Need life advice for getting into Timber Framing

[DrakeTruber]

Folks, I’m looking for life advice. I’m a young man (24) with a wife and baby looking to make a career choice. I’m a 2d artist by trade and while I enjoy the work and am good at it, I’d rather be outdoors and working with my hands. Also, art is a fairly unstable profession and work can be spotty.

Like many of you, I am interested in timber framing because of the satisfaction of good, lasting craftsmanship, which contrasts strongly with modern carpentry. There are no timber framing companies nearby (I’m west of Fortwayne, Indiana) and I’m not the type to get excited by osb and pneumatic nailers. What would you folks do if you were in my shoes. Is it worth grinding for four years as carpenter if I want to start a timber framing company (since there are none around) while side hustling with small timber framed sheds?

Many many thanks
Drake Swartzentruber

[Don P]

Hey Drake,

Well, I guess do the sentence at least until you understand a little more about carpentry  :D. Your family would probably appreciate a steady paycheck too. While learning historic carpentry, study contracting, construction law, engineering and architecture as they relate to your work if you wish to go out on your own. Subscribe to the related trade journals. Here you would need to pass a few community college courses before sitting for the licensing tests, union might be of help there?

Listen, I've done miles of vinyl, T111, stick of every type, post and beam, log, tf, cabinets, furniture, trim. I needed to feed us more than my ego. I have done a little timberframing but I am no simple joiner.  The guys that take a class in timberframing and open up a construction company, that's like watching a season of This Old House and calling yourself a builder. Take the time to learn the trade, then start branching out, who knows, you might be exposed to something you never thought of.

Then at 40 you become a contractor and you forge a new set of chains. All that other crap I said to study above. You're now running a business, the client is silly, a wet behind the ears BO is shouting, and the new kid is blissfully miscutting something over there. He'll get there if he opens up that mind and sticks to it .

[logman]

I was in the same situation when I started in Maryland.  The only timber frame company close to me just closed its doors.  I took a 3 week apprenticeship since I was going to build my own timber frame.  The first day I was there I knew this was something I liked and could make a living doing.  I used my house as a model and got my first 3 jobs that way.  The only thing I had built prior to that was a log cabin which indirectly led me to timber framing.  The fact that there aren't any companies close to you may be a good thing.  If you worked for one you may be hesitant to ever leave to go on your own.  When I moved to NC I got a job at a timber frame company with the intention of going back out on my own once we found the right property to work from.  That was right at the height of the building bubble and anything we could afford wasn't workable.  When the economy collapsed I ended up getting laid off along with a few others.  They actually did me a favor because I may not have left on my own.  I chose to be a timber framer and not just the owner of a timber frame company.  My late wife helped me but we never hired any employees.  It has been a great ride and the only regret is that I didn't discover it when I was younger.  I take that back the other regret is that my late wife didn't get to go to Colorado when I got a frame to do out there.  It was in the area that we were thinking about moving to before we moved to NC.

[Mainecoast]

 

 I’m 33yrs old and I dropped out of college to start building.

Regarding your area..take a look at what people spend on. In my eyes timberframing is a luxury item. It’s not a needed expense but some people must have one. If you live in an economically depressed area I’d take that into account.

Do you have any experience in building at all? If not I can’t imagine getting into a building trade without some on site work under the direction of highly skilled and experienced builders. They essentially pay you to learn.

I build now on my own and have been supporting a family of 7 for years now. I’m unsure I could make it souly as a timber framer here and I live in a very affluent area..like really affluent. I’ve done everything from removing a door and fitting window, replacing rotting framing and fixing the leaks the hack left before me, built whole kitchens, built ins, book cases that cost 12k+, furniture

 

 

 

 and I get a timber frame project here and there. Not only do I do the frame..I fit the frame to the existing house and I finish it all off.

I would have someone pay you to learn and be picky with who you work for. Make sure you take it seriously and slowly accumulating tools and knowledge.

I dream of timber framing only but I’d be worried that I would end up bored after a few years.

I was having a conversation with an older woodworker who built a TF pergola for about 130k.. he agrees with me wide skill set, variable work projects and try to master your self.

Not all carpenters/builders do particle board stick builds..I’ve only hung vinyl siding one time in my life..for 2 days.. the other wise we were building high end stuff.

Also I’m not saying any of this to brag or anything else like that..just perspective

[logman]

The thing is you don't have to just depend on the area you live in.  I have done very little work locally and that is fine with me.  I don't mind traveling.  I have one in Idaho, Florida, Virginia and maybe Vermont this year.  

[Jim_Rogers]

Drake:
When I took my second timber frame class, a student asked the instructor: "how can I get into the timber framing business?" 
His reply was to cut a frame. Put it out on a busy street and sell it. Put the pegs in just enough to hold it together. And then push them out and take it apart and move it to the customer's location, and reassemble.

i did that with my first frame:



 

I took pictures of it and put it on a sheet of paper with pull off tags on the bottom.

I put that flyer on bulletin boards around my county. 

After a while that frame sold, and I delivered it and enclosed it for the customer:



 

I had one customer take a tag and then call me and say: "that's a nice frame but I want something bigger. Can you do that?"
I said sure, and that's how you can get going in the timber framing business.

Jim Rogers

[Mainecoast]

Logman how do you or how do your clients find you from that far away? I’ve always thought it would be cool to travel and raise a frame I cut at home..but I tend to work super local..my longest commute has been about 22 minutes from my door. Pretty nice but traveling would be killer! Depending on location


I’d still highly recommend acquiring a broader skill set..being about to build hand made furniture, timber frames, cabinets, and well rounded carpentry skills almost guarantees income and food on the table for family. 

[logman]

I have a very basic website but it's all I've ever needed.  The designer I use also sends me jobs to quote.  I've put up frames in some nice places, Montana, Colorado, Texas, the NC coast and mountains just to name a few.  I also advertise on the Barn Pages and have gotten a few jobs from that.  I'm really only gone a few weeks total out of the year, the rest is in the shop.  It really is a great life.

[Brad_bb]

At 24, I'd definitely want to work with a good timberframe company for a while to learn a lot more - skills, good practices, working with people etc.  If you're a one or two man show that's one thing, but if you're a bit bigger like a a half dozen guys or more, the owner seems to end up chasing business, working with the clients, running the business, and is not involved in actually cutting/working on timberframes.

At your age, with a baby, I would think a steady income is a real consideration, if you want to stay married.  I understand the pull and need to do something creative or crafty, but having a kid in those critical years, sometimes you need to be steady.  I often think that GOOD electricians and plumbers are always in demand.  Guys who are really detailed, very neat with their work, don't cut corners and are respected by the other trades are invaluable.  We have been using guys like that.  Their work in looks like OCD people were doing it.  Whey want all their stuff tied up, labeled, evenly spaced, thier work is beautiful to look at.  Boy if you could apprentice under those guys enough to be good, then go do your timberframing and if it got too rough, go back to that trade....  Just thinking how to make yourself  recession proof.  Always be the pleasant guy for others to work with.

[Mainecoast]

Hmm maybe my site isn’t specific enough so when searching timber frames it doesn’t come up..again I usually just get local stuff.

Wonder if joining the guild would be worth while for job leads. Your set up sure does sound nice!

You have a designer design the frames? I tend to do all of that on my own as well. I’ve designed everything I’ve built since being self employed. I chat with the clients and brainstorm and build what I see.

I’d agree to working with a small detailed crew. I’m serious my background in cabinets/woodworking made the step to timber framing much much easier. Once I realized I just have to remove the wood I outlined it seemed straight forward.

To be honest I’ve started another thread about plumbing..I’ve been chatting with my old plumber friend about buying his business or working under his license part time so when he’s done i pick it up. We’re talking $80 per hour vs $150 per hour and plumbers work is higher on the priority than some sweet dovetailed frame or bookcase. Those things can wait but the sink has to be fixed. 

[logman]

The Guild still gets some leads but not like the old Timber Frame Business Council got.  You would be listed which would probably get you some work.  

[Old Greenhorn]

..........
 They want all their stuff tied up, labeled, evenly spaced, thier work is beautiful to look at.  Boy if you could apprentice under those guys enough to be good,................

Brad, that was very eloquently stated and as spot on as a person could be. My Dad always said "Never work with a plumber who doesn't wipe his sweat joints, he's a slob." What he was alluding to, in a higher sense was that the person had no pride in his work and it was a 'tell' that you couldn't depend on his work in the long run. My Dad detested sloppy work and I have been cursed with that same thought to this day. It's how he trained me up.
 Finding those 'good guys' (true craftsman) is hard these days, but they are out there. If you can attach yourself to one, you are in good shape. It may be tough to hang in with them because they are demanding, seem to be obsessed with stupid little things, and incessant, but THAT is why they are as good as they are and that is why they will always be in demand, trusted, and respected. Hopefully a young person will pick up on that and understand that obsession, it would serve them well.

[Don P]

I agree with a lot of what has been said. But also, read the client. When was the last time the op checked in and how much time has been spent here reading about what he wants to do? 

[Don P]

I came in off the road shortly after the turn of the century. Building codes and enforcement were becoming a pain. One inspector wanted a bribe, the next wanted my hide. I was holding contractor's licenses in 4 states and insurance was becoming a real pain to maintain. On one job I hired a portable sawmiller, no insurance. I inquired of my agent whether I could carry him under mine for the job, I was being required to make sure everyone was insured. Their response was to drop me, in mid job. I was shut down and scrambling.

So I'm curious, those of you who sell and work outside of your area,  or those who design and sell their own designs... how are you doing it? Are you licensed, insured or just a wing and a prayer?

[peakbagger]

My two cents, in Northern NH,VT, Western Maine,I have met a lot of ex timberframers. They all loved the work and had the skills and had plenty of work in season (they usually work the ski resorts in the winter or freezing their butt off in a barn or old warehouse prefabing up frames until spring).  It worked as long as they were single or married with no kids. Once kids were involved, they needed benefits (health insurance) and they ended up finding work that came with benefits or making sure that their spouse got them. A couple of them became teachers so they could have the summer off to keep framing. Many of them ended up with spouses who have nursing degrees as a nurse can always get a job in most areas and the jobs usually come with full benefits. I know a couple of folks that just married professional woman who pay the bills and regard the husbands job as a "hobby". They usually got to take a few years off being "Mr. Mom" once the kids were born instead of day care until the kids get in school.

[Mainecoast]

Regarding the ex timberframers...you can find that in anything..people who can only keep the business going under exact conditions. There are many long term timber-framers in Maine as well. I was once told "once it's been 3 years, consider yourself in business" alluding to its easy to make it a year..but very few make it to 3. Persistence is key..and being a detail oriented craftsman also good communication skills

[DrakeTruber]

Wow, amazingly insightful responses from some awesome forum members here. I apologize for my very late response. Jim, awesome idea to peg the structure loosely in place to get that first project sold. For me, the tough part is finding the time outside of work to learn the skills I need.

When I read through the posts (and failed to respond), Brad and Don's emphasis on a steady income resonated, so I chose to spend the year doing residential plumbing. Plumbing was a pretty satisfying job, but I finally got sick of the tight crawl spaces, fiberglass etc and have been craving a job outdoors with fresh air. I just put in my two week notice and am going to pursue forestry with a local logging company. Once again, thank you all for your feedback.