thinking of selling my lt40

[Peter Drouin]

I know a lot of work. no way to cut 14,000 bf a week and scale logs and put them away , and saw them, band up the lumber and chip up the slabs. :D :D :D
And take care of the customers that come in.
I just have to think about it :D :D :D :D

[Bandmill Bandit]

Learned a lot this summer!
All lengths were a pretty even split of 10 and 12 foot and average diameter was 14". not counting the 25 to 30 % of the logs that were under 7" on the big end.

Best day   = 6840 BF only did this once and got close 2 times 5000BF +/- (all 6x8 and 12 x 12)
Worst day =   280 BF

Average  =   2180 BF cutting 10 to 12 hour days

This was with an excelent helper that kept me at the saw head except at blade change time.

cut list was 3x10, 3x12, 4x6, 6x6, 6x8, 8x8, 12x12. Everything else was cut to 1 or 2 inch thick and went to the edger.

Gainful employment? Barely!
Profitable?? The jury is still out on that! I would say on the plus side of break even but not in double digit %s.

My mill is a modified LT40 Hydraulic. the only thing not modified yet is the lift motor. everything else is same as a super with a 28 kohler gas engine.

[sawlogs]

yep Bandit, breakin even is always a common issue, profit margin little to none. you get lucky once in a while and make a decent profit if you saw alone but with help your profit flies out the window! ;D

[Ron Wenrich]

Bibby:  I had a standing order for 23' switch ties.  We would saw a load every other week or so.  It was not optimum, since the side cuts had to be cut into lengths shorter than 16'.  When we hit tulip poplar, it was not uncommon to saw for days in 16' logs.  By the same token, I could saw for a week on tie logs or 8' poplar.  10' logs were pretty common on the butts, since that's what sold best for veneer.  I just got the rejects.

We didn't worry too much about the guy who wanted something special that walked through the door.  Usually, handling the customer was more expensive than what we got extra.  If they needed a specialty item, it got put into the cutting mix and separated when we sawed that species.  The highest price item I cut was a specialty cut for a market in New York City.  It was delivered at $4.50/bf and was air dried.  I got the market because I could figure out how to cut it. 

Our aim was to get logs in and lumber out in a short turn around time.  That way we didn't lose money in degrade, either in lumber or logs.  We never end sealed logs and logs didn't sit for more than a few weeks.  The only time we stockpiled far in advance was in the fall to offset winter and hunting season.

[stavebuyer]

Since the thread has already been hijacked..
There's a couple large mills in KY that have replaced circle rigs with WM commercial mills and they are doing quite well sawing ties. In fact they have forced some smaller circle mills out of business that couldn't compete on the prices they are able to pay for logs.
The cost of tie logs and the price of side lumber is the determining factor in my opinion. If your sawing sweet gum, elm, or 12" oak logs that are 4-5 cuts and spit out a tie; I'd agree with Ron. If your sawing 13"+ oak, ash, maple etc. that have as much or more value in side lumber than in the sawn tie; the higher production cost of the band-mill is offset by the lumber return. We visited one of those mills last week. They run multiple LT300's. 140 ties a day average per mill with 3 men. Counting side lumber that's around 3200' a day per man in overall production and a 25% savings in log costs. The additional 25% in over-run is not in $.054 ties but in $.068+ side lumber. The math works.

Back to original programming... Sawlogs made the right call for him. A used circle rig can be set up and making money for a fraction of what it would cost to set up 2 LT300's. That math works much better than the LT40 he replaced.     

[sawlogs]

the math works for me! im feeling better about my decision everyday, although I may have somewhat shot myself in the foot on making $ for a couple weeks, over the past couple days I have had on average 12 to 20 calls per day of folks wanting lumber and also have had around 4000bdf of pine delivered by customers, so I need to get busy befor my WM gets gone....thanks guys 8)

[Bibbyman]

Maybe you need to back out of the sale of the Wood-Mizer and use it to pick up some extra cash?  You can run it evenings,  weekends, holidays.  There will be a lot of little jobs that it would be handy for.   ;)

[sawlogs]

yep good thinking bibby, I mite end up keeping it for now but its a BIG mite, I need to sell it to offset the cost of the circle!... but who knos it may be a really good $ month and it may work out that I can keep it!..

[Bibbyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8nyrP8bclI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Now don't get me wrong, I can watch circle sawmills operate for hours.  8)

Check out his top saw at the end.

[sawlogs]

well, got a good look at the circle mill today! WOW!!!! im impressed to say the least! ... it sawed a 30 inch dia red oak log 10 ft long just under 2 minutes smiley_clapping...  now im getting worried about feeding that thing! :-\

[dgdrls]

well, got a good look at the circle mill today! WOW!!!! im impressed to say the least! ... it sawed a 30 inch dia red oak log 10 ft long just under 2 minutes smiley_clapping...  now im getting worried about feeding that thing! :-\

The 6-71 will go like a bandit, if you stick with it to try and get the exhaust up and out and see
if you can build some noise deflectors, they can be loud.  The other alternative is to to try an locate another
power plant,  Deutz makes  dandy air-cooled units and I understand they are less thirsty and certainly quieter.

best
DGDrls

[ladylake]

671 detroits are load, nothing I'd want to listen to , it's not the exhaust they just scream.  2 minutes seems fast for a 30" log, what size were they sawing.   Steve

[ladylake]

671 detroits are load, nothing I'd want to listen to , it's not the exhaust they just scream.  2 minutes seems fast for a 30" log, what size were they sawing.  I was watching up at the steam show in Rollag mn, most logs took 4 minutes, around 15" x 8'    Steve

[Bandmill Bandit]

Another thing I should add is that  when was sawing for the family owned saw mill this summer I did not have to do any of the stuff that I normally do when sawing on a mobile job.

The owners have a couple of loader operators plus Bob (Dad) and Ted (son) will jump on one of the loaders when they are not in the office.

I did not have to do any of the in feed loading, out feed product removal or waste removal. I didn't even have to run for parts or supplies most of the time.

My job was pretty easy! 1. Park my butt on the seat and cut. 2. Keep my mill maintained and bands sharp. 3. Park my butt in the seat and cut!

 
 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good picture Bandit. But if I were you I would have probably parked my butt on the seat and cut.  :D

[Bibbyman]

I was thinking shade, where's the shade?

[ladylake]

 I see a umbrella over that seat.   Steve

[Bibbyman]

What are you sawing?   And why are they having you saw it when they have a mill?

[Jim_Rogers]

Two questions: How'd you get the picture? and how'd you stack the sawdust like that?

Jim Rogers

[Bandmill Bandit]

1. How did I get the picture?

I was set up on the west side of Bute Hill which is about the only hill for 30 or so miles and it is a big hill. Has a very nice flat top where both Ted and Bob have both built their homes and it is still about a 5 minute walk between them. The hill occupies about 60 acres at its base. On the east side of the hill, about 20 feet above the log yard is a cut out about 1,5 to 2 acre section of the hill that the county used the material from to repair a washout on a bridge about a 1/4 mile east of the yard a few years ago. They left a horse shoe shaped cut bank about 20 + feet high on average that gives a very great wind protected place to saw. Well protected from the north and west which is prevailing wind direction in the area.  That picture is a stitch of 2 or 3 that my son took from several spots on the top of the bank to the west and north one after noon when he stopped to drop a box of blades on his way home from an oil field computer service call that took him with in a mile of where I was sawing.

this pic is shot to the north north east.



2. Saw dust pile?

If you look back in the usefull mods you will see my pail hanger that i use to catch the saw dust. The pile is where we dumped it to make it easy for the loader to grab it and get rid of it. we did make a minor set up change a day or 2 later by moving the saw dust pile to to the east side of the sawmill to where the 6x8s are stacked in the picture and over a bit next to the infeed roll way with just enough room to walk through and for the loader to get in comfortably. Switched to dropping the saw dust on the ground and using a 24 inch plastic snow shovel to pile the saw dust. Found this to be a very effective way to deal with the saw dust.

3. What was I sawing?

90% Lodge Pole Pine with a bit of spruce and a the odd stick of other types of pine

4x4 4x6, 6x6 & about half of the 6x8 go to Sunpine forest products treatment plant about 10 miles away. 3x10, 3x12, 6x8, 8x8 & 12x12 go to Trans Canada Pipe, Pidernary,s Oil feild division, Precision Drilling and Nabors amongst others. 2nd cut and 2 inch go to local lumber yards for the beef industry. allowable wane is 10 to 15% but had to have bark cleaned off. Used a draw knife for that.  Any good 1 inch that would edge to a 6 inch minimum board went to the treating plant for residential fence boards

I was one of 3 custom operators on site beside their 2 circle mills and LT70.

1) LT40 Hydraulic
1) LT40 almost Super modified Hydraulic (mine)
1) Mobile dimensional that was broke down more than it was working. It was wore out and the owner was no operator or mechanic. very rammy and just plain hard on equipment.

They load out on average 7 super Bs a week pretty much one every morning and 2 or 3 on Mondays.

SHADE

Yes I have an umbrella but it was a bit small so I got a 7 foot deck umbrella with the knuckle so I could adjust it to the best position. made a mount tube for the bottom on the seat back that has a 5/16ths hole through it and then drilled 4 similar holes in the base of the umbrella shaft so that i can set it adn stick a pin through to hold it. I works real well.

this pic has some ghosting effect to it from the stitching app but it is a bit wider angle


   

         

[sawlogs]

hey guys, haven't been on here in a few days but things are under way on the circle mill, almost got all the pieces hauled inn and getting ready to do the painful set-up! :-\.... anyway my WM has gone on to a new home and a great owner, I also have the option to buy it back when he is finished with it, so sort of a win-win situation.. ill post pics of progress with the circle mill when we get started on setting it up 8)....thanks for all of your input and helpful advice! smiley_clapping

[dgdrls]

hey guys, haven't been on here in a few days but things are under way on the circle mill, almost got all the pieces hauled inn and getting ready to do the painful set-up! :-\.... anyway my WM has gone on to a new home and a great owner, I also have the option to buy it back when he is finished with it, so sort of a win-win situation.. ill post pics of progress with the circle mill when we get started on setting it up 8)....thanks for all of your input and helpful advice! smiley_clapping

any progress pictures yet??

Hope the project is going well.

DGDrls

[sawlogs]

holy crap batman!!!!.. finally,finally, got the circle mill set up and running, WOW! what a difference in speed! ill post some pics later but I am one pleased circle mill owner, at this point not regretting my decision at all!!!!..thanks guys for all the advice and support 8)...........ohh and on the engine choice, I changed my mind on the Detroit and went with a Waukesha natural gas engine! this thing is a beast!!

[dgdrls]

holy crap batman!!!!.. finally,finally, got the circle mill set up and running, WOW! what a difference in speed! ill post some pics later but I am one pleased circle mill owner, at this point not regretting my decision at all!!!!..thanks guys for all the advice and support 8)...........ohh and on the engine choice, I changed my mind on the Detroit and went with a Waukesha natural gas engine! this thing is a beast!!

Great news  ;)look forward to some photos.

DGDrls

[Bandmill Bandit]

That Waukesha will last you for years if you treat if good. Clean air and clean oil and steady rpm and they will out run you. I have seen Natural gas Waukesha engines driving irrigation pumps that had 20,000 plus hours at first complete rebuild. May have to refresh heads once in a while but they even got them down to a pretty fine art so they last pretty good too. They run pretty cheap too. You will not be sorry with your choice.