Testing the Blade Lube?

[Magicman]

Even though we have no freezing weather anywhere in our forecast, I decided to go ahead and winterize my blade lube.  (Our temperature forecast for tomorrow is 82°)  I normally dump a jug or two of RV or WW Fluid and call it good and I have never had a problem with freeze up.  So this morning I decided to buy one of those Prestone auto radiator testers just to give me an idea of where I was.  Well it didn't work and thinking it was bad I carried it back for a refund.  Next I went to Auto Zone and bought a "Peak" tester and it wouldn't work either.  Needle would not move/float.  Well two ain't bad so I read the instructions which stated "auto antifreeze".

Soooo, I reckon that there is no way to actually test the strength of blade lube using WW Fluid or RV Antifreeze.

The formula for how much of which WW Fluid strength to add to the jug is here on the FF, but I ain't looking, I'm just pouring.

[Old Greenhorn]

Funny you mention this Lynn. I was wondering about that. Couple of weeks back we had a cold night and the lube was sluggish the next morning. Now the Boss like to throw old antifreeze into the lube to keep it flowing, but I don't care for that because there is a lot of junk in there. SO I started adding my own WW fluid in but I am frugal too, so I would put about 25% ww fluid with the water. I was down there today and checked my backup jugs and nothing is frozen even though the pond is froze over. Seems like it does take much. I have a 3 gallon jug there I only put about a quart of WW fluid in, and it is fine. The jug on my mill at home was nearly froze solid last week.
 82°, man you are killing me!

[Stephen1]

I've been using WW antifreeze for a month now. I get worried when it is getting down to 40F. Thats when I add. I only saw at the shop for the winter, and the mill is in the heated shop at night. I ussually add 1/2 gallon to my jug when filling. Today I pulled the mill out to saw and it was -16C almost 0F for you southern boys. It warmed up nicely to 28F and by saturday we are looking at 55F. Weird weather. 

[Magicman]

One has to read the WW Fluid labels carefully here.  On the shelf today was +32°, and 0°.  We seldom see the -20° and -32° stuff.  The RV antifreeze is -50° for Walmart brand and -100° for Prestone.  I bought 4 jugs of the -50° stuff and put ½ jug in my 5 gallon sawmill tank.  When it gets colder I'll probably add the entire gallon to the 5 gallon tank.  That is about what I have been doing for years.  If it will be below freezing I always purge the system with the straight -50 or -100 stuff.

I was just wondering where I was protected to when I tried the tester.  :

[Old Greenhorn]

That +32 stuff would only get sold once up here. :D ;D Yeah, I should start reading bottles instead of assuming what is in them. The minimum they should sell here is -20 and beyond. Gotta start looking. The convenience store sells their stuff for 4 bucks a gallon. If I run the HD in town they often have for for 1.99 or less but I haven't seen it HD yet this year.

[Peter Drouin]

I put in WW fluid. Same WW fluid in the jug 2 years now. Maybe I should dump it and put in fresh stuff. 

[Magicman]

I use very little lube until I get into sappy SYP logs.  I will be sawing Longleaf Pine logs next week so lube will be a necessity.  Thankfully they have been felled for about 9 months which will make it much better.

[YellowHammer]

A couple weeks ago, once we start getting freezes, I switched to diesel.  I have lost more than one set of check valves to freezing weather when I didn't have the anti freeze mix concentrated enough.  

[charles mann]

For testing purposes, could you not run some 1qt test batches with different mixtures of washer fluid and rv antifreeze? Make different batches with different mixtures of each solutions and put them in the freezer that has a know temp via a freezer thermometer and check every 6 hrs or whatever time permits, in addition to overnight and check the following morning. 

[Southside]

YH. Does the diesel eat check valves? I have that problem.

[kantuckid]

One has to read the WW Fluid labels carefully here.  On the shelf today was +32°, and 0°.  We seldom see the -20° and -32° stuff.  The RV antifreeze is -50° for Walmart brand and -100° for Prestone.  I bought 4 jugs of the -50° stuff and put ½ jug in my 5 gallon sawmill tank.  When it gets colder I'll probably add the entire gallon to the 5 gallon tank.  That is about what I have been doing for years.  If it will be below freezing I always purge the system with the straight -50 or -100 stuff.

I was just wondering where I was protected to when I tried the tester.  :

My lube jug currently has Walmart RV thats marked -65 degs. They do their typical clearance sales on seasonal items and I have a stash-mostly for my actual RV trailer- that was bought for $2 a jug. 
I had a KS farmer neighbor who like many children of the depression, was a certified tightwad. His anti-freeze testing involved placing any he had removed into jugs then sit aside to see what still wasn't frozen on a really cold day. If it was frozen he'd throw it out later. He had little regard for additive packages and all that stuff. He saved oil too, allowing the grunge to settle, then back in his tractors (one he plowed with had steel wheels) it would go when topping off. 
Easy to make fun of his practices but truth be known Taylor F. was a very wealthy farmer and had a degree in animal husbandry form K-State University. He was a meat inspector/Sgt for the US Army all of WWII. 
I saw on days logs are not frozen as I'm a hobby sawyer. 8) 

[YellowHammer]

Yes, some, but in my case it's caused by the swelling of the O rings due to the oil, which look like Butyl rubber to me, and typically, they swell anyway due to me using the Cotton Spindle Lube.  So I'm used to it.

If I don't use diesel, I have to drain the fluid out of the lines every night and pour straight WW fluid into the jug fitting and fill and purge the Lubemizer system, which doesn't take too long, but is an inconvenience doing it every night after dark when I get done sawing.  I personally don't think WW fluid does much for me as far as band cleaning, so I won't run it alone in my Lubemizer tank, so I will always have a type of oil in the tank, be it CPSO or Diesel.

I contrast, when I Dieselize my mill, and switch to straight diesel, I don't have to do anything except shut it off, release band tension, and walk away and go.  

I keep thinking I will replace the O rings with Viton, which is impervious to oils, but never get around to it.  However, the issues I have with freezing are much worse, and instead of the check valves dripping some, they freeze and crack, which means I have to stop and fix them, and the put a heater on the system and thaw stuff out.  I've also frozen my lube pump, which is a total pain.  

So I Dieselize the mill

I switch to the Gates B72 belts from Amazon.  Since the oils swell them the belts, and the stock WM belts are bigger diameter, they will swell and slap the guards, and the B72's won't.

I put a "drip loop" or circle in the last few inches of the Lubemizer tube, which means if the check valve leaks, the whole line full of diesel won't drip out on the ground even night, only the diesel beyond the loop.

Since Diesel has a much higher viscosity than water or water mixes, it won't spray well from the top and bottom Lubemizer nozzles, so I remove the lower spray nozzle for the Lubemizer so it all sprays from the top nozzle, and better coats the band.  I simply put a grease fitting into the threads of the lower nozzle opening to plug it off.  This greatly reduces the amount dripped on the ground and minimized the stink around the mill.

In the colder weather, the diesel doesn't stink much anyway, so I don't really smell it anymore.

Diesel is an extremely good band cleaner so that's a bonus.

I don't have to worry about anything freezing until next spring.    

[jpassardi]

Even though we have no freezing weather anywhere in our forecast, I decided to go ahead and winterize my blade lube.  (Our temperature forecast for tomorrow is 82°)  I normally dump a jug or two of RV or WW Fluid and call it good and I have never had a problem with freeze up.  So this morning I decided to buy one of those Prestone auto radiator testers just to give me an idea of where I was.  Well it didn't work and thinking it was bad I carried it back for a refund.  Next I went to Auto Zone and bought a "Peak" tester and it wouldn't work either.  Needle would not move/float.  Well two ain't bad so I read the instructions which stated "auto antifreeze".

Soooo, I reckon that there is no way to actually test the strength of blade lube using WW Fluid or RV Antifreeze.

The formula for how much of which WW Fluid strength to add to the jug is here on the FF, but I ain't looking, I'm just pouring.

MM, I believe the issue here is that the radiator testers are for ethylene glycol and ww and rv use alcohol which is less dense. Those floating balls work based on fluid density.

[Magicman]

Yes I know now.  I just had a brainstorm and was seeking a quick way to actually know how low I was protected to.  I have been successfully using the 'glug' method for years and will continue to do so.

[Southside]

@YellowHammer that needs to go into the useful sawmill mods thread - lot of good fixes there.  After all the testing, trying, and concoctions I played with all I use is diesel now.  I am going to pull that bottom nozzle today.  

Let me know if you come up with the right o-ring, I have a drawer full of leaking, expensive, check valves.

[hilltopper46]

I put in WW fluid. Same WW fluid in the jug 2 years now. Maybe I should dump it and put in fresh stuff.

I think this is a valid point - WW fluid uses alcohol to lower the freezing point, and alcohol will migrate out of the water, even in a container that appears to be capped, and possibly even sealed.

[Magicman]

It would be much cheaper to buy Methyl Alcohol, but again, how much to use?

[jpassardi]

I suppose you could mix some small containers with varying percentages, put em on the porch and see what temperature they freeze at.

[Southside]

If it's cheap you are after, some copper tubing, corn mash, running shoes... :D

[Magicman]

Wood-Mizer PDF for using -20° Windshield Wiper Mix Ratio:  LINK

[Woodpecker52]

To test fluid put small amount in plastic bag and stick in freezer.

[slider]

Like others i use diesel because i saw lots of pine. cotton picker spindle lube is next best but not as good. The only problem is the way my mill looks using diesel .

[KenMac]

If your use of diesel leaves the mill in a mess maybe you could check out Cook's system of Rubbing the blade in two locations by using flannel (I think) and, thereby, not making a mess and using  much less diesel.
I have 550 or so hours on my AC 36 and have used less than 10 gallons of fuel on the blades and the blades and guide rollers are near spotless. One drip every couple seconds in each wick on pine and use onlt one side on hardwoods. I can barely even smell the diesel.

[Magicman]

I certainly am not trying to protect it to 0°.  Since I use the 'glug' method, I was just wondering if there was a simple test.  The PDF chart linked above shows that if I make a 50-50 mix of -20° WWF and water I will be protected to any temperature that we may have.  That is the method that I have been using for 21 years and have never had a freezing problem.

[charles mann]

If it's cheap you are after, some copper tubing, corn mash, running shoes... :D

Why waste corn. Sugar, water and yeast work fine too, and for me, no hangover. 

[TimW]

Soooo, I reckon that there is no way to actually test the strength of blade lube using WW Fluid or RV Antifreeze.

Just found this and haven't read the thread yet, but you can test it in your truck. When freezing, if you push your washer switch and nothing comes out...............................It is frozen.......don't put it in your Lubemizer. :D
Merry Christmas hugs,   Brandi

[TimW]

Soooo, I reckon that there is no way to actually test the strength of blade lube using WW Fluid or RV Antifreeze.

Just found this and haven't read the thread yet, but you can test it in your truck. When freezing, if you push your washer switch and nothing comes out...............................It is frozen.......don't put it in your Lubemizer. :D
Merry Christmas hugs,   Brandi

What?  No replies?  I am shocked. :D
Merry Christmas hugs,  Brandi