CUT THE CRAP: Pine!

[doc henderson]

so I just got a handful of pine tree logs.  lots of branches.  I think they are Austrian.  lots of sap.  I am using both dawn and cotton picker spindle lube.  I remember the amount to use is "more" but still getting lots of waves around the knots.  I use TK blades.  mostly 10°. and I have some 7°.  I added big glugs of each to 5 gallons.  does more mean more concentration or just more volume (prob. both)  no build up on my blades.  The TK lube system is a drip system.  any thoughts.  @Magicman   @Southside  @YellowHammer  @WDH .  my other hardwood logs are cutting fine.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I like 4 degree blades when cutting knots. JMHO.

[Bruno of NH]

Big knotty pine won't cut flat with a 10° band for me.
I use a standard 7° if that don't work 4° it is.
I cut lots of nasty white pine.

[1938farmall]

50/50 diesel/bar oil - you will be amazed !

[doc henderson]

 

 


 


 

[Nebraska]

Pictures look familiar ...I'm cutting Ponderosa pine some knots.  now trying to finish before it's no good(some blue stain needs to dry out.), 4 degree blades are the only thing that have cut it well.  I still get waves when they start to dull. 9 logs left to saw.

[doc henderson]

Mostly just past the knots.  no sap on the blades.  do I need more set, or a deeper gullet.  do I need to slow down by the knots?  more tension?  not saw pine!?   :D :D :D

[YellowHammer]

More means a higher concentration per volume of water but if your bands are clean then the good news is the lube is doing its job.  

[doc henderson]

I am going to try my 7° blades after while to see if they tolerate the knots better.  this was a re-sharpened blade.  thx.  my BIL is pricing steel or the log bunks for my PJ trailer.   thanks again everyone and @YellowHammer

[btulloh]

Slow down as you approach the knot and in the knot. Some hard knots will stop a band cold if you hit it too fast. 

[ladylake]

Mostly just past the knots.  no sap on the blades.  do I need more set, or a deeper gullet.  do I need to slow down by the knots?  more tension?  not saw pine!?   :D :D :D

You need a shallower gullet,  4° with more set.  You shouldn't have to slow down for knots.  Also ,do you have the down pressure adjusted to 1/4" down, if not get it there.  Steve

[btulloh]

You shouldn't have to slow down for knots.

I have to.  Must depend on the type of pine and blade factors.  I don't set my own blades, so the set is the set.  Pine here has very hard knots.  You could say the knots are "hard as a pine knot" (old expression).  Whatever works for a given situation is a good solution IMHO.  YMMV.  :D

[alan gage]

I've sawn some of that here too. Knotty gnarly stuff. I don't recall having a problem with waves. That was with 4 degree kasco blades, which I use on everything. It took more lube to keep the blade clean.

Knotty spruce is what really gets me. Increasing set seems to be a big help so far. Have another big batch coming up in a couple weeks. Also got a few more of those scots pine logs. Almost don't know if I want to saw the pine or not. The first load was some really pretty stuff but a lot of it, especially the heart wood, is pretty gummy even after drying a couple years. Don't have any way to set the pitch.

Alan

[Southside]

When is the last time you checked your drive belt tension? Not the best choice overall but a sharp 10 deg will cut pine knots, and you don't have a pitch build up issue, so I would look to make sure your bands are not slowing down when they encounter a hard spot. 

[Stephen1]

When is the last time you checked your drive belt tension? Not the best choice overall but a sharp 10 deg will cut pine knots, and you don't have a pitch build up issue, so I would look to make sure your bands are not slowing down when they encounter a hard spot.

I check my drive belt tension a lot more now. Makes a difference. Change that blade sooner is the other lesson I have learned. I saw EWP all the time , probably 75% of my work is pine for the home owner. I will use 4-5 blades ina day of portable sawing EWP. It is usually large pine I'm sawing and everyone wants to repurpose that huge EWP that they took down in their yard.

[doc henderson]

the TK manual recommends a 1/8th inch down pressure, and I had the tension at 1400 (range 1300 to 1500)  and the down deflection was after a knot.  no build up as mentioned.  It is a re-sharpened blade.  I have about 8 more logs so the good news is I have plenty more to practice on.  the bad news is I have 8 more to practice on.   :D :D :D  thanks!  I will re-check my guide wheel settings. thanks!  may have to get some specialty bands for pine.  what do you all recommend.  I spoke to KASCO last time at Jake's. and the gentleman that does some custom blade profiles.  @customsawyer 

[JoshNZ]

I don't know much about sawing in general doc but I got some pine on my new mill for the first time last week, it had a perfect track record until then.

I vote your last option, don't saw pine  :D that'll be my first choice where I can!

[Walnut Beast]

LadyLake has said 1/4 down on the guides cuts way better on the TK than the 1/8 recommended 

[Larry]

I think we both have the same mills so I'll give you my experience.

I'm pretty sure I've tried every blade made from anybody who makes blades.  Thicker and wider blades always do better than thinner narrow bands.  The downside is thicker/wider is more expensive and they break early.  The trick is to find a band somewhere in the middle that does a good job.

I think I've found the perfect band.  Its the Kasco 7/29 .050 1-1/2" wide.  Yes, it breaks a little faster, I'm getting 3 - 5 sharpenings.  Its not much more expensive than 1-1/4 bands.  Production and flat cuts in all species makes up for that.  I'm sawing 32" wide slabs in hickory, walnut, oak, and other hardwoods on a regular basis with zero problems.  Check the Whats Ya Sawing thread or my gallery.  I saw SYP and hardly think about the knots.  Yes, I can still get a wave but I really have to try.....not something that happens by accident.

As soon as I exhaust all my 1-1/4 bands the only thing that I will have in my shop is the Kasco 7/29. 

Two things concerned me when I first started using these bands.  I have an actual Starrett band tension meter.  The spring in our TK tensioner won't tension them to factory spec.  So I'm actually running them at lower tension than Kasco suggests, but I think it gives me a longer band life without consequence.  My second concern was the guide rollers are engineered for 1-1/4" bands.  This ended up not being a problem either, because the gullets are so deep in the Kasco 7/29, 1-1/2" guides are not needed. 

Our band length is not standard with Kasco so it takes sometimes a month to get bands. 

@Cutting Edge

Sometimes I don't remember to get all the details right so Cutting Edge feel free to correct me.  Richard can also answer any of your questions.

As far as lube I use cotton spindle cleaner oil most of the time.  It got back ordered on me in the winter so I substituted PineSol and Canola oil (my secret) but I'm back on cotton spindle oil now.

[Walnut Beast]

Do you use that cotton spindle oil on everything for a lube

[YellowHammer]

I do.  Many years ago, when I was being shown some techniques on my mill from one of Woodmizer's top competition Sawyers, and the first thing he did was go way back in his truck and pull out a jug of the spindle cleaner and add it to the water.  He said it was the best he'd used, better even than the WM factory stuff.

I've been using it ever since, and even tried some of the experimental stuff from Lubie Lube, who makes many commercial variations of band cleaner, even the WM lube, and the Cotton Picker Spindle Cleaner still is the best for me and I cut about 20 different species.  It's designed to clean the vegetable matter and dirt from high dollar cotton pickers, so it does the same for bandsaw bands.  It's a water soluble oil emulsion

[barbender]

I've learned with pine and spruce, once the knots get to a certain size it may as well go in the burn pile. Even if you saw it flat the lumber quality is very poor. I'd say split it for firewood but that doesn't even work very well with the gnarly stuff. Doc, once you get your blade sawing knotty pine nice and flat, come up north and try some knotty white spruce. It can make you cry😁

[ladylake]

the TK manual recommends a 1/8th inch down pressure, and I had the tension at 1400 (range 1300 to 1500)  and the down deflection was after a knot.  no build up as mentioned.  It is a re-sharpened blade.  I have about 8 more logs so the good news is I have plenty more to practice on.  the bad news is I have 8 more to practice on.   :D :D :D  thanks!  I will re-check my guide wheel settings. thanks!  may have to get some specialty bands for pine.  what do you all recommend.  I spoke to KASCO last time at Jake's. and the gentleman that does some custom blade profiles.  @customsawyer

Doc   .   I'm just telling you what works over here.  Running 1/4 down pressure, 4°, shallow gullet, heavy set will cut spruce nice and straight at good feed rates up to 14" wide and just a slight up and down over that, nothing that wouldn't plane out in 1 pass.  Steve

[ladylake]

 Doc  One other thing to check, the early TK 2000 mills on the movable guide had a round rod for in and out with a bar going up to the head with a c shaped piece on top that went around the frame.  That round rod was not strong enough to maintain down pressure when extended.  The fix is to put about a 7/16 or so piece of white plastic between the c piece and the frame which will keep the down pressure when the guide arm is extended.  I see the newer TK 2000 mils have a way beefed up movable guide arm on them.  Steve

[richhiway]

 

 
Yes knots in pine can get you nice boards! I can cut all day perfect then this.
A new blade and go slow works for me. I cut pine with 10's but I am going to turbo 7's as I replace them.
Hardwood and trouble wood I use 4's. The blade tension on the LT 40 is 2300.