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Log prices

Started by Firewoodjoe, August 24, 2020, 07:18:21 PM

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Iwawoodwork

One of the few plusses at this time to being old and retired is still have a steady base income ,feel for those who are still trying to make a $$$$.  I don't have to saw if weather is cold, wet, or too hot. I have plenty of my own wood ( Doug Fir ) on my place here in C.G. OR. and lots of large, 10" to 36" juniper (ERC?) on our acreage near Bonanza, OR, so plenty to saw at no cost. feel pretty fortunate.

mudfarmer

Quote from: Hogdaddy on December 02, 2020, 11:29:04 AM
Any new news, besides lumber prices are too high and log prices are too low?
They are sure taking "buy low, sell high" literally and to new heights

ehp

hard maple is very good and still climbing here, red oak is ok but sure should be higher , red oak veneer is starting to sell ok now, wo is good and walnut 

livemusic

Quote from: Ed_K on November 13, 2020, 08:58:17 AM
Just got the 3rd quarter stumpage report from the U of Ma. Prices on the stump have gone up considerably. W/oak went from $75. to $200. Cherry $50. to $175. Sugar maple $175. to $300. Yellow Birch $40. to $175. Black birch up $5. Lot of others from 5 to 45. Even Hemlock came back on board at $30. All prices MBF.
Holy cow, that is an amazing variance in price from low to high. Sheesh, that def gives proof when one has the general strategy of not selling your timber unless you know it's an up market. That's worse than the oil business, lol.
~~~
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O.R.Birr

What's the price of sawdust nowadays?  I know my kitchen cabinets are made of it. Here in Wisconsin, farmers are buying semiloads of it for their cattle bedding.  A farm I drove truck for made their own and sold it to other farms.  I think to the tune of $150 to the ton.  Sounds better than pulpwood or as good as sawlog prices.  The bigger farms need it for milk cows or they get more infections in their udders.  Anyone have anything to share on this?  Don't quote me on the price per ton.

O.R.Birr

Sorry, I did not mean to highjack the post.  Probably a better question for the milling forum guys.  

Walnut Beast

I'm sure Southside knows the answer to your question when he gets on here

mike_belben

Definitely got a decimal point in the wrong spot on that one. 
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Southside

Green sawdust typically brings in the range of $30 - $60 / ton, depending on the time of year, buying competition, wood type, trucking distance, and style of trailer needed to truck it.  Live bottoms going to a farm command a higher price than possum bellies at a pulp mill being dumped from a truck dumper.  

Most guys don't want green sawdust in a dairy barn because it's an invitation for mastitis.  Dry shavings are usually preferred.  For the same reasons above that might get you into the $80 - $100 per ton range, but then guys look hard at sand bedding because you can only afford shavings for the calves, calving area, and hospital pen at that price.  

If guys have pack barns for the winter up north they might be using green sawdust, and a lot of it, to keep the carbon / ammonia levels in check, then dig out in the spring.  
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Cub

Saw log and verneer prices have finally improved around here. Basswood and ash are back to where it was and so is red oak. Not sure about maple. However the pulp market is still horrible. Mills still have everyone on quota. It's gotten better. But probably won't see any real improvement until all the wood from the Wisconsin rapids verso mill closing gets through the pipeline. That could take some time yet. But at least there's some positive around here finally. 

quilbilly

$800 for medium quality DF here 6"+

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Woodfarmer

Regarding measuring and bucking logs. Ontario log rule and 24' log. Very little taper.
8'@16", 8'@15" and 8'@14"=212bf
12'@16" and 12'@14"=213bf
When selling for export, the buyer always wanted the butt log cut at 12', whereas the private buyer wants all 8' logs. 

ehp

that all depends on whom your selling to and what type of trees , everyone is different , some guys want 8 ft 6 inch logs some do not but you should know where that tree is going before it hits the ground and most buyers will be in doyle scale , no one uses ontario log rule 

Woodfarmer

I don't know why anyone would sell logs by the Doyle. It gives a large over-run to the buyer especially on smaller logs and overly large logs too.
The fellow itself to in Peterborough uses Ontario log rule.

Ianab

Quote from: Woodfarmer on December 25, 2020, 08:09:50 PMI don't know why anyone would sell logs by the Doyle. It gives a large over-run to the buyer especially on smaller logs and overly large logs too.


I think it's because it's effectively adjusting the value of the log depending on size. The mill pays "full price" for the optimum sized logs. Large and smaller logs are more work or time to process, so they effectively pay less for them. 

Locally logs are bought by the ton, but there are about 6 size grades with different prices. Small logs are slower to process, and produce lower quality lumber, so the mill pays less per ton. Likewise over-size logs have a limited market too, and their value per ton drops off too. 

Having a scale that varies depending on size achieves a similar result, while having only one "price".  
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ehp

its because pretty much everything ends up in the USA if its veneer , but also remember if your logs are over 20 inches on top end you gain on the scale over ontario log rule . I average 9,000 to 10,000 feet per load on dolye 

Woodfarmer

On a 16' log.    Int.        ON.          Scrib.         Doyle

16".                 180.       162.         160.          140
20".                 290.       261.         280.          256
24".                 425.       384.         400.          400

I think I like International best. Realistically around here we're not getting very many logs at 16' greater than 20", the odd one but not many.
So I lose on avg. 20 bf per log, that adds up as most I sell is in the 16-18" range using Doyle.
The load that went out today was Ontario Rule, next time it will probably be Doyle.
I should add, this load was going for live edge slab, so half the kerf and not as much waste I figure so I don't feel bad selling in ON rule.
               

stavebuyer

For everyone getting "shafted" on Doyle; Buyers kind of know how various scales yield and how the talk at the coffee shop gets down to how much " my logs brought more than yours". 2x4=8 and so does 4x2=8. Logs are only worth "x" to the buyer. Demand more scale footage and you will get  less per unit. Really can't work any other way.

I buy stave logs from one mill who specializes in sawing ties. He buys on Doyle but knows how the scales benefits him and passes that on to his loggers through a ridiculous liberal reading of the ruler and ignoring of any defects. 

Veneer buyers often taken the opposite approach. They pay big per foot, but by the time they scale the narrow way and cut a 10' back to 9' the real world average is much lower than the scale ticket shows.

As a seller, you need to be just as familiar with the log ruler as the buyers and sell to the market that pays the most dollars. The bank doesn't care how close the footage was or what the load averaged. Only money gong into your account is the $$ total.






mike_belben

Scrap isnt much different than logs.  What makes the logger or the scrapper more money is there being more sawmills or scrapyards in the area competing for your product.  If theres only one buyer then he gets to tell ya what he'll pay. Take it or leave it. 



 Dont like it? Buy a mill or pound sound.  Such is life. 
Praise The Lord

Corley5

Different price list for each scale.  Want to sell on Scribner Dec. C?  The buyer presents that list and so on.  That's how it's done here.  It's all adjusted so the check is for the same amount no matter the scale used.
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ehp

Ontario log rule is very good on smaller logs and allows for taper . . But when you saw the log into lumber the mill gains a average of 30% plus on the log scale . On dolye the mill gains a lot more on small logs . 

Woodfarmer

Ed, what would you recommend for the Ontario market? The majority of what I cut on a 12' log is in the 12-18" range.

ehp

thats all depends on where its going and what it is , lots of veneer buyers hate 12 ft logs , they want 9 ft 6 inch , 8ft 6 inch and some take 10 ft 6 inch . If the logs are going state side the scale will be dolye.    You got to look at what your getting paid and in what dollars, usa or canadian. Hard maple that goes USA side starts at $2500/1000 in usa coin and that has to be the very bottom they will take , Good normal stuff right now average $4500/1000 usa up here and great stuff is above that . I have a good buddy thats starting to cut this week just north of you about an hour or so, He sent me the price list the mill up there offered him as he is mainly cutting hard maple , He is a good logger as I have worked with him before and his Dad . They offered him top grade sawlog in maple $750/1000 and they had 5 grades down to $200/1000 , veneer started at a a buck a ft up to a max of 4 bucks a ft all canadian coin , then I showed him my price list and his logs will go south now . Like I tell most people , cutting the tree is the easy part. Selling the tree is the hard part . Do not burn any bridges as you need every mill at some point but learn what each mill/buyer wants and work with them, you do that and you will not have to sell your logs as they will be phoning you looking for certain logs that they need . Unless your selling rotory veneer to the north which pays ok if thats what your logs real grade is but believe me if your logs are top grade stuff they will just flip them and make the money you should of

ehp

now one thing is if your tree is good enough to have 2 high grade veneer logs in it leave it together and sell as one log , Cause the high grade guys only want the butt log 

nativewolf

I can second @EHP posts on calling and getting the most for your effort.  Also on lengths.  Most veneer is a 9' market.  10' is fine and 8' 6" the bare minimum.  They don't want 12' and if you cut a 12 they will simply pay for it and then cut back and gain an inch in diameter and have the same volume. The message takeaway is to watch your taper.  If a 10' log is 20" and a 9' log is 21" than cut a 9' log and you have gained a free foot of wood to sell to someone else as a sawlog.  

I will comment on long veneer logs.  The buyers for long veneer logs are often Japanese buyers, they are specifically looking for long logs, 21' and 20' WO is something they pay more for.  We've had $6+ straight through on long rift quality WO.  

Word of caution.  Hard maple veneer pricing seems to be much lower in WV area than in Canada.  If I had hard maple that was nice, in WV, I would be bringing in a buyer from Canada or sending logs to canada.  Of course, it might be a quality issues..I don't know.  
Liking Walnut

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