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Author Topic: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed  (Read 2215 times)

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Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2022, 10:11:33 PM »
Started laying out the mortises on the posts. I'm using a story pole. In Japan called a kensao or shakusao (very roughly a "space stick" or "shaku/foot stick." Same idea as in Western framing. I've never done this before so I'm going slowly. A few layout mistakes here and there but easily corrected.
I've also gone back to the joinery model I made last summer for a refresher. I've changed a few joints and added some since then. I also realized that I had to plug and relocate the mortises for access to the threaded rods. Long story but I had to adjust for the slope of the site and decided to reduce the overall height of the shed as a consideration to not to block my neighbors view from their deck.

I moved these posts into the shop for this part.





 

 

I'm also looking at roofing options. I'm probably going with a metal roof, and possibly terne shingles.



Gary

Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2022, 06:33:44 AM »
Considerate of you to no block the neighbor's view! 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2022, 10:41:35 PM »
Not much new to show, yet. I finally have all the main beams dimensioned but when I went back to my drawings to check the layout I discovered I needed to change the floor design, which meant I needed to adjust the floor framing and floor beam joinery layout. Good thing I hadn't started chopping, yet. I also refined the walls and roof which fortunately didn't affect the main framing layout. Here is the latest rendering of the shed. Let's call this V.2.0. There is a lot you don't see: ceiling boards, roof and flooring and wall cladding details. And a bunch of other details not yet decided. It's amazing to me, as a novice, how many decisions have to be made for such a small structure.




Offline aigheadish

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2022, 06:19:55 AM »
"Novice" Hahahahah!
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2022, 10:31:30 PM »
"Novice" Hahahahah!
Well, I've never done a timber frame before but I have made a lot of furniture. Maybe I'll cop to "experienced furniture maker and amateur carpenter."

Not much new to report. As I've been doing the layout I found a few mistakes in my joinery drawings that I've had to go back and correct. One that would have made the king posts about half an inch too short. Not good. And since I milled my ridge beam it bowed about half an inch laterally in the middle. Trying to think through what that means for the rest of the roof layout.
 
I did commit to the roof cladding which will be Quadro panels made of terne by Finemetalrooftech.com.

https://finemetalrooftech.com/products/quadro-panels/

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2022, 01:05:14 AM »
Hopefully you chose the copper panels. Really bring the building together!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2022, 08:49:03 PM »
Well, the copper was a bit over my budget and I was worried about thieves stealing it. I went with terne (modern terne is tin covered stainless steel) which should last 100 years or more, was about half what copper costs, and shouldn't attract thieves. It patinas to soft gray which should look good with weathered wood.

I've started in on the mortises for the connecting boards that collectively are called nuki. They are similar functionally to girts but are thinner and taller and there are more of them than there are girts in western timber frame. The multiples provide the racking resistance that knee braces provide in Western construction. The nuki are colored tan.



 

These are sometimes layed out on the same plane and joined with half height mortise and tenons that overlap at the corner posts. I chose the other option which is to stagger the heights and use wedged half dovetails since I think they are stronger in tension. Although that does remove a little  more wood from the post. Here is one mortise done with a test half dovetail in scrap.









And assembled, but with the post horizontal since I was working on it.



 

There are lots of ways to make mortises. I chose to make a router template that registers with the centerline and use a router with collar to rout to a depth of 16 mm/5/8". That established housing for the nuki and also established a consistent reference for paring the mortise sides square to the surface. Then I augered out much of the waste. Mortises are a nominal 30 mm and the auger is 28 mm which gave me a little room for error in drilling without leaving too much waste to pare. The additional block sitting on top was to gauge the depth. When the drill chuck reached the level of the block I was done.



 

 

I have the mortises all routed and a few left to drill out. Then I'll go on to chopping and paring them square.




Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2022, 10:48:17 PM »
Im a roofing contractor in Eastern Oregon and had a client last summer that wanted copper drip edge and valleys. That bill was 9000 for materials. So I get not going copper I was more joking about the roofing. 
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2022, 12:11:08 PM »
Then you'll like this: for fun I inquired about getting copper shingles, flashing, and ridge cap from a supplier in Japan. The total cost with shipping would have been close to $10,000 per square. The rep and I had a good laugh about that, too!

Offline Tom King

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2022, 01:39:29 PM »
Interesting that they are calling the tin coated stainless Terne. 

There was a company here that sold what they called Terne coated metal for roofing.  It was tin and lead covered regular steel, and had to be painted.  All that I ever knew anything about was standing seam. 

The roofs were commonly called Terne tin, which got changed to being called "turned tin" by most people that didn't understand the brand name being called.  A lot of people, including some historical "experts" still call a standing seam roof "Turned Tin".

That company was Follansbee Steel, and I think went out of business in 2012, put under by the snap together standing seam roofing.

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2022, 04:55:14 PM »
This version of terne is made by Roofinox, which I believe is a German manufacturer. This gives some of the history and different combinations of metals used to make tern over the years.

https://www.roofinox.com/us/for-builders-renovators/terne-for-historical-buildings/


Gary

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2022, 10:40:17 PM »
Anyone have experience using Japanese framing squares?

I am less than an amateur with Western framing squares so I can't really compare them. But I'm getting the hang of the Japanese square, called a sashigane or 指矩. I have a few of different sizes. These two are sizes that are most comparable to my old Stanley square.



 
 

I also have one that is about 6 inches long and one that is about 4 inches long. Those are great for checking mortise walls for square.


Sashigane come with various rules, including shaku system on both sides, metric on both sides, shaku one side and metric the other side, metric and inch scale. In Japan it seems it is still common to use the shaku system in construction layout but materials come in the metric system so they need both. Just like here we mostly lay out in inches and feet but sheet goods tend to come in metric. You have to learn both. In fact Chris Hall convinced the Shinwa corporation, the leading maker of measurement tools in Japan, to make a sashigane in inches and centimeters to be most useful in the West. The standard rules are used both for layout and to calculate and measure angles for roof framing, as in the West.

In addition to regular rule measure in each system, some sashigane come with an additional scale that is the rule times the square root of 2. That is mostly used to calculate the largest beam than can be sawn from a round log. Youtube has videos of that being done. Some have a third set of gradations that is the rule times pi. That is used to measure a circumference give the diameter of a circle. I guess if you are using round logs that would be helpful.

Here is one video of sashigane in use, including a clever way to use them as winding sticks. But they have other layout uses for timber framing




I will also say that their slim dimensions lets me use them as drafting tools.



Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2022, 07:57:20 PM »
Every fall I spend a fair amount of time on eBay adding to my Japanese tool collection. The sashigane is on the list but havent purchased one yet. Been buying planes and chisels. Slowly figuring out whats worth my time or not. 
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline GRadice

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Re: Planning a Japanese inspired garden shed
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2022, 08:57:22 PM »
You didn't ask but depending on what you would use it for, I'd suggest starting with the 30 cm/1 ft version and think of it as combination square rather than a framing square. Large enough to use for timber layout and small enough to use for furniture making and drafting. They cost about $11 dollars new so a small investment to see whether you find it useful. You might have to tweak it for square but I don't find that difficult to do.

Incremental progress. I got all the mortises cut on two posts. One of the corner posts here.





I did have one layout glitch that led to a cutting glitch that required patching. However, I can't seem to find a picture of that.....

Each post seems to be taking me a couple of days to get the mortises chopped. I have four more to go then on to the mortises in the beams.
Gary


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