Is Youtube creating a dangerous log handling and milling environment??

[DocGP]

I see a bunch of wonderful videos on milling and have picked up a TON of useful information from said videos, most of which are being produced my members here.

HOWEVER, is the urge to be famous that strong?? Seems that everyone who purchases a mill now is posting how to videos from day one.

The video that triggered me was a guy with a brand new "XXXX" mill, brand new tractor, brand new trackhoe, brand new skidder, brand new kiln, brand new implements, etc etc.....  Now I don't begrudge him that at all, but he was bragging that he taught his wife to operate the ( mid sized) track hoe yesterday, and then proceeded to show how he had her with the bucket fully elevated pushing on an 80ft tall beautiful white oak tree while he was under it with a brand new Stihl saw with a 36" bar.   Oh my gosh, how much could go wrong with this!!!  She has NO mucsle memory of what the controls do.  There will be no quick thinking decisions if something starts to lean the wrong way, and I would venture to guess, she wouldn't even know to run until after the tree came down on the hoe........

I have followed nuts319 and from what I have seen, he seems like a seasoned woodsman, and he just recently was almost killed in an accident.  I fear a rash of new youtuber accidents due to this pursuit of fame.

Sorry, just ranting a bit.  I realize it can happen to any of us.  This is a dangerous occupation/hobby.  Also, many thanks to you guys who are so quick to share your knowledge and experience!!

Doc

[SawyerTed]

I believe people do dangerous stuff all the time, most don't record it.

It isn't social media that creates the dangerous situations.  But social media provides a medium for people to display their lack of knowledge and experience (kind words for what I'm really thinking).  Where do the "fail videos" come from? :D

So I suppose the motivation to be content creators, have followers and tap into the "big money" (please hear the sarcasm) is motivation to record themselves doing dangerous stuff. 

There are some digital content creators who do make money.  They build a business that YouTube is but one aspect.  Add in their Amazon store, their Patreon members, endorsements etc plus the tax advantages to shelter their activities they can make money.  It's not a part-time gig for those people. 

EDIT And merchandise for their brand...

[Magicman]

Reading fb responses and watching some videos has taught me a couple of things;  First, there are some incredibly brilliant people in the world and second, they are vastly outnumbered.   :

[Joe Hillmann]

It isn't just milling that is being effected by YouTube.  Just about anything I am interested in(building, small farming,mechanic work)has lots of people just getting started in the craft who also start YouTube channels.  Often they do things I know very little about but still can see they are doing it very wrong and I would like to see an update in a year on how it held up.  But according the the comments many people are taking their advise as if it was gospel.

On the bright side the vast majority of people watching are just dreaming and being entertained.  Very few will actually go out and do the things shown in the video,  and of those very few hopefully most of them know more about it than those who made the video.  But that leaves a very small percentage of people who see the video and will copy it with no idea it is wrong or dangerous.

[Den-Den]

It is possible to learn (not master) a lot of things by watching U-Tube.  Yes, you have to filter out some idiots as Magicman posted about.  I believe any attempt to censor the idiots would ruin the whole thing.  (I don't believe we have the capability to prevent idiots from becoming censors)

[beenthere]

HOWEVER, is the urge to be famous that strong??

Don't think posting videos makes one famous. Some have the talent, but they are few and far between who are "famous" (and not sure what would define that  ;) :D).
A lot of video's are entertaining and it is cheap entertainment. IMO

[SawyerTed]

Sometimes watching YouTube is like watching NASCAR or a busy boat ramp for the wrecks.   :D

[Mooseherder]

I subscribe and watch a few different farmers on YouTube. A couple of them drive me nuts on how they pack potatoes for retail.  Being from potato country and working in a packing house did that to me.   :D
Another guy I like and follow keeps praising Another tuber almost daily.  IMO that guy he is praising doesn't hold a candle on the subject matter.  But overall is a great guy who people get mesmerized with because they don't know the difference.   It works for him. Like people who believe anything put in front of them.  I'm not going to try and correct them.  I've spent my life in production and work improving processes.   I've seen the most profitable and productive behaviors smashed by corporate who thought change was better.  Even driving business away didn't matter because they're never wrong. 

Still better than regular TV shows that often have chainsaw scenes.  It really is a disservice and irresponsible showing for the folks watching a television show or series.

Then there's the guys who use their skidsteers to move cow sludge out of the barns and 2 days later using the same machine to transport food stocks that end up in their farm market.  That is gonna bite some day.

[Ron Wenrich]

Many times when I see how they do things, I say to myself "I wouldn't do it that way". 

[ThisIsNotaStep]

I subscribe and watch a few different farmers on YouTube.   A couple of them drive me nuts on how they pack potatoes for resale.   Being from potato country and working in a packing house did that to me.   :D
Another guy I like and follow keeps praising Another tuber almost daily.  IMO that guy he is praising doesn't hold a candle on the subject matter.  But overall is a great guy who people get mesmerized with because they don't know the difference.   It works for him. Like people who believe anything put in front of them.  I'm not going to try and correct them.  I've spent my life in production and work improving processes.   I've seen the most profitable and productive behaviors smashed by corporate who thought change was better.  Even driving business away didn't matter because they're never wrong.  Still better than regular TV shows that often have chainsaw scenes.  It really is a disservice and irresponsible showing for the folks watching a television show or series.

Then there's the guys who use their skidsteers to move cow sludge out of the barns and 2 days later using the same machine to transport food stocks that end up in their farm market.

Mooseherder ... potatoes = tubers .. lol
When l was younger l worked in a produce warehouse for a couple of summers assembling orders and loading trucks.  A transport load of anything wasn't bad to unload you just worked through it for a few hours .. but .. we had a railway spur line and every now and then a couple of box cars of bagged potatoes would come in.  The forklifts could not pick them up because the bags of adjacent pallets would vibrate together and meld into one giant mass.  Sometimes you would have to fight for 5 minutes to break one free of the hoard. Everyone's mood would be down because you knew what you would be doing for a whole week :-(

What l don't understand is how do they get their hands on that amount of capital to even rent that much equipment?

[jpassardi]

As I understand it, to be a legitimate Sawmill YouTuber one must wear the proper spandex attire... 

[Magicman]

And have a never ending supply of Purple Drank.   

[Old Greenhorn]

I think there are a lot of reasons folks post videos. Certainly one of those is the 'look at me and [how smart I am], [what an expert I am], [the neat stuff I bought], [the neat stuff I made], [ how I know so much more than the trained experts because I read an article and came to a different conclusion], and a dozen other reasons, no matter how subliminal. Then there are those who are trying to teach something about a subject that they believe needs explaining or demonstrating to the less skilled/educated. (I use those videos for fixing car/truck issues and they have helped me a bunch, because I have no interest in becoming an auto mechanic, I just need to replace some parts when they wear out.) Even some of those are either partially wrong, or show a half-ashed approach. I watch a few, you can tell who knows his stuff and who doesn't.
Then there are the guys who post stuff that is downright dangerous and sell it as 'the right way that ALWAYS works for me' (until they wake up dead and wonder what happened. Those worry me, but really, can't other folks figure out these videos are not the example to follow?
BUT when I see that stuff on TV shows, it kind of burns me up. The general public watching TV does not do it to learn how to cut trees or stuff like that and when it is displayed in a 'hold my beer' manner, the general public thinks this is how it's done, and it's NOT. I know a lot of this has to do with the folks in the editing room who has NO IDEA about the subject, but it's more than misleading. I hate it when I look at a tree and decide to walk away because of the hazards and the landowner tells me about how "they saw a guy do one a lot worse than that on TV, but he was good" Makes me want to punch something.

[Mooseherder]

The spandex folks or their relatives may show up here some day.  They gotta make hay while the sun is shining.  On the flip side,  I've known some kids who have taken over their parents successful business and gloat about it.  Good for them, they ran starting on third base and made it to home plate. I've also seen where kids take their parents business to a whole new level. Everyone is dealt a different hand and we really do not know what they've been up against though.   Maybe it's a success story since we haven't had to walk in their shoes.  Most businesses are in the people business if you think about it.  It's an important part of repeat sales.  Nothing is that simple and we should be celebrating everyone's success.

[KWood255]

Reading fb responses and watching some videos has taught me a couple of things;  First, there are some incredibly brilliant people in the world and second, they are vastly outnumbered.   :

I may have to steal this...hahaha. Great explanation MM.

[longtime lurker]

I haven't done anything foolish in a sawmill environment in...Ohhhh about 6 hours back I suppose. Dropped a tape measure down a log in front of a pile of logs,  raining so everything wet and slippery including the ground underrfoot... any log rolling out of that stack and I'd have been in a bother. Calculated assumption of risk and I got out of there fast but yanno... such a silly way to die.

The other side of it is I've personally watched a few tube vids of guys doing something that IMHO were by the book perfect and seen all the expert commentary about how wrong/dangerous it was. Guys felling buttress rainforest species come to mind...  Yeah old mate got no hat no boot but some guy who's cut a gazillion BF of conifers has exactly zero experience to critique how a dude who tackles rainforest species every day does his job.

It's a dangerous business, highly experienced individuals in this industry get hurt or killed every day. Stupid tends to get itself weeded out quick enough anyway... Like breeding cattle the best way to improve the average is thin out the tail.

[Cedarman]

How in the world did we get by before U-Tube?
Personally, I asked people who I thought were experts.  Used the phone a lot.
As has been pointed out U-Tube shows all kinds.

[OlJarhead]

I think in some ways the urge to utilize the medium to earn an income does indeed impact some.  I know some YT sawyers that never milled a board before starting a channel (in fact that's a lot of them) and they got big fast because the growth on YT isn't about what you know.  It's about how you present it, how good you are at it and if you did so at that time when everyone was searching for it.  If you got the vid out and it happened to be a top search and not many others had a vid out then presto bamo you're famous and have 50k, 100k, 300k subs.

Of course, Yoga pants sells so put a pretty gal in yoga pants, film her nice sawdust free form from behind and viola you've got a million subs and are making 100K a month off YT.

I started my journey making videos for my grandsons and wasn't interested in it beyond that, then began making videos for you (yes) to learn what I was doing wrong and how to improve it.  My nature is to learn and teach what I learn.  Then I began to let customers know and eventually I began (thanks to the grandsons) to consider the possibility of earning something for my efforts.  As a result I do indeed earn something today albeit not much.  My best month on YT I earned about $450 off YT alone (which isn't really where the money is) and my best month of earning that included YT as well as affiliate sales thanks to YT was $1200.  So, of course, for those thinking of doing it there is a possible income basket to tap into.

So, why the crazy?  Because crazy sells.  Include shiny new equipment and a wife (preferably good looking and in yoga pants) and you're a winner!

When I see those channels I mark them as 'do not show me this channel' and I move on.  I had to learn they are not in the sawmill (or whatever) genre but rather the 'entertainment (with a side of rear behind in yoga pants or danger) genre' and I'm not.  So I ignore them.

Yes they can be dangerous and I think some DO indeed seek that.  In fact I spoke about that in a live recently as well as a video I think (and I've done a few about yoga pants).  One reason I had to tell myself to stop even thinking about those channels is their not great techniques or videos and their millions subs vs channels I knew that put out good content but only had a few thousand subs.  Then I realized it had everything to do with how YT finds people to watch your videos and I moved on.

Personally, I like to share what I'm doing and what I've learned and I like to admit when I make mistakes etc -- I also make sure to point out that FF is where I learned and continue to learn because I think being real is important but I do, today, earn a living, albeit not much of one, on YT so there is that ;)

If I ever do stupid stuff be sure to let me know! ha! (I have no doubt you will but I suspect I do it faster so you let me slide ).

Cheers from the NON Yoga pants guy who tries NOT to do stupid stuff and actually wants to help others run their sawmills.

[Sixacresand]

I do a lot of searching youtube videos on how to do tasks.  A lot of videos start off with a long talking introduction, sometime half the video, which i mostly skip over.  I just want to SEE how it is done, or do it and talk me through it while doing it.  Unfortunately,  I am part of MM's majority group he mentioned above, so I won't be submitting utube videos.     

[SawyerTed]

OlJarhead, how many hours did it take to record and edit the videos for that $450 month? 

[OlJarhead]

OlJarhead, how many hours did it take to record and edit the videos for that $450 month?

More than most realize!  I can spend anywhere from just a few hours on a video to 1hr per minute of video but in the case of that month I had a short go viral and while the short took me maybe 1 minute to make, the video I made it from took me literally days to make but that was one video out of 12 (I put out 3 per week)...so just figure for the month I worked more hours than a full time job.

But for me it isn't about the hours because I enjoy doing it ;)

[YellowHammer]

Unlike the little of under a hundred thousand subs channels, don't take the bait of "I just want to make videos" on the big channels, or that they are experts, the biggest driver to the folks on the YouTube who publish videos, even and especially some of the Spandex and near naked ones of all kinds, is simple (Naked lady fishing, naked lady shooting a gun, naked lady throwing a cast net, naked lady running a table saw) - is MONEY, and lots of it.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars of net income per year, (not gross, net profit, so multiply their YouTube income by 3X over a real back and mortar company that pushes to make a 30% net, or a restaurant that my get a 10% net profit).  The videos are nothing more than free money direct from the YouTube advertisers, and the filmers make a good living off the videos, whatever "skill" they are selling.  The YouTubers who have more than a couple hundred thousand subs get huge money, more than $10,000 per video, and they publish a couple, three videos a week.  Don't forget they get free equipment, plus clothes, plus...  As you watch the videos, just keep in mind that most likely everything you see in the videos, including the clothes they are wearing, with maybe one or two exceptions, is FREE to them, including the bigger equipment.  That's why it's in the videos...if it's not free to them, it's sponsored..  If the equipment is clean and new, then it definately is.  A guy gets a new dozer suddenly?  He didn't pay full price or may have gotten it for free.  Have you ever seen a YouTuber who does excavating videos whose equipment size go down?  Nope.         

Some sponsors do not support the Spandex Soft P (SSP) channels, they don't want to be associated with that kind of content, but how is that any different than watching the Weather Channel, have you seen some of their "Weather Women?"  Skin = views = advertising money = more paycheck.

As more and more people switch to watching YouTube and Internet content on TV, they move away for conventional channels, such as Direct TV.  "According to the Leichtman Research Group, 1,728,532 Americans canceled their live TV service in the 2nd quarter of 2023. That works out to be over 18,990 people canceling TV every single day. If that trend continues, over 6.9 million Americans will cancel cable TV over the next year."

So where is the advertising money going?  Where is the money that funds the 30 second commercial on Cable TV for the RonCo WoppaChopper Potato Slicer go?  It's applied to YouTube, Facebook, and all the other internet platforms.  Do you think Tractor Supply isn't funding some of those channels "Go into the store, and get whatever you want for the videos"?  Or Deere, or Kubota, or Ford or other main line companies and especially the foreign ones?  Do you think the videos of the guys who say they are "experts" and do a video testing 5 different chainsaw actually bought those?  Or the guy with the new excavator or even bulldozer?  Nope.  Do you think the YouTubers who go to Trade Shows do it to sell their T shirts?  Nope, it's payback of free equipment or hardware.  How many filmers will actually and clearly state "I bought this with my own money and it hurt!"  Listen for it, you may hear it one out of 10 times.  Most likely you will hear "I got this and it was expensive."  Big difference, they didn't pay for that one. Do you think that the guy who blows up his pickup truck actually paid for that truck, or he did, the only reason he blew it up was that he was given a free replacement?

Even with my ugly mug, and my little channel, I get sponsorship requests quite frequently, from companies who make clothes to boots to coffeee, to battery chargers, and yes, even sawmill equipment and anything I can find on some of the Chinese Amazon competitors, including the stupid little micro excavators.  To this point, I turn them all down, except one, because I'm not selling my name for a pair of socks, and I'm not that hungry. 

Anyway this is little sideways to the topic, but there is a reason there is a wide mix of "experts" on the tube, the more skin they show, the more stupid they are, the more views they get by any means, the more money they make, and it's BIG money.  Simple as that.  Youtube actually has video classes on what expressions on the thumbnail will get the most clicks.  Which phrase work best.  What colors get more views.     

[SawyerTed]

Thanks for confirming what I already knew..  Those good videos do take many hours start to finish typically.  I used to teach a short unit on video production when I was teaching high schoolers.  The kids found out how involved even a short PSA 1 minute video can be. 

The financial return on the time invested isn't much but as you mention, for quality content creators, the ROI isn't always in the $!

Upon reflection, YouTubers are like sawmillers, some dabble, some are serious hobbyists, some are serious content producers and some are mega producers with YouTube just part of their operation.  It takes time and equipment to produce a decent video both have their costs, same with a sawmill producing decent lumber. 

[YellowHammer]

Yes, I would say the major negative of a "real" business making videos is the low ROI on time.  $$ per hour return is ridiculously low, the "fun" of doing it is an initial driver, but wears off very quickly after a hundred videos or so.  However, a real business owner must expend time for a reason, and business is business.  Should I spend time filming or should I spend time making a board?

The big channels have film crew, they have editors, they have a staff.  It's a film business. 

In my case, I have none of that, except for the derisive laughter of my wife when I pick up the camera and waste time filming.  But although I kind of like the film making process, for now, it's not totally altruistic, basically I am my own advertiser.  You might be interested to know that even though I have a substantial web presence on my company webpage, probably 20% of my new business now comes from people who said they saw me on the Tube.  I don't make any real money from the Tube, but I do get to advertise my business.  That's where the ROI comes in.  I had a guy last weekend drive from a couple states away to buy $2,000 of my cherry because he "Saw me slice it up on the YouTube."

Did any of you used to watch the Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom?  How many people knew the name of that company because they watched Marlin Perkins get pooped on by a monkey?           

[Mooseherder]

Oh the timing.
I uploaded a couple videos yesterday and got one removed along with a warning.
It was my 8-year-old grandson running the mini-excavator.   He was operating it just fine but that doesn't matter to someone.
I sent in the appeal but my other option was to take a 5 question quiz to strike the warning off my record.


edit: my appeal was immediately denied.