Blown Gasket - They messed with the wrong Sawyer

[Kirk_Allen]

Some of you may know that we have been dealing with a local roofer who is putting on a new metal roof on our barn.  We have started week #5 on what was supposed to be a 4 day job.  Minor issue, we understand wind, rain, AND LAZINESS.

Through out the job there have been many disturbing events that will take WAY TO LONG to describe but lets just say once this job is done they will NEVER be permitted back on my property.

So, what blew the gasket on this 5 week fiasco? 

Last night they pull up and want to get final payment on the job.  I first inform them that the job is not done.  Acting perplexed he gets out of his truck and looks at all the stuff not done.  ACTING all mad at his helpers in the truck for not finishing it he goes back to writing on his notepad.  I asked him if he has his reciept for the additional materials he said he bought at our local lumber yard.  Again, he was perplexed and played dumb to knowing anything about the requested reciepts.

"Tony, I told you last week that we have to have the reciepts for the stuff you bought.  No reciepts no payment."

He gets all upset and says he will be right back.  He said he is going to the lumber yard to have them print up the reciept since he left his copy at the house. 

He comes back and hands me a ticket for just shy of $500.00 for stuff he bought to finish the barn. 

LOTS OF RED FLAGS went up.  He had 14 sheets of metal on the ticket.  He claimed that is what it took to finsih the Coupalo on the barn.  Sorry Tony, no way it took 14 sheets to do that little coupalo.  Then he back peddles and said: "Oh, thats right, some of it went for the north extension on the roof".

I SMELLED A RAT.  I told him I would pass on the paper work to my Dad and if all was in order payment would be mailed AFTER he finishes what needs finished on the barn.

Getting to the Blown Gasket:

I looked over the ticket he gave me from the lumber yard and said, "Lord, I smell a rat but cant put my hands on it, HELP".

In an instant it hit me in the face like a ton of bricks.  "TICKET" was the key!  He had handed me a "Delivery TICKET", which is what our lumber yard prints up for a quote.  IT WAS NOT AN INVOICE.  The date was for THAT DAY and the time was for when he went into the store to supposedly get a reciept for materials.

I didnt get ANY sleep last night I was so mad.  I knew he was trying to pull a fast one and had to wait until morning to prove it.

Woke up and went to town and met the owner of the lumber yard at 7am. After lenghty review of COD sales (turns out the contractors credit is shot) we identified that the contractor had NOT BOUGHT ANY material from them in the last 5 weeks.  What he had done is gone and had the lumber yard generate a quote for him and then tried to pass it off to me as if he actually bought the material. 

WRONG THING TO DO! 

One thing I hate is CROOKS, lying while smiling CROOKS. I hate even more having this CROOK on my property!  They have about 100 screws left to put in the roof and once that is done we are going to have a Come To Jesus meating.    Frank, can I barrow you axe for about an hour?

I am so glad I got input from CK prior to this job.  As he encouraged us to do, we bought ALL the material for the job as we did not want to get scammed by having them buy more than what they need and keeping the left over. Well, I suspect this guy has played this game on several folks.

NOT GOING TO WORK ON ME!  Once payment is made and he is ESCORTED off my property I am having a meeting with the local police chief.  I dont think he will take to kindly of this guy committing consumer fraud in his community.  I wish he would have mailed that paperwork to me because then it would be a federal issue for mail fraud. 

I am still steaming mad but hope to calm down long enough to get them out of here. 

[Modat22]

Take pictures of the crook extraction, I always look for good pointers.

Actually take a video

[Murf]

Kirk, I get a good number of 'clean up' jobs from guys like you describe, but in a different field of work, mind you, the guy starts than drags it out till the owner finally gives them the ole' heave ho from the job site.

I have come to realize the root of the problem after all these years of scratching my noodle and cogitating over it. After all, why would any sane contractor walk away, or ignore, a job with money outstanding, it doesn't make sense.  :

Then I saw it first hand when I bought a small business (just for the equipment) from the bank after foreclosure. I kept one or two of the employees who gave the straight poop on what happened.

A small business owner is dearly tempted to say "yes" every time the phone rings, for fear it mght not ring again tomorrow.

Now they have too much work to handle, but they don't want to lose an already landed job, so they start the job, but then get called back off that job, to deal with a 5 week old job they left previously.  :D

After a short while they end up just running around in circles between jobs, not doing anything more productive than burning gas.

At that point they have a realllllly big problem, they have money out for material, they have money out for helpers' wages, and they have zero operating capital, but can't get paid till they finish the jobs.

Dat's when the fertilizer usually meets the rotary air movement device.......  ;)

Don't feel too bad, I doubt you're the only fella in town waiting for some stupid little bit of work to be finished on your roof.

If you have a mailing address, send him a short (less than sweet) note telling him if the job is not completed by XXX date (usually 5 working days) you will hire someone to do the unfinished work and take it out of his bill. That usually has a motivating effect.  ;)

[SwampDonkey]

DOH!!! He just condemned about 95 % of building contractors up here. 

I don't know of a single contractor that has done work for us, where we haven't been took. I could fill the whole first page of this thread.  >:(

[Jeff]

Yep, Extraction video would be cool, want us to send over the Gorilla suit? Remember the old samsonite luggage commercial?  You could put him in a suitcase.

[Modat22]

When I get news of a contractor that does this, I make sure everyone in the engineering field that I know knows about them.

We generally don't allow those folks to bid our jobs.

[UNCLEBUCK]

A come to jesus meeting with a crook like that might go in one ear and out the other . He might be a full blown christian in his hometown somewhere . Let the law work and hold payment until every screw is accounted for . Crooks make a fun project end up sour and thats why I never hire anyone because if I was dealing with a clown like that I would blow a gasket . Make sure he dont get hurt on the property until he is done . Oh boy that man sounds like a accident waiting to happen . I dont think I would even let him finish the job or go near the place. Thats too bad their are people like that. Just think what they do to little old ladies who hire him . It will be a nice building with many years of enjoyment once this clown has vanished .

[Kirk_Allen]

UB you are so right.  If it wasnt for the fact I dont have a ladder long enough to reacy the hay lift section of the barn I would tell them they are done. Its 45 feet to the edge. 

You hit the nail on the head about the little old ladies he may rip of after me.  It fries me to think people do this and all with a smile.  I am getting mad just thinking about it. 

[crtreedude]

You know, my wife and I were just talking about this last night. How do some people live with them selves? The only thing I can figure is they are so wrapped up in what they want, or their problems (and don't we all have enough of those!) they they figure that whatever they get from someone else is justified.

I think the scum who were running Enron come to mind. Destroying people's retirement while they were cashing out millions - what kind of person does that?

Perhaps I really don't want to know.

[etat]

I HATE them that gives us a bad name.  GET EM KIRK!!!!!.  I just ran a estimate for a elderly couple in Ripley a few days ago.  Real small house needing a shingle roof.  Estimated it and gave em a quote of twenty two hundred dollars materials and labor.  Basically 22 square priced at a hundred bucks a square.  Real simple straight run roof, 'might' be a couple of bad boards we'll find when we tear off the old roof but nothing to write home about.  Usually if it's just a couple of boards I throw em in with the roof.  When I gave em my estimate they had the mostest shocked look on their face. I didn't know  what the sheet that was all about, and then the ole guy said I wanna show you something.   He brought and showed me a estimate from another roofer, a itemized estimate.   They was gonna charge him for TWENTY EIGHT squares of shingles, TWICE the amount of tar paper needed, TWICE the amount for nails needed, ENOUGH PLYWOOD TO REDECK THE WHOLE HOUSE, and I know *DanG well it 'might' have had a few bad boards, not NEAR enough to justify new decking.  They wanted money for a BUNCH of other stuff that wasn't even needed for a roof, and I GUARANTEE you there wasn't no way they was gonna use all that materials.  THEIR ESTIMATE WAS FOR FORTY EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS...........for a twenty two hundred dollar job.  That ole man, I SWEAR, told me he used to be a off bearer for a sawmill and though he was old he looked to be in pretty dang good shape.  Tole me if that crooked bunch come back up in his yard he was a gonna knock em in the head and leave em laying.  Good enough for em I say!!!!!!!!!!


My prices always includes materials and labor.  If they want it broke down I'll break it down for them.  In ten years I have NEVER charged more than my quote.  If I make a mistake I eat it.  (I usually don't  ).......But I ALWAYS give a estimate for a fair price, always charge my materials to ME at the lumber yard, and ALWAYS pay my bill.  My shingle bill for last month was just a tad over  nine thousand dollars and the day i got it is the day I paid it. 

I might not ever get rich in money but to me, that's the only way to do business. 

As I said..........GET EM KIRK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


OH, and them ENRON guys..........That's another story.  A few years back  a gas company bought a right of way across my property to run a underground gas line.  Offered me a couple a thousand dollars.  i told them what they could do and run them off.  A few days later a couple of more guys showed up and asked me what I wanted for the right of way.  Off the top of my head, since it was only gonna run through a cow pasture not really fit for building a house on and was gonna be underground anyway and was only gonna cross a couple of acres I came up with a price.  I told em fifteen thousand dollars figuring we'd do some more negotions.  Two weeks later i SWEAR they came by here with a check, which I GLADLY took from them.  They told me some of the landowners were fighting with them and they didn't want me in court against them with the others.  A LOT of the other landowners never took their money and ad I said, it got all tied up in court.  Well right after that Enron went bust, and the Gas Company that wanted to run the gas line went bust without ever even getting all of the right of way.  Come to find out it was a ENRON owned company.  It never made any sense to me why they wanted to run that gas line across this way anyway.  NOT ONE BIT.  I guess it doesn't matter now.  I am glad I got their money before they  went busted though cause  it made a NICE down payment on my truck!   ;D

[karl]

Ck;
I knew I liked you for a reason;
I agree with your way of doing business, I always quote a straightforward job -calling it as I see it, if I miss something, I figure it was my fault as a professional, and I "eat it". Lesson learned, hopefully.

It really gets my donkey when I get a call to pick up the pieces behind some scam contractor- usually the customer has lost all faith in ALL builders and has no funds left to fix the ****ups. At that point you gots to walk on water to regain their trust. That is the point where I try to decide where the problems really lie- with the contractor as a builder, as a communicator, inexperience, or is it the customer. Usually a quick look at the job and a few questions that are hard to dodge of the customer let me know whether to stay or run. Ninety plus percent of the time I am ashamed to say- it was the builder not taking the needed steps to make the customer comfortable.

Kirk:
Nail the SOB to the wall.
If everyone watched their back like you are there wouldn't be so many fly-by-night contractors around.
And on the other side of the coin- we shouldn't HAVE to watch our backs when we agree to mutually beneficial agreements.  A persons word should be as good as any written contract.

I will now step down off my soapbox......

[Mike_Barcaskey]

I'll second that, great post6 cktate

I haven't advertised in two years, all my business is repeats or referrels, I must be doing something right

on the other hand, I find myself never turning down work and always witrh too much to do. that's a bad trap to fall in

[Paul_H]

I think we've probably all dealt with crooked people over the years and yes it is irritating but if it is truly a matter of principle,you would pack his tools and carefully place them just outside your property line and finish the job yourself.

[Kirk_Allen]

Paul if I had a 45 foot ladder I would have already done that.  I have no way of reaching that part of the roof without being a monkey on a rope.  Im not sure how they are going to do it either as they did drop of a ladder while I was gone and I tried to use but it wont reach where I need to go.  I sure wish it had because it would be fixed by now and the ladder would be in the road. 

[Paul_H]

Go buy a 45" ladder and deduct it from the final tally.

[Kirk_Allen]

If they arent here in the morning to finish this I am going to do just that.  I have a trailer I can haul it with now so why not.  Wouldnt be much they could say.  It would be a bad day for them if he wants to make a stink about it. 

[Shotgun]

Paul if I had a 45 foot ladder I would have already done that.  I have no way of reaching that part of the roof without being a monkey on a rope.   

Hey Kirk,

Seems as though part of the problem is already solved.   ;D

Norm

[wiam]

Hey Kirk,  rent a lift and deduct that from the bill. :D :D

Will

[beenthere]

Spanky
I mean Kirk.......

Do you have a picture of the part of the barn not finished?  Is it 45' to the edge of the roof? and then the metal needs to go above that, so you'd have to get onto the roof from the ladder (at 45')?  Just trying to picture in my mind the task to be done to finish the job.
In my youth, I put a 40' extension ladder in a tractor manure bucket and raised it 10' to get the ladder up under the eaves at 50' to spray paint a barn side. The ladder didn't fare too well when it and I came down along the side of the barn  ;D  Not recommending that method of reaching the last 5'.   ;)

The lift is one thing I had in mind too, but they reach up, but not 'out' very far, at least the ones I am familiar with.

[Bro. Noble]

We repaired and painted our barn roofs a few years back.  I bought a long nylon rope and threw it over the barn.  Tied a ladder to the rope and used it wherever I wanted to go on the barn.  One of our barns has a projection for a loose hay lift.  That was a little scary,  but we got it done without having to have a ladder from the ground.  Had about a dozen people driving by that stopped and asked if we would do theirs as soon as we finished that one :D :D

[SwampDonkey]

Some of these old barns around here are all of that (height) and way to steep to climb up. Even more difficult if they are steel, most are steel or aluminum roofed. Won't get me up there.    smiley_dizzy  smiley_sick

[Tony]

      Kirk, I don't remember doing all that to you but, there are alot of
things that I,ve done in the past I can't recall  . I'll try to make it up somehow
though.


                                    TONY[/b]

[Vermonter]

Kirk;
I am embarrassed to say I had the same problem here.
Barn roof really high, needed some roofing.
This guy stops by, bids it at $100 square labor, no material.
My wife thought it would be a good idea, so did I.
Four weeks later, with day after day of sunny weather, it rains.  They show up, and want money.  
I got ugly, and to make a long story short, I got my roof finished.  Luckily, I had a morning off just before they capped it.  I needed to add another course on both sides of the peak, and get the caps started right.  They finished, I paid them.  I held up my side of the bargain.
At the end of the job, they wanted to buy some gas.  It turned out they had already stole the 10 gallons I had.  They blamed it on the guy that had to go back to jail.  I gave them a short chunk of chain to tow the second truck away.   They were very clear that if they showed up to return the chain, they would regret it.  I picked up about a case of beer cans thrown off the back of the barn.  Even I don't drink on that roof.  I'm really lucky they didn't fall off.
The only thing on the barn that wasn't done by myself or with help from friends.  At least it's dry in there tonight.

[etat]

I've got three forty foot ladders, a thirty two foot ladder, and about seven or eight or nine shorter ladders but danged if i've ever seen a ladder over forty foot long.   Even with my laddervator i can bolt sections to it up to forty foot tall and then brace it off for sending up shingles.  A couple of times we 'have' backed a pick up or a truck up and stood the ladder up in the bed of it against the cab to get a little higher.  I will say this, when we stand up tall ladders like that we always anchor them down so they won't move.

I have NO problem with heights, not none at all.  ANd....i've swinged from a rope a few times, really don't' like to do it these days but ain't really scared to.  THAT SAID......sometimes, not often, we have used two by six brackets with a ladder on top of them, (this would be on top of the roof) if we just had to get up there and make repairs or something).  either way, i want my ladder secured and even then preferable with somebody standing on the bottom of it if I'm up high.

I'm NOT afraid of heights, doesn't bother me at all but Ladders scare me to death. 

[crtreedude]

cktate - I am with you, I HATE ladders. I have ridden them down before (standing on it an the bottom slides out...) and did not enjoy the experience.

When I have to go up on top, I use a harness and my climbing gear. 

But, I do have a little fear of heights - just enough to be nervous. My wife has NONE - zero.

[etat]

I've rode two down when i was younger.  Back in the early summer we got careless.  Wasn't up high and just stood a ladder up, only about ten or twelve feet to climb and didn't secure the ladder.  I'd been up and down it no telling how many times that day.  My wife started to step off on it and it and it slid out at the bottom and she rode it to the ground, or 'almost  to the ground.  When she fell she broke two ribs.  I don't care if I'm only climbing a few feet these days.  I'm going to KNOW that ladder is NOT going to move. 

[Kirk_Allen]

The tough part that is left is putting screws in the metal on the northern section where the Hay Hoist is at.  This section sticks out past the main roof and they only secured it at the top while the stradled the peak. They FORGOT to put any screws down the rest of the metal.  The facia is 45 feet up and then I have to screw the metal down about another 8 feet up the roof line (12/12 pitch).

The other part that needs finished is putting screws on the bottom row all across the east side of the roof.  They FORGOT to fasten it there.  

The closure strips I can do myself and dont need them for that.  I will live up to my end and pay them but I expect them to finish screw ups.  If they dont finish it tomarrow they may not get paid.  

CK, I too am NOT afraid of heights. Im not even afraid of ladders.  In fact, falling doesnt even bother me.  Its that stinkin sudden stop that gets me shaken

[sawguy21]

Geez Murf. That is exactly what happened to the heli-logging outfit I worked for. How didja know? :D :D :D Things are booming around here right now and trades are tough to get. There are more gypo outfits taking advantage than a cat show has fleas. Seems the only service trade people available are the ones nobody will hire.

[crtreedude]

Yeah cktate,

That is always the problem - it is also why I work in the office most of the time and the workers watch after me - I think they have instructions from Amy...  :

I am absent minded and it is so easy to get in to trouble really quick because you forgot something.  :-[

Not good at all.

Kirk, don't you hate it when you thought you hired someone to get a job done and you then have to take it back over? I swear, that is something that irritates me to know end - after all, if I wanted to do it, or had the time or the tools, I wouldn't have hired anyone!

[isawlogs]

  Kirk .

You can always ask him to send you the ticket by mail ...  You may have lost  it or forgot it somewhere and would need an another .. 
  A lot of them are not all that bright and he could send you one ... then you got yourself a mail fraud  ;D ;)

[crtreedude]

Boy, you got that right! The stories I could tell.

For example, what all crooks should know but somehow a many don't, is everything is recorded going out of prisons. Well, I once was reviewing a system that did this and saw several records marked "Confesses to crime" - and then the type of crime.

They were all over the place! Since theses systems are capable of capturing the phone number dialed too - it sure makes the district attorney's job easy.  :D

A lot of these crooked people are really dumb. No common sense at all - and they don't read much more than the price of a case of beer.

By the way, one of the funnier ones I had to listen to was when someone was confessing to his lawyer that he killed someone and the lawyer was desperately trying to break in and tell him to shut up, but there was nothing stopping him - until after he got it off his chest. When the lawyer finally was able to tell him that he was being recorded - his response was classic.  :

[Gabby]

I agree with Murf but make sure you send the note Registered Receipt Requested. Its amazing when you send that kind of note how many don't get delivered!

[Engineer]

CK 'n you others -

I've seen this on a lot of jobs and my old boss used to do this occasionally - overestimate the job by ten or fifteen percent, customer gets billed for all materials, and the barn in back of the office starts slowly filling up with materials that are 'left-over' from jobs, and paid for.  After a while they have enough stuff to bid a job (still at ten or fifteen percent over) and not have to buy a thing from the yard.  Most customers were not savvy enough to demand copies of delivery slips and invoices.    The boss makes 110% profit.

I have a crew of three working on roofing and siding my house right now.  I told them I would pay for all materials and place it on my own contractor account.  If they needed ANYTHING, nails, felt paper, adhesive, trim boards, they were to call me and I'd get it.  I'm paying only for labor.  Now if I want a job done 100% and don't want to go shopping, I don't mind paying 10% over for markup, and the contractor works on a T&M basis.  Every stick, every nail, every scrap of shingle or plywood, better be in a pile or in a stack at my place when you leave.  Partial boxes of screws and nails, they're mine, I paid for 'em. 

I would bet that's where the "other guys" were going with that job.  Way overbid, the old man pays for all of it, and the inventory in the shop grows a little bit.

[SW_IOWA_SAWYER]

I have owned and managed many rental units for 20 years, I have had just about every possible thing pulled on me or at least tried on me. I have been ripped off by contractors building a house and cheated by guys I have hired to do something.

And I am telling you this, getting all worked up over something that involves money just ain't worth it. Life is too short to get tied up in a knot stewing over it, CAUSE I will bet you dollars to donuts the other person ain't.

I can hear you saying "this is different" well I have been cheated out of 10s of thousands of dollars and I used to get aggitated (And believe me it wasn't pretty) but in 5 years this won't make any difference and all it does is stress you out.

I am not saying give in or up but, I would give him a deadline to finish in writing and when he misses that date fire him and move on. If you feel he is trying to cheat you don't pay that bill and let him try and get the money from you.  

Just my .02 worth from years of hearing every possible sob story, outright lie imagineable.
Its worth what it cost you

Good Luck

[Kirk_Allen]

Rest assured I AM NOT STRESSING.  I learned a long time ago not to stress out over stuff like this.  Especially since I am in control of the checkbook ;D

This morning the contractor called and asked if the payment was mailed yet.

No, the job is not done so no payment. 

He then went on to accuse me of taking his speed square.  This guy is unreal.  He STILL does not know how much doggy dung is about to hit the fan.

He is here right now finishing puting the screws in they forgot and when he is done I will have my meeting with him.  He will be paid what is owed based on the quote, minus a new rake which he trashed and never replaced. 

The second he gets testy about not getting paid the extra on the other ticket he will be politly informed of the Deceptrive Trade Practice law and given the option to walk away, or have me pay that amount and imediatly turn him in for prosectution.

Turns out that as long as he has not taken money under that fraudulent ticket they cant prosecute until he takes the cash. States attorney is begging me to pay him but not willing to gurantee I will get my money back.  No crime committed until the funds transfer from my hand to his. 

It will be the contrators choice.  In about an hour or so we will find out just how stupid or smart this cat is. 
Stay tuned! 

If your wondering, I am calm, cool, and collected! 

[Modat22]

I'd love to be a fly on the way during that confron.. erm meeting.

[Murf]

I really don't mind picking up the pieces after somebody messed up's it the first go round.

Mind you, 95% of what we do is commercial work so we don't have to deal with the poor homeowners who got screwed either.

I rahter enjoy finishing the job abd restoring peoples faith in contractors, especially after the owner asks me to testify in court when he goes after the crook who screwed the job up in the first place.  ;D

[Tom_Averwater]

Kirk, If you really want to blow his bubble,  tell  him you need a copy of his Liability Ins. and Workmans comp. Certificate before you can pay him.

[Kirk_Allen]

Well I am done with him 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

He got caught in three lies in less than 5 minutes.  I suggested very kindly that he take his final payment and NEVER pull this kind of stunt again.  He said he was sorry for any confusion on materials and that he will eat the difference.

"Eat the Difference?"  Difference of what?  You committed Fraud and if it wasn't for the poor guys you got working for you I wouldn't pay you anything based on a breach of contract.  Do you want to go down that road?  Again, I suggest you take your money and NEVER PULL THIS ON ANYONE again. "

He said he was sorry for the confusion.

CONFUSION?  >:( WHATS CONFUSING ABOUT YOU COMMITTING FRAUD?   >:(

He threw his hands up and walked out with money in hand. 

Why on earth people do these kind of things is beyond me. 

[crtreedude]

Now Kirk - there was confusion - you thought he was an honest contractor...   :

See, just an honest mistake - on your part. I guess you should have known he was a crook.  ;)

[sandmar]

Did he finish up the high part of the roof for you? Sure hope so,those kind of contractors really get my goat! Now spread the word to everyone you see to steer clear of the joker.

Sandmar

[SwampDonkey]

I can hear you saying "this is different" well I have been cheated out of 10s of thousands of dollars

So haven't my folks. And to top that all off we had alot of woodlots (450 acres) on 7 farms that almost every neighbor would sneak a little wood here and there after they would drive through 50 or 100 acres of their own to get there. :   Trouble is that the crooks all know my father is a push over, he never says nothing.  >:(

Well I gotta laugh a little bit here....

Now Kirk - there was confusion - you thought he was an honest contractor... :

See, just an honest mistake - on your part. I guess you should have known he was a crook. ;)

:D :D :D :D

[crtreedude]

Well, I was just trying to be fair...  :

[Lud]

In the 47 years here at the farm ,  we painted roofs with mops tied off on old barn ropes attached to 4 or 5 cement blocks.  The bank barn is that 45 foot to the peak.

When we sided it 10 years ago I went up on the inside,  drilled thru  and unscrewed and put thru a 7/8 turnbuckle which I then cabled to the hayrail.  That ring is what we run the safety rope thru and we left it in the roof for future jobs.   

It's one thing to freeclimb up and run the rope  but thereafter you feel a lot safer.  So if you're building barns etc.  maybe think about the future safety of someone and give 'em a ring to tie off on.

It's a shame Kirk had to go thru that........I admire his restraint ......

[etat]

I seem to remember about twenty years or so ago a band of 'gypsy' type contractors came through here offering to paint rusty tin roofs with aluminum paint.  A few people fell for it.  After they were gone..........and a couple of rains later..........the shiny aluminum color washed off.  Apparently they were taking four or five gallons of thinner per gallon of paint and spraying them.  They'd look real nice and shiny..........until a couple of good rains. 


Another scam that used to go on around was back when white shingles were in style.  After a few years they would start turning black due to a type of algae or mold that gets on shingles.  These crooks would go around and offer to spray them with a 'special' chemical that they got from 'Memphis' or somewhere far off that was really expensive but guaranteed to turn the roofs back white.  The prices they'd charge would be what ever they thought they could get.  These crooks would usually prey on older people, working door to door.  Once trading they'd insist the home owner leave for a while and then get up there and spray it down with bleach and water.  I actually worked for a guy for 'one day' back in the mid seventy's.  When I found out what he was doing and how much he was charging I quit.  As I remember he bragged to me that he'd beat that old lady out of five hundred dollars for a few hours of work and a couple of gallons of bleach.  I understand that there are still some people today who try this same scam, cleaning shingles with bleach and charging HUGE prices.

Wow, i can think of a BUNCH of scams I've heard of over the years but me, I'd just rather do a fair job and then as someone said earlier depend on word of mouth and trying to do good work to keep me busy. 

Here's a picture of a house we just finished that is a almost exact copy of one that was featured in a write up in southern living magazine that will even have a hidden room in it behind a revolving bookcase.



the picture shown is of the backside of the house.  We  roofed it a few months ago except for the eaves which come up with a wall of brick on each one of them and we had to wait until the brick work was done before we could do those two particular ends. 

This house for the most part wasn't very steep or hard to roof with the exception of a couple of dead valleys that were kind of tricky.  The top or the house is flat and up there we installed a one piece EPDM rubber roof.   As I remember we spent three days roofing the house including the top and spent a day each on the three brick eaves finishing them up when we went back.  We actually flashed and counter flashed the brick walls by cutting into the brick itself with a diamond blade and a skillsaw. 

[SwampDonkey]

I seem to remember about twenty years or so ago a band of 'gypsy' type contractors came through here offering to paint rusty tin roofs with aluminum paint.  A few people fell for it.  After they were gone..........and a couple of rains later..........the shiny aluminum color washed off.  Apparently they were taking four or five gallons of thinner per gallon of paint and spraying them.  They'd look real nice and shiny..........until a couple of good rains. 

That's exactly what happened to my Dang fool hearty uncle 2 years ago. I couldn't imagine him being taken in by this scam. He was charged $400 for a 1 hour paint job with aluminum colored paint. I was mad as hell, I'm about the bust a stitch thinking about it.  >:(

[Brad_S.]

60 Minutes or some TV news show like that did a report on that group. They're called 'The Travelers' from South Carolina and take pride on being rated within their community as "good doers", which is "doing" the unsuspecting out of their money. Going door to door for work and thinning paint to stretch it out is their signature scam. If I recall, they also have a sick custom of dressing their children up as adults, parading them around and marrying at a very young age.
http://www.troubleshooterjudd.com/consumer/consumer_irish_scammers.html

[Kirk_Allen]

Yes they finished the high part of the barn but not without more events.

They were in the loft, INSIDE the barn trying to stuff foam under them metal instead of putting the closures on the right way.  OK, I can live with that to a degree, but guess who is SMOKING a cigarette in my barn?  TONY! 

Not the Tony from the south who doesn't know what Snow is  :D

I asked him what the heck he thought he was doing smoking in the barn.  "Tony, what on earth makes you think its NOT OK for your workers to smoke in or around the barn but its OK for you".  "Put out the DanG cigarette and get this job done. 

The contractor called my Dad to apologize and my Dad even caught him in a lie. Dad thought that he sounded scared and was trying his best to convince him NOT to prosecute him for what he did. 

[pigman]

'The Travelers' from South Carolina came by here about 10 years ago wanting to paint my barn roofs. The young boss drove up in his fancy new pickup and asked if I thought the old feed barn roof next to my house needed painting. The old barn was old and bad shape with part of the roof already missing. I have since replaced it with a pole barn.  I told him, sure it needed painting real bad. ;) He smiled and said he could paint that roof for$800 and guarantee that it would look like new. :  I told him that if he could make it look like new that it would be worth $1000. ;D He stopped and looked at me like I was crazy.  He then asked why I was willing to pay more than he asked for. I told him it was simple, "I want you to paint the roof and if it still looks good after 5 years I might  send you the money". ;D He got in his truck and left without saying another word. ;D

[sandmar]

smoking in a barn  : sheesh this guy is lucky you didn't kill him instead of prosecuting him! glad They SORTA finished the job! Hope you have a better day tomorrow Kirk.....you deserve it for your restraint.

Sandmar

[crtreedude]

We had someone plant trees for us (contract) but Hector had to watch over them to make sure they did every tree right (14,000!). The workers were great, the forestry engineer was a young punk who didn't work. Disgusted Hector a lot.

Hector cut out the forestry engineer's wage except for when he was there and working - and gave it to the workers (he found out how much they were being paid, which was too low).

The workers are actually a crew that goes from place to place - since we pay better than usual (we want better work!) the workers will be with us next year - and we have our own full-time forestry engineer.

We have our challenges finding good people here too - it is interesting though, the bulk of the crooks are around Gringolandia (i.e. where all the North Americans live) - we are way out in the hinterlands so we get good people usually. They may not do a good job sometimes, but it is because they don't know how - not because they are crooks.

[Modat22]

I had a new roof put on last year and I gotta say that was one real quality job and done FAST. I stayed home that day and target practiced with my glock most of the day and I wonder if that had anything to do with it.