 years of life. In that short 15 minute time span, I caught him in at least a dozen outright lies. I was honest with him and told him I had down selected my choice to between Bobcad and Vcarve Pro. He claimed to be very familiar with Vcarve Pro. I then asked him to spend a few minutes and convince me why I should buy Bobcad over Vcarve Pro. In response to that request, He continued to claim that Vcarve did not do at least a dozen things that Bobcad could do. Problem was, he was full of it. A quick visit to their website with him quickly proved the last 10 minutes worth of statements made by him to be nothing short of total lies. Vcarve Pro did everything he claimed it would not do and then some. I thanked him for his time and went to purchase Vcarve Pro immediately. He was a better salesman for Vectric Products than they could ever hope for.
New CNC Machine was picked up yesterday and we got some excellent hands on training at the manufacturers location when we picked it up. We stopped at the Hoosier Park Casino on the way back for lunch and to use some free money casino credits they sent us in the mail. Was well worth the stop, not only was lunch free with casino credits, but the wife wound up winning a little over $500
Got the machine home and my Son In Law, Houston was kind enough to come over this morning and help me carry the machine and base down the stairs to the basement, plus stayed and helped me align the bed, level the bench and verify machine operation. He is a great person and is very eager to work with me using the CNC.
Here are a few pics of the machine all set up and of two sample carves we did with it. Just got the software this week and the machine yesterday, so lots to learn but promise more pics as we do more projects. The CNC is being run using a new, but very inexpensive Gateway laptop running a tad over 2Ghz and with 6 Gig or RAM. Interface is via USB port and through the Green colored control box you see that allows for easy, speed variable, movement of the router along the X, Y, and Z axis. CNC movement is being driven by 4 port Gecko 540 interface assemble mounted in a very nice and tidy interface box under the cutting bed. They really did a nice job with the entire machine. The system has is own shop vac for router dust and chip collection and the software turns the vacuum and router on and off automatically before and after each job.
Also purchased the diamond tip stylus so i can engrave into aluminum plates and other materials using same system and software and got a nice show and tell of how the system can also be used to create one of a kind masterpieces in marble and granite which we may also try. Very versatile machine that opens up a lot of creative possibilities. The software can even do custom inlay work to make fancy boxes and tables
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/our_cnc_pictures_001.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/our_cnc_pictures_002.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/our_cnc_pictures_003.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/our_cnc_pictures_005.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/our_cnc_pictures_006.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/our_cnc_pictures_007.jpg)
Wow, that is sweet.
Wow......a machine can write better than I can. :D
That's way to cool Fred! Will it do country pictures? Deer? Fish?
Is this a future option for a solution to Dodgy Loner's Boring Customs thread (need) ??
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61005.msg895249.html#msg895249
Beenthere - this would definately be the solution to what he is trying to accomplish
David - it can cave just about anything, certainly fish, animals, mountains. In fact i have a huge selection of vector art ( well over 100,000 ) patterns that I bought for use with the vinyl cutter we us in our sign business and all of those images will work with this machine as well.
Quote from: Busy Beaver Lumber on October 29, 2012, 01:56:21 PM
Beenthere - this would definately be the solution to what he is trying to accomplish
David - it can cave just about anything, certainly fish, animals, mountains. In fact i have a huge selection of vector art ( well over 100,000 ) patterns that I bought for use with the vinyl cutter we us in our sign business and all of those images will work with this machine as well.
That is an expen$ive solution to what I am trying to accomplish :D
Maybe after my idea is on the cover of Forbes magazine I can afford something as nice as that ;)
Gotta keep looking down the road to when you are enjoying your fame. 8)
Dodgy Loner
May not be as expensive as what you think. With all the bells and whistles I have into the machine, the very impressive software package, and new lap top, I have about $4200 into the whole set up. If I wanted to, I could have used a used $100 pc, shareware milling software and eliminated a few machine options and cut my total investment to about just less than $3000, but i have big plans for this machine and plan to have it running almost daily once I get everything in place and master the software.
By the way mine is the 96th machine that they have sold, so there are quite a few of these in use in the field
I have been thinking about this in my future as wel, difficult to justify the expenses just for a hobby and fun. Yet i bought a band saw milll, just for fun and what a blast.
I see your machine is set up using a particle board table top instead of the cast aluminum tops on other machines, any concernes here?
What router are you using? A standard wood workers router was not designed for the numbers of hours demanded by a CNC machine.
Hello Opticsguy, nice to meet you.
The top you see is actually slat board like the use on the walls in stores. It is reinforced on both sides and down the middle with pieces of wood for added strength and to avoid deflection. There is a metal frame under the wood slat top as well. The slots make it very easy to clamp down anything you with to route using the two clamps they provide with the system that simple inset into whichever groove you select.
Normally you would use a piece of sacrificial board on top of this surface so as not to damage or route into it, especially if you were cutting parts that required you to cut fully through the piece of wood you were routing. No concerns about the top. Having wood instead of aluminum could be a blessing if you accidentally did something that drove your router bit into it. Wood would be much more forgiving.
So far as the router goes, it is a craftsman variable speed, 2hp, 12 amp model. It works very well. When you route signs, which is primarily what i will use it for, most signs do not take very long to route. The one with our names routed into it took less than 2 minutes to route. If I was in a production facility and cutting parts non stop day in and day out, I would probably opts for a commercial water cooled router, which could easily cost as much as my entire set up and then some. Shopbot makes some commercial grade machines and the one called "buddy" that they offer for over $8000 ( closer to $9500 when you pay their crating and shipping charges ) still uses an air cooler 3.25hp Porter cable router and i don't hear any complaints about that usage either.
Like i said earlier, this is number 96 they have sold and i do not see any complaints about router our table on their forum. What i do see is a bunch of nice images of items their customers made using this unit. One of their customers on the video they have on their website makes their entire living by chainsaw carving and sign routing and she states they use the machine a lot and she likes it so much she wants to buy a second one.
Quote from: beenthere on October 28, 2012, 07:35:07 PM
Is this a future option for a solution to Dodgy Loner's Boring Customs thread (need) ??
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,61005.msg895249.html#msg895249
Certainly not the most efficient way to do what Dodgy is wanting. You would have to mill the angled sides by contouring with a Ball end Mill, stepping over a very small distance on each pass and doing a circle, and repeating hundreds of times. It would take at least several minutes to get any kind of surface finish. The form-cutting bit that he's going with is the best way for limited production.
The CNC machine CAN do it very well. I would use it if I wanted to do what Dodgy Loner is doing if I wanted them in aluminum!
BBL- you're right- that's about 1/3 of what I would have expected that you paid for that setup. CNC machines sure have come down in price over the last several years! I still agree with grweldon that the custom bit will be my best bet for now.
Hey Busy Beaver,
Thanks for your reply. Still kind of waiting for prices to drop closer to a barrel of oil and kind of waiting for these machines to get easier to use. I would prefer not to have to spend much time programing and debugging programs to make a project. One other part i was hoping for was a machine that could span 36" at an affordable price.
Then it comes down to paying the dentist or purchasing a CNC. :-)
Any recommended websites dedicated for you CNC users?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums
Very extensive CNC forums with much information. Mostly metalworking, but there are routers for woodworking and metalworking.
They even have sections dedicated to building your own CNC router. It's really not that difficult and I've considered doing it. I'd like to someday, but I've can't even forge the irons I currently have in the fire, if you know what I mean!
This is not the first CNC machine i have owned. In fact i actually designed and built the machine you see below. It had a smaller cutting area than the one i just bought and was run using motor drive and interface cards from Delegrange Technology. Much of the machine was made of extruded aluminum and the specialty parts were machined from aluminum stock.
As memory serves, it still cost me close to $2,000 to build the machine when all was said and done. I did a good job of cutting, but i have to say i like the electronics and construction of the one i just bought much better. I actaully sold the prototype and the rights to manufacture and sell it to a friend of mine who currently produces and sells them. Just was not big enough for my needs and projects down the road.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/machine_pitch_041.jpg)
If you wanted to make a sign that was like 12-14' would you be S.O.L. With a unit like that one or could you do some, then move the piece over and do some more? I am thinking like "over the gate" type signs.
I've built some stuff with 80/20 extrusions before like that machine. I'm not too impressed with the stuff, but I do like the fact that the screws won't loosen up, even without any lockwashers!
Hackberry Jake
This particular machine is capable of machining an area 40" x 24 ". The software, Vcarve Pro, that I bought to control the machine has a function called "tile". this allows you to create images much larger than the bed of your router by doing them in a series of tiles that you would then attach together. Doing it this way, you could literally make the signs as big as you want. You design it full size in the software just as you would any other sign, then select the tile function and tell it what size you want each tile to be based on the capacity of your machine.
I imagine you would need to practice lining up the "tiles" so you wouldn't have misaligned print.
The tile function does have an option where it will mill the image with a specified degree of image overlap and then go back and trim it precisely to within the limits of your machines tolerance.
Cant tell you how well this option works and to be honest, do not see myself using it. Most of the signs i will be routing will be somewhere between 4" x 14" and somewhere at a maximum size of say 18" x 36", all of which can be handled by this machine on a single sign blank in one shot
I keep waiting on some more pictures... You have my interest. Now I just need to start saving up for one... 8)
Will be doing some more signs this weekend. Resisted the temptation to just jump in and do something stupid before i understood all the functions of the software and actually spent about 5 days watching the hours upon hours of online training videos they have on their site for the software. We are just now starting to design things to cut out.
Is the software pretty challenging?
Does the machine actually use G-code?
What about making custom panels to go into doors of cabinets that custom cabinet makers do for homeowners that want one of a kind designs in their doors? Shipping is cheap relative to the value added.
The potential to customize for the discriminating person is unlimited.
WOW!!!
Excellent idea . Could definately do that. By way my employee Greg will be there Thursday to pick up the 2000 bf of cedar
here's a site you might want to look at.
http://johnminor.com/dwrmkr/
it will give you dxf files for boxjoints cut on the flat. the tops are slightly rounded so the corners fit just right. he also has a site for making regular box joints for boxes.
dan
( i have a joes hybrid 4 x 8 cnc.. fun )
Starting to get the hang of the software now. Just typed the text into the program and picked the font style for it, but the ribbon came from and internet acquired jpeg that we brought into the software and converted to vectors for the experience in doing so.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/Strauss_Ribbon.jpg)
Congrats Ronwood
I heard you bought yourself one and that it ships on Monday. Let me know how you like that 4th axis. I think I may get it for my wife as a birthday gift in March.
Yes , It will be here sometime next week Wed. or Thur. Will let you know how the 4th axis works.
Ron
Ronwood
What software did you decide to use with it? Did you go with the vcarve pro?
I am going with Vcarve Pro and Photocarve. I have not made the purchase yet. There is a new release of Vcarve pro coming out. It my understanding if you purchase an earlier version of software you can upgrade within the 1st year for free.
That is my understanding as well. Vcarve is excellent. Kristina and I made quite a few unique signs from scratch using it today. It is a piece of cake once you get the hang of it. I have actually mastered the art of editing other graphic images to add or subtract routed elements and modify them to look as i wish them to. We even took some video of the machine routing signs today.
Did you post them on youtube?
Ron
A few of our first totally finished and colorized signs off of our cnc machine.
Wife Created the RV image from clip art and then made some modifications to it. She then added the text.
I Created the pine trees from scratch and they are completely my own creation.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/Home_Sweet_Home_RV.jpg)
I then Created the Coffee Cup for the sign below and added the text.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/No_Coffee_No_Workee.jpg)
In the last sign, I took an image from one of the graphics packages we bought and modified it to be cnc friendly in the vcarve pro program, then added the wording to it. I am working on a second version now with a pile of poo where the officer is now. I expect these to be popular in campgrounds where less than courteous campers often walk their dogs and let them dump on other peoples sites and just walk away as if nothing ever happened, leaving the mess for the site owner to clean up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/Your_Dog_Your_Poo.jpg)
Having a lot of fun with this machine and enjoy doing the image creation and editing
Now that's pretty cool. :)
After a number of telephone discussions with Fred I bought the same unit with the 4th axis (lathe option). I just started making a few things (name signs for family) but there is a lot to learn and do the the unit. Bought mine primary for building a set of kitchen cabinets. I want to do engravings on the door panels.
With the Vcarve Pro software you can make some neat things.
Ron
I am getting pretty fast using the vcarve pro software. Today alone I created almost 20 sign patterns. Will be spending most of this weekend loading blanks into the machine and pressing the start button. Hope to have a whole pile of finished signs by weeks end. Really enjoy doing this. 8)
Glad to hear you have your up and running already Ron
I think Dave likes this thread. I can see him with one of these down the road.
By the way, that eastern red cedar in the one picture was purchased from our friend Richard at CedarUSA. Great fellow to deal with. ;D
Gosh was this ever a long journey.
All I wanted to do was add a video to this thread showing the CNC machine in operation using the new video recorder the wife was kind enough to get me a few months back
Shot the video and went to edit it using my sony studio software, only to find out that it does not support high def video.
Next step was then to get new editing software and a book on its operation and read 320 pages worth of material to figure out how to use it. So two weeks later, here is my first attempt with the new camera, Adobe Premiere Elements 11 ( which really is an awesome program). Be kind movie critics ;D
Hey Ron, you can get a good glimpse of the fixture i was telling you about that hold my sign blanks in place.
http://youtu.be/rmLzhNndzVI
Good start on the movie. I did see the clamps
Ron
New video routing another sign. This sign has already sold I have orders for another dozen of them from a local pet shop
http://youtu.be/ONn3krsqxoM
Looking good....how long does a bit last before you need to change?
Dave
Dont know the answer to that question yet. I have done about a dozen signs with that one and it is still plenty sharp
Whiteside carbide 60 degree bit. Very nice router bits
In your photo with the word Strauss, the banner is curved and the fonts are straight line. can you curve the letters to follow the banner?
Working with CNC machines are the most fascinating thing I'm done in years. The items you showed so far looks great and it only gets better. i teach an automated manufacturing class at my high school. One of the introductory projects is designing and cutting signs. Our current challenge is the design and cutting the ends of a memorial bench. We'll be cutting them from 1 1/2" red oak and cutting the mortises for the seat and back stretchers all in one operation.
The new version of AlphaCam came with a version of Vcarve Pro in the program. I haven't had time to work with it yet, but the tutorials look very promising.
This week I started to work on the CNC router I want to build for my home shop and think the most challenging part is going to get the motors and electronics up and running.
I cut Jeff a few things years ago on the first CNC machine we got, checkers and some clock faces I believe.
Looks like you've added a great addition to your business.
That is cool stuff. My last business we laser cut radio controlled airplanes. This looks like the software would be about the same. I will have to look into on of these also.
opticsguy
Yes, the text withing the banner could have been easily curved to match the contour of the banner itself. The software that we are running is awesome and provides maximum flexibility with a minimal learning curve.
Shopteacher
Thanks much for the compliments and thanks for being a wood shop teacher. It was a shop teacher, much like yourself, that gave me the knowledge and passion for woodworking 35 years ago. Over the years, I have done one hobby or another, some which I still enjoy, and some which ran their course, but the one passion I truly enjoy to this day is woodworking and I imagine I will have that passion until the day they put me in a pine box.
My wife has a few statements about me and my woodworking passion:
1. He is happiest when he is making sawdust
2. He will not get rid of a scrap of wood until not even a termite wants it because there is not enough left
3. Where else do you think Dad is, in the shop of course.
Anyway, a big thanks to you and all the other shop teachers out there. You do make a big difference in young peoples lives, and in some way shape their entire exixstence
GeorgeK
Give Burl a call at DWC and I am sure he will take care of you. Tell him Fred Strauss sent you. Him and I have become very good friends since I bought my machine and I have actually had 3 other people I know buy one of his machines since November, all of which are very happy with it. There is also another fellow I know from my local woodworking club that is going to visit Digital Wood Carver in a few weeks. He makes electric guitars and Burl is going to do a demo for him of the DWC cutting a guitar body
I am headed to Indianapolis Friday to purchase one. Going to stop by WoodMizer to see what it new.
Buying the 4th axis also
Hey Just Sawing
Did you get your CNC machine? I have been having a great time with mine. Between yesterday and today, working only a few hours I routed almost 20 signs.
Here is a pic of the few I did yesterday. They are not finished yet. Need to be inked in the routed areas, sanded, and get a few coats of clear. Will post more pics when they are done
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_008.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_009.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_010.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_013.jpg)
Wow....that Eagles' jam up. I love it. smiley_thumbsup
Dave
There is about 20 minutes work into just that eagle alone. It was originally a piece of vector art that I used for decals and banners. Problem is the lines were real thin and if i routed it without any editing, the grooves would have been very narrow and shallow, so i had to go into the vectors and thicken up the routed lines. Not a big deal to do once you have done it a few times. Had to do the same thing with the cat face as well.
Really enjoying this machine quite a bit and the creativity that it allows me to accomplish. Have actually sold some of the signs we have done already and wife is gearing up to start selling them on ebay now that we pretty much have this skill mastered.
As promised, here are pics of the completed signs shown above once they were shot with ink, sanded, and clear coated.
We could use your help. We are looking to wholesale these to people that sell at flea markets, craft fairs, festivals, and other such events of that nature. What would you say in your estimate would be a fair price to pay for signs like these? Obviously the Eagle type should go for more than the cat one or the plain text, but what is the right price to charge in your opinions?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_014.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_015.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_016.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_017.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/pens_and_Signs_018.jpg)
Latest Sign done in the shape of the state of PA and with dog bone with dogs name below. Really having fun with this CNC machine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/PA_sign_001.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/PA_sign_002.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21313/PA_sign_003.jpg)