NEW TRACTOR! , Tires filled?

[uplander]

 Wife agreed we could get a new tractor and even said she would pay for half of it! What a good woman!
Anyways I see there are a lot more options available these days for loading the rear tires.
My main concern is internal corrosion of the wheel rims.
Will windshield wiper fluid cause rust problems?

Who can tell me about the beet juice fluid?

Thanks all!

[Ljohnsaw]

I'd have them tubed then you don't need to worry about the rims rusting.

[beenthere]

I load with WW fluid, but the beet juice is heavier than water. Expensive, but apparently non-corrosive like the WW fluid.
I avoid the calcium, whether tubed or not. Takes but just a pin prick in the tube to leak and then start the corrosion.
But there are a lot of choices to pick from.

[chevytaHOE5674]

What kind of tractor and what are you going to be using it for?

[Saki]

Not sure which of the new options are best, but do know that avoiding the calcium is a good plan of action. Bought an old WD allis once and had a rim so eaten up I was scared to ride it up on the trailer. Has a football sized piece of inner tube poking out where the stem area of the rim used to be. Thought would bust for sure, but it didn't.

If this is a loader tractor and loading the rims is for that purpose, you could also consider making a counterweight that goes on your 3 pt. This neck of the woods a 55 gallon drum filled with concrete or even water, fabricated to have the 3 pt hitch components is a common sight. A 55 gallon drum with those hitch components welded on and filled with water would be somewhere around 450 to 500 pounds. Most do this approach for loader tractors that are used intermittent as a loader, and for other chores routinely.

[thurlow]

You didn't ax this particular question, but here goes;  I'd find out what the tire shops (those who fix tractor tires) in your area are using.  Around here, they ALL switched from CaCl to an alcohol based solution about 20 years ago.  As far as the CaCl, we used it for 40 some-odd years with no problems, but it's much simpler to use what everyone else is using............

[Brad_S.]

After 30 years of fussing with vintage Ford tractors that may or may not started when I needed them, I splurged and bought a new 4x4 Kubota. After going on line and researching tire weights, I had them fill them with beet juice. It is supposed to be the heaviest option available with minimal side effects on either the equipment or the environment. It was a bit pricey but I feel you get what you pay for in the world of equipment.
If you are going to do any plowing or using any implements that will tie up your 3pt so you can't use the barrel weight, you will want the extra weight the filled tires provide for traction.

[Qweaver]

My new property has a lot of steep banks.  Will filling the tires help prevent rollovers?  I have a JD 110, how would I know how much weight filling would add?  I am only about 1000 lbs. away from max on my trailer now.  Actually with the tractor loaded properly the truck is taking a lot of that load off of the trailer, so I have a little more leeway.   I'd like to load the tires if that would give me more traction and rollover protection.
Quinton

[Brad_S.]

I am no tractor expert but I don't see how it would help prevent rollover in any fashion.
Only the rear tires are usually filled. I asked about the fronts as I don't have a loader on it and wanted all the traction I could get but they said filling the fronts, even on a 4wd, offers minimal gain.
I bet a JD dealer could tell you how many gallons it would take to fill the size tire you have and also give you a pounds per gallon weight of the solution you plan to use.

[thurlow]

I have a JD 110, how would I know how much weight filling would add? 
Quinton

How much fluid will my tire hold?   http://www.messicks.com/blog/post/Liquid-Tire-Ballast-Chart.aspx

[beenthere]

I am no tractor expert but I don't see how it would help prevent rollover in any fashion.

Brad
You don't think having weight added down low will help move the center of gravity down as well?

[Qweaver]

Thanks Thurlow. I would be adding over 1000 lbs.  I agree Beenthere,  It would have to help some.  These hills scare me.  My relatives scare me just watching them on these hillsides.  But they do it all the time.  Not me!

[Brad_S.]

I am no tractor expert but I don't see how it would help prevent rollover in any fashion.

Brad
You don't think having weight added down low will help move the center of gravity down as well?

I guess I was thinking more about the type of rollover where the tractor pivots around the axle and comes over the top. Having always owned lighter tractors, that has always been my fear and the first thing I think of when I hear "roll over".
I guess when considering a sideways rollover, it probably would help but to what degree?

[jdonovan]

I would be adding over 1000 lbs.

Ooo you gota ya a big tractor then.  Something 50-60HP+ to have 500lb/each tires.

Another option is cast iron weights that bolt to the rims. A little out of fashion these days, but no way the corrode the inside of the wheels.  :D

Beat juice is nice stuff, but spendy. But its likely to be a one-time expense for you. Not too many hobby tractor users wear out tires before they sell the machine.

My relatives scare me just watching them on these hillsides.  But they do it all the time.  Not me!

just cuz they get away with it doesn't make it smart, or a good idea. Keep that ROPS up, the seat belt on, and the loads down low.

I guess I was thinking more about the type of rollover where the tractor pivots around the axle and comes over the top.

Almost not physically possible if you hook the pull point below the rear axle.

When this usually happens, is when someone uses a 3-point hitch in the lifted position as a pulling point.

I guess when considering a sideways rollover, it probably would help but to what degree?

Tremendous help. Night and day differnet. Loader work that used to cause a 3-wheel turn with unfilled tires, and a heavy implement.  I can now do without an implement on the back. With filled tires + an implement, even better.

[beenthere]

Yup, rollover isn't a backward flip. As said, nothing to do with weight in the tires, but has to do with proper weight on the front end and correct pulling point.

I added spacers to my tractor wheels to set them out further, and the pucker factor is much, much less when on the side hills.

The JD 110 TLB has 17.5 x 24 rear tires, so should take some gallons of fluid.

And Brad, tractors didn't come much safer than the old vintage Fords like the 8N's for stability.    
Pulling logs out on the 3 ph with the log lifted for traction would/could make the front end light and raise up a ways making it necessary to steer using the brakes.  Even stood it up on its rear end a couple times, but usually got someone or two to ride the hood if it seemed to be a problem.

[dutchman]

Qweaver: I run at least 8 different tractors every year.
If side hill roll over is your fear you need to see if you can spread
the rears. Most rims have a tight, and spread position.
One small loader I have I put factory 8" spreaders on right after purchase.
The JD 2010 I run has bars on the rim, they adjust 10".
When they fill tires with fluid they put the valve at 12 o'clock and fill to the top.
2010 took 60 gallon.

[thecfarm]

Any tire place that fills tires should know how much weight to put in them tires. I even have the wife's tractor tires loaded. That is just about a glorified lawn mower. I have the tires loaded on my 40hp NH and the rears are spaced out wide. I perfer something in the tires. The weight is down low,not up in the air behind you.

[uplander]

What kind of tractor and what are you going to be using it for?

It is a Kubota, 4wd. About 40 hp. I will use it to skid logs to my mill in conjunction with an arch. Also will use it move 4-5 chords of firewood out of my woods to the house/barn area of my property.

The terrain is moderately hilly with a couple dry runs to cross when the water is not up.

I will also use the machine for various construction tasks and to move snow in the driveway.

I don't want to have rust problems with the wheels like I have now with the tractor I have.

[uplander]

After 30 years of fussing with vintage Ford tractors that may or may not started when I needed them, I splurged and bought a new 4x4 Kubota. After going on line and researching tire weights, I had them fill them with beet juice. It is supposed to be the heaviest option available with minimal side effects on either the equipment or the environment. It was a bit pricey but I feel you get what you pay for in the world of equipment.
If you are going to do any plowing or using any implements that will tie up your 3pt so you can't use the barrel weight, you will want the extra weight the filled tires provide for traction.

I called the local tire distributor that does farm service and asked about the beet juice. They don't use it and said they use an ethanol based fluid. I am thinking this is just WW fluid and have been told this will eventually cause corrosion problems by others.

Anybody know anything about Kubota's "Rim Guard" product?  I have not yet asked the dealer about these questions.

[jdonovan]

most WW fluid is Water +  Methanol + blue die.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Rim Guard is the brand name for beet juice.

Personally I prefer cast iron wheel weights or suitcase weights mounted to the tractor vs. loaded tires. That way it is easy to add or subtract weight depending on the task at hand, also when you get a flat all your expensive weight doesn't disappear.

If you keep on top of any leaks or flats then you shouldn't have any issues with the wheels rusting out in your lifetime no matter what product you use.

[Al_Smith]

I think it was last summer I spent the better part of a day welding the holes up on one my Fergusens .I own two of those little tractors both of which had calcium in them at one time or another and rusted the rims tubes in them or not .

Now as far as getting a bite in snow,weight or tires won't help you a bit on a little tractor .It's going to take a set of chains if you want to go in the snow .Ag tires are made for getting a toe hold in soft ground not for digging in in frozen ground or deep snow .

[thecfarm]

chevytaHOE5674,how right you are. I did not want to be the first to say it.   ;D  I have a 1954 NAA Ford that still has the calium in the tires.I have the same thing in 2 other tractor tires. Get a leak,you fix it and clean up the rims with soap and water.

[Al_Smith]

I'd imagine more times than not is the "water " valves go bad allowing the calcium to get under over around and through the rims .I think that stuff could rust up things worse that sinking them in the Atlantic ocean for a decade .

They dump that stuff on the roads because it works at temperatures below rock salt .Before the days of better undercoating it could make the frame of an automobile  disappear in a couple years .Many a late 70's Ford broke right into .They didn't have the problem in Arizona though,no ice .

[petefrom bearswamp]

Had beet juice put in when I bought my 85 hp Kubota in 2007 and have not had any problems.
I was told the only potential prob is with freezing in super cold weather.
Pete

[Corley5]

I'd go with cast iron weights.  I've seen a lot of new tractors with cast iron wheels weights the last few years.  If going the fluid route I'd never use chloride.  It's antique technology.  In dealings with old tractors over the years I saw what leaking chloride can do in a very short time.  Rim Guard is what I'd use.  http://www.rimguard.biz/  There are several tire places around here that handle it.

[moosehunter]

I have a 43 hp Kubota. Rears filled with WW fluid and add on cast weights. It will STILL raise a rear wheel with too much in the front end loader!

[beenthere]

Weight, be it fluid in the rear wheels or weights bolted on will only hold the rear end down.
Whereas a ballast box or barrel on the 3 ph will counter balance the load in the bucket or on the FEL.

Better, they say, than just counting on the weight in or on the rear wheels as it relieves the stress on the front axle a bit. 

And as well, there are limits to everything... ;)

[thecfarm]

Depends what you are doing with a tractor. Hard to have a weight on a 3 pt when I need the 3pt winch. I am a firm believer in weight in the tires. Need it low,not 1½ feet in the air. I've heard of some that don't feel comfortable with a loader full of dirt. I questioned them, tires are not loaded. I feel convenient with my tractor. As long as I don't try to pick up a rock about twice what I should be doing.    But a load of dirt is fine. I have to carry a bucket full about 1000 feet of more too.

[Al_Smith]

I've got both wheel weights plus a barrel of concrete on the back of one of the Fergies that has a Davis loader  on it. Without the concrete it just isn't enough weight for a counter balance .I have the weight up high enough I can use the swinging drawbar if I need to pull something .

Although the Davis loaders were used on a lot of them quite frankly they are just a tad too much for that size of tractor .You can lift way more than you can steer .

[red oaks lumber]

 i run wheel weights in the rear on my loader tractor, i took the fluid out of the front tires. i have never came close to even slighty lifting the back end.

[caveman]

When I bought my Kubota M7040 used, it had rear wheel weights and loaded tires.  I do not know what liquid is in the tires (they will never freeze here, so I assume they just have water).  I have operated two similar tractors to mine that did not have the rear wheel weights and loaded tires.  Both of these were much more eventful when using the loader on uneven ground.  I like mine the way it is set up.
Caveman

[beenthere]

i have never came close to even slighty lifting the back end.

:D
As I mentioned, there are limits and yours is the loader. ;)

[chevytaHOE5674]

My hay loader tractor has 500lbs of calcium in each rear tire, 800lbs of wheel weights, and a bunch of suitcase weights on the back as well. I stack 1600lbs+ round bales of hay 3 high in a pyramid and when you lift a bale up to the top I can get the back tires off the ground on occasion if I don't have something on the hitch for ballast.

For loader work you can't have too much weight on the back of the machine. But if your also using the tractor for other things then you don't always want the extra weight. So that is where wheel weights or suitcase weights come in handy as you can add or subtract them as needed.

[red oaks lumber]

 i stack 1200  lb big square bales 10 ft high, no rear tippy at all. the thing with fluid is if you get a flat you cant take the tire to town without alot of hassle, wheel weights stay on the rim so they arent in the way.

[thecfarm]

I have a guy that comes right to The C Farm to work on my tires. They leave the tire right on the rim. Some guy up the road priced them coming to him and taken it off and bringing two tires to another place. The place I use was only $50 more for both tires.He took them off and hassled with them. I did not offer to help.  These was loaded tires.

[chevytaHOE5674]

At this farm I am the tire guy so I have no need to take the tires anyplace. haha

[rocksnstumps]

Had the tires filled on my little tractor this fall with the beet juice RIM GUARD as mentioned. With 17.5 x 24 tires just about 55 to 60 gals to get to the top of the rim (about 75% fill). Added just under 600 lbs each tire as the beet juice is about 10.5 lb/gal. Washer fluid  with alcohol is good to about -20F while the beet juice will start getting slushy but not solid at at -35F according to the tire dealer. No need to add tubes and stuff is supposed to be safe enough that even livestock could drink but smells kinda funky being an organic and their storage tank out in the sun all year. Washer fluid is definetly cheaper at about $1/gal but the winters around here just not a low enough freeze temp.

Pays to ask around on prices since the mom and pop tire place which services a lot of farmers in the area cost was about $350 to fill both rears. The only other authorized place was a larger tractor dealership that wanted just under $600 all told!! Pays to shop around. I called the manufacturer phone number to get the names of nearby distributers

[thecfarm]

I like tubes in tractor tires. I work it in the woods and going over stumps and rocks the tires kinda get abused at times.
Tires,make sure they are 8 ply and the Ag type,the deep narrow cleats,they have much better traction than the wide low cleats.

[petefrom bearswamp]

In addition to loaded tires,  have a Farmi winch on the 3 pt which I guess weighs 600 700 pounds.
I still have to use 4wd when moving heavy Hemlock logs especially when backing up

[DDDfarmer]

Was just looking up calcium mixes.  A calcium mix weights 16 pounds a gallon  the beet juice or windshield washer only weights 10.5 pounds a gallon.  A 18.4-34 tire holds 67 gallons at 75% filled which would be 1072 lbs plus tire and rim weights.   Your 17.5-24 tire would hold 37 gallons at 75% so 388 lbs with beet juice or 592 lbs with calcium.  All our tires are loaded with calcium, get a leak you fix it. It is a messy job to fix a leak or just to add to the tube, but you cant argue with the weight difference. 

[thecfarm]

I have heard that beet juice is a mess too.

[Corley5]

Rim Guard is a sticky mess but it's a non corrosive one that rinses away with water and doesn't kill vegetation 

[thecfarm]

I've had trouble with only 3 tires on my tractor. Everyone was dealt with in my driveway. They pumped the salt out and pumped the salt back in. No plants was injured or hurt during the tire change. I noticed some weeping and had them fixed. Very little fluid was lost.That is the key words. HAD THEM FIXED. I noticed the weeping and called and they was there the next day. Not saying salt is better,just saying I never had any plants die from my tires troubles.

[Larry]

A lot of times calcium will cause the valve stem to leak.  Then the valve stem hole rusts out if you don't fix the stem.  Fix the hole by welding in a piece of metal and drilling a new hole. 

When it's tire change time I want to see my rim.  If it looks bad I take it home and wire brush to remove the rust.  Than it gets two coats of rustoleum.  You oughta hear the tire dealer scream when I pull that trick.

Steep ground my tractor has calcium and wheel weights.  My old 4020 had rear axle weights on also.

[Corley5]

I've had major tire failures more than once involving chloride.  It leaves a large burned spot of vegetation when it's more than a leak  ;)  

[rocksnstumps]

I'm just an occasional tractor user so for those that put lots of hours in a year can see why the calcium has some advantages since can be cheaper since you are removing the tire lots more than I every will and can inspect and address issues. I have about 1500 hours in ten years. Original R4 tires and expect them to last at least another 5-8 years. Never had tires off tractor, they did not have to remove with the beet juice being added since tubes not needed. Actually had them quote calcium and with the added tire labor and cost of tubes I think it was higher than the beet juice.

Not sure on a previous post about weights and volumes. Lots of sources out there of course. I have found several that list 17.5L x 24 tires as 55 gals at 75% fill which also matches my receipt and what I paid for. The 16 lbs/gal must be a very heavy mix for the CaCl2. One site lists 5 lbs CaCl2 per gal water mix is slush free to -53F. That mix would add 600lbs with 55 gals which is very close to beet juice weights (ok their site says 588.5 lbs with 55 gals).

So pick what works for your situation but the claim of a much heavier weight with calcium is only true if you want to really pour the salt in the mix.

[John Mc]

I've got Calcium Chloride (CaCl) in the ties on my NH TC33D.  It's been in there more than 12 years with no problems yet. 

I wanted to do the Rim Guard stuff, but no one in my area carried it at the time (in fact, my inquiries and pushing for it is one of the reasons my tractor dealer started carrying it... just too late for me).  If I ever need to remove a tire, it will be refilled with the Rim Guard. I'll sacrifice a little bit of weight, but less worry about rim corrosion & leaks.

[den]

They put used anti-freeze in my tires, I only payed for labor.
That one way to get rid of it.

[beenthere]

Wouldn't let anyone put used anti-freeze in my tires. You are welcome to do that if you want. ;)

Toxic for one thing.

[Corley5]

I'd rather have chloride than used antifreeze.  That shop saved themselves a disposal bill.

[Peter Drouin]

Or foam , won't go flat and no rust. The next time that's the way I'm going.

[chevytaHOE5674]

With foam you lose the "suspension" that the tire provides. Also since the tire is stiff you lose a lot of traction because the tire can't flex and squat to transfer the power to the ground. And tire changes become a nightmare because you have to cut the tire and foam off the rim.

Have a set of foam filled tires for my skid steer and only put them on if I am doing demo work with lots of sharp pointy things. In normal conditions they ride horrible, wear quickly, and have terrible traction.