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Touching up the blade on a buzz saw

Started by CTPhil, November 17, 2019, 07:54:43 PM

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CTPhil

Hello Everyone,

I just bought a 3 point hitch buzz saw for cutting a large pile of old fence rails. The saw hasn't been used much, but the blade could use a light filing, probably for the first time. My question is about which surface of the tooth tip to file, with the file in the gullet, or just on top?

Thanks!


Wood Shed

CTPhil,

My Dad bought a buzz saw just like yours at least 30 years ago and I ended up with it after he passed.  We used it for many years always with the original blade.  I had the opportunity to ask an Amish sawyer how to sharpen the blade.  He showed me an anvil he used that had a 1/4 bevel ground across the end.  He laid the blade on the anvil and lined a tooth (tip) up with the bevel then hit the tooth with his hammer leaving a slight set in the tooth.  Then he skipped a tooth and continued around the blade.  After flipping the blade over he did the same to the other side.  He told me not to try to use a file on that bade.

I never tried this on my own,  but is what I was told.



  
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek Proverb

Wood Shed

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek Proverb

Ivan49

Quote from: Wood Shed on November 18, 2019, 06:10:12 AM
CTPhil,

My Dad bought a buzz saw just like yours at least 30 years ago and I ended up with it after he passed.  We used it for many years always with the original blade.  I had the opportunity to ask an Amish sawyer how to sharpen the blade.  He showed me an anvil he used that had a 1/4 bevel ground across the end.  He laid the blade on the anvil and lined a tooth (tip) up with the bevel then hit the tooth with his hammer leaving a slight set in the tooth.  Then he skipped a tooth and continued around the blade.  After flipping the blade over he did the same to the other side.  He told me not to try to use a file on that bade.

I never tried this on my own,  but is what I was told.



  
That would add set to the blade. When filing file the inside of the tooth. If you file off the top it makes the gullet of the tooth smaller so it does not carry the sawdust thru and will cut slower

47sawdust

I have the same saw.I just sharpen the top with a flat file.I also have a set that is designed for that specific saw.
Don't know where you live but Henniker Saw in Henniker N.H. has equipment for joining,sharpening and setting the blade.
The saw makes quick work of limb wood and slabs.Be careful and keep the area around the saw clear of your off cuts.It is very dangerous when a small nubbin ends up in the wrong place and goes flying.
Especially dangerous for anyone helping or watching.
 I can send you a picture of the set,they are sometimes available on Ebay.I could also mail you mine.It only gets used every 5 years.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Al_Smith

I've got a 30" also but I haven't used it in  decades .This one can either be staked down and flat belted or 3 point hitch mounted .When I did use it it was belted to an Oliver HG crawler .
You can use a flat file but they do make a blade file that does not have teeth on the sides  ,only the flats .The setting tool can often be found on e-bay .I have both but frankly no idea where they are hiding at .

Believe you me these things can really make the wood but just be very careful because they can take an arm off in less time than it takes to type that fact in this post .Not only that if you let the drops pile up behind the blade and it catches one it can fling it hard enough to break a leg .Some have blade guards and some don't .Safer with .

Don P

Generally just the face, the gullet side of a tooth gets filed until it needs real reshaping. Do not make square corners down in the gullet, that should have a smooth round bottom to swirl the dust out. A square notch also gives a crack a place to start. Can you get a clear closeup of a couple of teeth?

CTPhil

This is the pile I'll be working on.  By the time I collect all of the rails it will be almost double in size.  More softwood than hardwood, but it really burns great!  And no splitting. :) 


 

CTPhil

Quote from: Don P on November 18, 2019, 08:24:03 AM
Generally just the face, the gullet side of a tooth gets filed until it needs real reshaping. Do not make square corners down in the gullet, that should have a smooth round bottom to swirl the dust out. A square notch also gives a crack a place to start. Can you get a clear closeup of a couple of teeth?
Yes, will do.

CTPhil


Don P

Just the gullet face to get that tip back to sharp. I don't know if the blueing is from running dull or if the tip is hardened, if a file won't sharpen it then it'll take a diamond stick or grinder to sharpen. Is there a repeat of that negative angled tooth or is it just a damaged one? 


CTPhil

I think there was a damaged tooth.  Another issue is that the blade "waves" at speed and sometimes ticks the guard.  I've been told that the blade needs to be rehammered.

Don P

That blue is probably just from running dull and hot then. You can probably file it but it needs to go to a sawdoc. If you don't know of one call one of the circle sawmills in the area and they should be able to point you to one.

Weekend_Sawyer

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but if you look at the sponsor section to the left, Menominee Saw can fix you up.

Jon
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47sawdust

Henniker Saw Shop




 





Saw sharpening service in Henniker, New Hampshire
Address: 105 Newton Rd, Henniker, NH 03242
Phone: (603) 428-3751
Looks like your in CT.,not out of the question to Fedex the blade to them.That's what I didd
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Al_Smith

It's not like a buzz saw blade can be taken  as if it were a $120 Freud finish cut carbide insert  blade on a table saw .It only cuts fire wood not quarter sawn white oak .
It should not be that hard to renew the angles on a few teeth .With a file ,takes a long time .With a die grinder maybe not so long IMO .

ButchC

 As Al Smith eluded  the needs of sharpening a buzz saw blade and a mill blade are as different as night and day. For the last 15 years I put about 50 hours a year on my buzz saw and hand file sharpen it average twice a year when sawing slab from the local mills. I make no claim to expert status but have done it for a while and know what works. A person should not be scared away from the job due to not knowing how to do it exactly right by the book.   I file the top because it is easier, push the guard back and place stick in a gullet down against the table. You push the file towards the set. In other words the set should be away from the handle. Do all of one side then do the other. A good, preferably new mill bastard at least 12" long is what you need, an old junk file makes the job miserable. May sound simplistic but sharp is sharp and dull is dull, feel the point. 5-6 strokes with a new file. To check the set you place a piece of wood on the table and cut. You should see a groove wide enough that you can wiggle the piece a little without pinching. Mine cuts almost 1/4 wide. I change the set with an 18"  crescent wrench over the teeth. Cave man right?  But unlike a blade for cutting lumber it is pretty much immaterial if all are set the same although you don't want to be purposely sloppy about it. My unperfect methods allow me to cut red Oak slab as fast as I can slam it through, no need to be any more scientific about it, which I guess is my main point to this ramble.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

CTPhil

I guess my plan is to just file the teeth with a new 12" file.  I'm staying away from a die grinder, knowing me I'd surely take too much off with big differences from tooth to tooth.  For now I'm just going to ignore the blade waving, I've not ever heard that there is any danger of the blade grenading or anything like that.  As soon as the blade meets wood it runs true it seems.  :)

I got a decent deal on the saw I think ($400), but if I need to put hundreds into the blade I'm going to have to do a major rethink.

Al_Smith

You could probably use a "Dremel" type grinder with a side cutting stone like used to grind a chainsaw chain if it gets rocked .Just keep it moving so it doesn't blue the steel .Just on those back slanted teeth to straighten them back back up .Get them all tuned and use a file after that IMO . 

ButchC

Blades will only run true at a given RPM range.  A sharp blade that diameter doesn't have to be run real fast in order to cut fast. Try some different speeds.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

thecfarm

My Father sharpened a saw like that. I might of been around 14 when someone wanted it more than we did. We went to The Farm one day and it was gone. The bearings was pretty bad in it. I can still hear my Father say,they will be replacing the bearings in that saw quick. He always kept oil in the cup above each bearing.
But he sharpened it with just a flat saw. I can see him do it now. I was not allowed around it when it was running. I do remember the zing of it. I can still hear it. But as I said before on here,my Father grew up with buck saws and axes. Either you learned how to keep your tools sharp or you worked way harder than you had too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

For that matter my father also had a frame mounted buzz saw on a Farmall F 14 .I was too little back then to help .He got the drops from a sawmill for free and cut up enough to last the best part of the winter in just a few days .Great big pile of them fed to  a gravity furnace in the basement.Put out a lot of heat .I might have been four at the time on the farm near  Caledonia Ohio .I remember it though over 65 years ago .I also remember the stacks and stacks of stickered hard wood every where .What he ever figured out what it was to be  used for I never knew but there was a bunch of it  .

Don P

Quote from: CTPhil on November 19, 2019, 03:53:32 PM
I guess my plan is to just file the teeth with a new 12" file.  I'm staying away from a die grinder, knowing me I'd surely take too much off with big differences from tooth to tooth.  For now I'm just going to ignore the blade waving, I've not ever heard that there is any danger of the blade grenading or anything like that.  As soon as the blade meets wood it runs true it seems.  :)

I got a decent deal on the saw I think ($400), but if I need to put hundreds into the blade I'm going to have to do a major rethink.

Since I have a circle mill I know a sawdoc already so that kind of changes how I look at something like that. Like many he is full service, I'll be down there within a week or so to pick up planer blades I had dropped off. I had sharpened them by hand a few times and he'll get them back to correct. Flattening that blade out and getting it set up would be under a hundred I imagine. I'm not worried about the blade grenading but if it is hitting the guard I'm more worried about it snagging that up. You know what you're seeing just be safe. The blade was more than likely originally tensioned to run at 540 but it got hot.

CTPhil

Quote from: ButchC on November 19, 2019, 07:43:09 PM
Blades will only run true at a given RPM range.  A sharp blade that diameter doesn't have to be run real fast in order to cut fast. Try some different speeds.
I had wondered about that, I'll try it.

CTPhil

OK, I'm a little dense, but I think I'm finally seeing what others are seeing.  The face of the tooth from gullet to tip is supposed to be straight and at least the one in the pic is canted back at the tip, am I getting it?  So perhaps the blade was misused somewhat by the previous owner.

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