Good afternoon,
There is a CL listing advertising two cherry logs in my area and I am not sure what would be a fair offer. This would be my first time purchasing logs to saw as so far I have been fortunate enough to pick up free logs to get some milling experience. My concern is being fair without overpaying. The logs are large diameter, 32", and 8' and 9' in length.
I would like to grab these logs but the owner is asking $250.00 a log. Not sure I want to spend that kind of money but would like some guidance as to whether or not that price is unreasonable.
Thanks,
Fred
When it comes to yard trees my policy is I will take them, but I will not pay for them.
My opinion is that that price is too high even delivered.
Gerald
based on Doyle scale and "IF" that 32 inch is the small end of each log and "IF" they are good, straight logs that figures out to 833 board ft (Doyle scale) at roughly 30 cents a board ft. That's about what cherry saw logs are going for around here assuming log truck quantities. Given risk of metal in yard trees and having to load/haul yourself honestly it comes down to what its worth to you. Personally Im with GAB on this one, but if I had easy load/haul abilities and really wanted those particular logs i might go 100-120 tops as those are gonna take some time on most bandmills and you assume all the risk. You might check a local mill to see what you could buy a couple logs for at a time and use that as your basis too.
Well, it sounds more like to me .60+ cents a bdft per log and if they are metal free, then that could work out just fine, even if, and this is the tricky part, even if you hit metal, there is a good chance its on on face, maybe two faces only, so, a metal detector may be a good idea before negotiating a price, I've tore up some mighty fine bands trying to get the good from what was an (heirloom) log,, it could be a jackpot, and it could be a 60-80 buck burn for a "?" mark,,
I have seen ads like that and if it looked like it might be good logs (Cherry or walnut - so far no other wood I was interested in) I'd reply telling them they could bring them to me and I'd saw them on shares. I figure the worst he could say is no. If it is good logs potentially you could both do well on that deal.
BTW - I've never seen cherry that big. I wonder if he sealed the end when he bucked them to length. My cherry checks quickly and badly.
$50 a stick never more. If there was a better offer it would already be gone. And that is delivered to your mill to roll or lift on.
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on December 04, 2017, 06:12:37 PM
I have seen ads like that and if it looked like it might be good logs (Cherry or walnut - so far no other wood I was interested in) I'd reply telling them they could bring them to me and I'd saw them on shares. I figure the worst he could say is no. If it is good logs potentially you could both do well on that deal.
BTW - I've never seen cherry that big. I wonder if he sealed the end when he bucked them to length. My cherry checks quickly and badly.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/34089/IMG_0040.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1512431038)
Well how is this?
Native,
I don't know. Is that a clipboard for scale on between the 2 forks? I can see where that butt could easily be that big but I sure don't see how you are going to keep it intact unless you cut from the top down and use a crane and such. Even then I don't see how you can keep slabs from the butt log together. If you do I want to see the results.
Good luck and be careful.
Too much $$$ Go less than ½ And del.
Yeah that is going to be a challenge and that is a legal pad. I've never seen anything like it, huge just does not describe it, that was a find today.
We'll cut the stems, thankfully we have access to a crane. Then we'll somehow get the stump cut. Should be fun to get slabbed.
Ok, I'll post some of the other cherry we saw today, 30" or so in several trees. Going to rain tomorrow so it might be Wed or Thursday.
Quote from: Peter Drouin on December 04, 2017, 07:05:38 PM
Too much $$$ Go less than ½ And del.
Yeah if they are nice logs 250 for the two would be ok if they were delivered. We are getting .60 to .80 /bdft in good logs in cherry (export pricing) so that would be a better price if delivered. Thing is they don't make lots of 30" cherry great table top stuff.
If that butt log separates (probable), I would try to glue it back together and slab it with extra thickness. Maybe 3-4 ratchet straps to be removed and replaced behind the blade as cut progresses.
Don't know if it would work, but worth a shot. I see a potentially amazing piece of furniture if successful.
Bottom 5' is junk, I can see the crack on the left. It will have a black line, crack, It will fall apart.
Good wood is above the clipboard.
It happens...I was asked about buying some standing trees in a small patch right in the middle of a farmer's field. Went with low expectation and discovered a 38" cherry which was VERY straight and lovely, and 36" black walnut which appears sound and straight as an arrow for 20'. ;D
Hopefully they aren't hollow or full of metal. :-\
Not far from that, just looked at a sycamore that is 65+" diameter and straight for at LEAST 40'. :o Lovely quartersawing goodie!
Taking them down this weekend. Will post pix.
I'm a hobbyist, not a pro. My first and last log purchase was 2 walnut logs from the same tree that had been in a barn for 30 yrs. I paid $100 and got a lower log full of metal and bugs. 20" X 8' to firewood. Upper log was okay and got a couple nice gunstocks so broke even. From now on, if it's free, it's for me. Gary
For me, it's a "no risk, no reward" situation...especially since I'm usually seeking the bigger and higher-end material.
A metal scanner is cheap and it a pretty good approximation of whether or not there's metal. It catches most, but some gets by. I recently quartersawed a 40" white oak and rolled snake-eyes. It exhibited metal in the end of the log, but nothing on scan. I bought it from a stand-up log dude, who will make it up to me, but still painful. Labor is expensive.
Bottom line, is that the risk is usually always on the dude who opens up the log. Only you can decide the risk:reward ratio.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_7909.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1512301254)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_8465.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1512469325)
On the other hand, recently cut this walnut butt-log which had a nail in the very bottom. Once I extracted it, there was some epic material in there, like this 12/4, 22" wide piece that is making my personal stash. :o
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/46676/IMG_7754.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1511741176)
Quote from: PA_Walnut on December 05, 2017, 05:39:32 AM
It happens...I was asked about buying some standing trees in a small patch right in the middle of a farmer's field. Went with low expectation and discovered a 38" cherry which was VERY straight and lovely, and 36" black walnut which appears sound and straight as an arrow for 20'. ;D
Hopefully they aren't hollow or full of metal. :-\
Not far from that, just looked at a sycamore that is 65+" diameter and straight for at LEAST 40'. :o Lovely quartersawing goodie!
Taking them down this weekend. Will post pix.
Do take photos! Those big Sycamore are usually hollow around here. Good luck with them all.
Like the others said, overpriced. There is a reason it's on CL, and it's probably because it's a yard tree that they would not pay to have removed and no mill will buy it. They would have to pay a tree service a hefty fee to get it out of there, so don't be afraid to remind them of that if you choose to go after them.
For perspective I find this video to be quite helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgQHWQoatg
Wow! That is PERFECT!! Just awesome!! Thanks for the laugh.
Quote from: Southside logger on December 05, 2017, 07:16:16 AM
Like the others said, overpriced. There is a reason it's on CL, and it's probably because it's a yard tree that they would not pay to have removed and no mill will buy it. They would have to pay a tree service a hefty fee to get it out of there, so don't be afraid to remind them of that if you choose to go after them.
For perspective I find this video to be quite helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgQHWQoatg
Quote from: Southside logger on December 05, 2017, 07:16:16 AM
Like the others said, overpriced. There is a reason it's on CL, and it's probably because it's a yard tree that they would not pay to have removed and no mill will buy it. They would have to pay a tree service a hefty fee to get it out of there, so don't be afraid to remind them of that if you choose to go after them.
For perspective I find this video to be quite helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTgQHWQoatg
Lol, if only I had seen this video before I paid $100 for a highly valuable black walnut tree, on the condition that I take all of it. By the time I was done I had realized the error of my ways and figured the next time a situation like that came up, I would be the one receiving the money. Lessons learned;)
Quote from: nativewolf on December 04, 2017, 07:24:35 PM
Then we'll somehow get the stump cut. Should be fun to get slabbed.
Wait, so are you chasing the stump to cut it?
Been keeping my eye out for dozer piles and blowdowns, but is digging a stump worth it?
I refuse to cut anything down, other than a log in a forrest. Yard trees are too much risk and not my specialty, so I let others cut them and clean up and I just inspect/purchase the logs after they are on the ground.
Taking them down properly/safely is a unique discipline that's best left to experienced tree men. I'm happy to pay them for the logs, whether it's going into their pocket or the landowner--it's not my concern, other than trying to pay a FAIR price...that's the catch--a FAIR price. Offering $100 for a 600BF walnut log is not fair, yet I hear about it all the time. I desire to that guy who gets the call when the super-prize log comes around.
Had a local small saw dude tell me the other week that he will pay ZERO for logs--ever. "Every single log I have out there is free. I once paid $15 for a large walnut log from a neighbor, but that's it.". Well, his log deck looked about like a firewood pile. Other than that, he wrestles whatever he can onto his mill and just straight saws it 1-2-3. I guess it's
another business model, just not one I'd care to pursue.
Quote from: Crossroads on December 05, 2017, 06:21:42 PM
Lol, if only I had seen this video before I paid $100 for a highly valuable black walnut tree, on the condition that I take all of it. By the time I was done I had realized the error of my ways and figured the next time a situation like that came up, I would be the one receiving the money. Lessons learned;)
You get what you pay for.
10 years ago, we had a guy come into the log yard and bought large sycamore for $800/Mbf. Seems that if you have a market for the material and a means to produce it, you can pay a pretty good price for logs. He had larger mill capacity than we did, but was in the specialty market. We had no access to that market or a desire to develop it, so sycamore was more for sawing low grade material. This guy also went to Europe to buy some logs and paid over $10k for a single log. He had the markets to be able to pay for those logs.
I worked with a guy that had a zero pay plan for his material. His logs were all urban logs. The advantage to the tree guys was that they could unload their material and avoid the tipping fee. He put no controls on what was brought in. Hitting metal was more of an hourly occurrence, even after being scanned. Most of the lumber quality was limited due to the fast growth of yard trees and the poor species. But, there were some logs that were well worth paying for. They wouldn't market the logs out with the erroneous thinking that they could be sold for bigger bucks down the line. Cash flow was a major problem and they went belly up.
When you pay for logs, you have the ability to reject the junk. It opens the door for better logs and better business relationships. Better logs yield better lumber. Better lumber opens up to better markets.
Quote from: TKehl on December 05, 2017, 08:49:05 PM
Quote from: nativewolf on December 04, 2017, 07:24:35 PM
Then we'll somehow get the stump cut. Should be fun to get slabbed.
Wait, so are you chasing the stump to cut it?
Been keeping my eye out for dozer piles and blowdowns, but is digging a stump worth it?
Oh, by stump I meant the area above the ground but below the multi-stems. The stems are 20-24" diameter, the problem with the stump, which I'd slab if it does not split, is that it is actually huge. More oblong so maybe we can get it that way. We mostly cut with 20" bars, all those huge walnuts, 20" bars and some of those are 36-40 at the base. Anyhow, back to yard cherry...posts by Ron and PaWalnut are spot on.
For me it just depends on the log. I'd pay $1 per ft if it was great cherry.
Walnut now is a different animal. Sawmills are paying as high as $8 per ft and $1500 on the stump. Walnut is flat out crazy now.
I haven't seen the OP, Dudaks, back on this thread....
He hasn't said what his situation is, or what he is wanting to do with the logs. Is he trying to make a business and selling the wood? Or just for his own woodworking?
I would consider myself a hobbyist because so far (3+ years)I only produce for myself. There isn't any commercial logging near me to be able to buy logs so I get them where I can. I buy a lot from a large firewood business who works with all the tree services. He sets aside all the better logs for me. I pay .35/BF for Cherry, plut $100 delivery fee for every load of logs. Some of his logs are yard logs, and some are rural logs. It hasn't been too bad really. It averages out in my favor over all my logs. I don't mind if I hit a nail or two in Walnut. It's worth it. Cherry can also be worth it, especially if it's curly. I'd pay a bit more for larger logs like that. You can slab them and sell for higher prices, especially if you've got a way to dry it properly. I'm guessing the OP doesn't have a way to move the logs. If he does, then
Also they normally need a full load of Walnut to get a mill to buy the truck load. If they are this level it may not be worth your time to haggle. At $250 I would make an "any metal" guarantee that they replace with a new stick free of charge.
Good luck.