Ups and downs with a boat.

firefighter ontheside · October 19, 2021, 09:11:09 PM

If you remember we bought a new to us boat a while back after mom and dad's old boat met up with a concrete bridge piling that won. The newer boat has been used several times since. The motor has ran great and it has had some hiccups. This past week mom and dad took in on a several day trip. It started running really bad and wouldn't go more than 2000rpm and was shuddering. I posted about it on a Lund forum and the consensus was spark plugs or fuel filter. Dad purchased new spark plugs, fuel filters and a new fuel line. We replaced all those and took it to a local river to see if we hopefully had it fixed. Well, we didn't. Dad took it to a shop that said they could look at it and called today to say they had it fixed. The injectors were all gummed up. Tomorrow I will pick it up and hope for the best. My son and I are supposed to take it on a trip this coming weekend. When I heard that the motor was malfunctioning, I called the marina where we are going to reserve a rental boat. I sure hope I can call to cancel that.

Southside · October 19, 2021, 09:46:35 PM

I have had amazing luck with Seafoam for carb and injector issues. After a big rain my 4 wheeler, EFI and strictly farm use, daily at that, was running poorly. The tank wasn't left open and it hasn't happened before but I suspected water or gunk as we buy gas in bulk and you never know what might come up from the bottom of a tank even with a filter on the pump. Dumped in a half can of Seafoam twice, cleaned it right up. Maybe overdose the tank and keep a can or two on the boat just in case.

firefighter ontheside · October 19, 2021, 09:55:19 PM

Yeah, when we bought the boat, we knew that it hadn't ran much for the last few years. No doubt the gas was a little bit on the bad side. We had ran sea foam and heat in it trying to clean the system, but I guess it was a little bit far gone. We will put some more sea foam in it.

Southside · October 19, 2021, 10:03:13 PM

If he ran ethanol gas in it and it sat around those injectors may have already been gummed up when you brought her home. I had that happen to a log splitter over the course of a spring and summer when I failed to use Stabil in the gas. Lesson learned.

TroyC · October 19, 2021, 11:09:50 PM

What make, model, and year is the engine? Two or four stroke?

Does the boat have a spin-on fuel/water separator between gas tank and engine?

firefighter ontheside · October 20, 2021, 07:30:29 AM

Its a 2003 Yamaha f115 Four stroke fuel injected. It does have a spin on fuel filter/water separator before the engine. We replaced that on Sunday. It also has a filter on the engine and we replaced that too.

TroyC · October 20, 2021, 03:43:49 PM

Good on you for replacing both fuel filters. Noticed you said you replaced fuel lines, great also. Make sure to replace all of the fuel lines. I've seen many lines where the inside liner separates and will starve the engine for fuel.

My neighbor has the same engine. Helped him replace fuel lines after the fuel pump. We checked and could get rebuilt injectors for about 40.00 ea. I also read they can be disassembled and cleaned with carb cleaner. The orifice in the injectors is really small any ANY debris will clog them. They can stick from gummy residue also. For these reasons try to get a spin on filter with the smallest micron filtration.

I use only non-ethanol in my boats. It cost a little more but you will save a lot on repair bills in the long.

Hope they got it fixed right for you. Happy Boating this weekend!

firefighter ontheside · October 20, 2021, 07:20:47 PM

I brought it home today and backed it down the boat ramp into the river right down the street. Not enough water to launch there, but enough to run the motor under a little bit of a load. It ran fine. We did not replace the fuel line from the tank to the spin on filter/water separator. It sounds like what the shop does is remove your injectors and then installs that he keeps in stock that were sent in for cleaning. I guess you could call them rebuilt. He then sends mine in and then keeps those for the next customer. He said that when the fuel pump goes out its about $1000 to replace.

TroyC · October 20, 2021, 07:57:24 PM

Yes, the fuel pump is expensive on that motor. The high pressure fuel hose I put on my neighbor's engine was north of 100.00 for the hose.

I told him to always store that motor with the trim run all the way down. He was leaving it on the cradle with motor tilted slightly up. In that position the water never completely drains out of the power head. Several months ago his engine was leaking around head gasket. Welding and shaving the heads plus labor was near 3 grand.

Be sure to replace water pump every three years. If the impeller blades break off and get up in the block it causes expensive problems!

YellowHammer · October 20, 2021, 11:37:28 PM

Yamaha's, got to love them. I've got three of them right now, several before these and without doubt they are the most reliable motors I have ever owned. However, they do require a little special TLC.

No matter what fuel you run, be it ethanol pump, non ethanol pump, or even marine gas, the screens and the fuel injectors need routine service. However, they have an almost infinite lifespan, so they almost never go bad, but they almost always will require periodic cleaning, which is easy to do. There's lot of videos on how to remove them, but basically, pop a couple screws off the fuel rail, and the little buggers come out easily like pulling teeth, one by one. Number them with a Sharpie, put them in a ziplock bag, send them to any one of a dozen places in Florida, and they will clean the screens and tips, flow test them and send them back for very little money. Then pop them back in, and the motor runs like new. Since you have an older motor, these companies will also just sell you pre cleaned injectors out of their inventory. Any reputable cleaning company will send a pre and post cleaning test report for each injector.

The external spin on prefilter is important, and it needs to be a Yamaha or Racor, 5 micron, 10 at the most, preferably one with a clear bowl water separator. The one under the cowl needs changing about once a year. All is very easy to do.

Use only Yamaha or Mercury marine oils and filters (they are interchangeable) because they put lots of anti corrosion additives and conditioners in the 4 stroke marine oils that does magic to protect the engines.

I had the two Yamahas on my Pursuit saltwater boat in for their 1,000 hour service overhaul a couple years ago and the mechanic said they were in virtually perfect condition, dyno tested almost as if brand new, although they changed the timing belt and a bunch of other things. They have 1,400 hours in them now and they still run like a top.

If you have a digital tach for your motor, you can easily see when the injectors are becoming clogged, as you will lose about 100 rpm consistently, at idle. For example, the two in my Pursuit idle at 700 rpm when clean, and at 600 when dirty. So I knew when to clean them before the next trip, and well before they start missing.

firefighter ontheside · October 21, 2021, 08:26:50 AM

Thanks for the info YH. We have been fans of Yamaha ever since dad put the original 60 on his old boat. That was not fuel injected and then he went to the fuel injected 70 horse. When looking for this boat, dad insisted on a yamaha. It took a long time to find the right boat/motor combo. I'm quite sure this one will work out well. It just needs some use as the previous owner didn't use it a lot. He is a tournament fishing guy and he always fished out of his buddy's bigger bass boat.

Its hard to find ethanol free gas around here. What you describe with the injectors sounds exactly like what the shop did. Took ours off and sent in and then installed others that he had already received back.
I'll have it on the water tomorrow and I'm hoping it runs better than it has in the whole time we've had it.

YellowHammer · October 21, 2021, 09:53:49 AM

Yes, that sounds like what the mechanic did. It's very easy, actually about like changing spark plugs.

There is another magic product that Yamaha produces that goes in all my engines, no matter what fuel I use and it's Yamaha Ring Free. It's specially formulated for ethanol fuels by Yamaha and one bottle treats about 130 gallons, which is what we burn every couple days on the ocean. However, it works for any fuel. This stuff is the gold standard and is the only additive warrantied for use by Yamaha, which should say something. It is that good.

Sometimes you just have to run ethanol fuels, but if you do, the key is to not let it get stale, and realize that since it is hygroscopic and a solvent, it will pull any water in your fuel tank into the fuel (hence the water separator) and it will also dissolve any gum or deposits in the fuel tank and lines and deliver that crud to the injectors. That's why ethanol is the main ingredient in the red STP fuel treatment, that's what it does. I use ethanol pump gas, non ethanol pump gas (better) and marine fuel (better but sometimes dirty) interchangeably as I can get it. With Yamaha's, it's all about keeping the injectors clean using fine mesh filters and fresh fuel and they will be happy.

I remember looong ago, when we were buying our first offshore boat, we were looking at one equipped with Suzuki's. I asked the salesman if he though they would be reliable to repeatedly steam the the edge of the Gulf of Mexico continental shelf, called the "Edge" and as a salesman, he initially hesitated and reservedly said "Sure." I pressed him an little further, and asked him if he thought I should look at a different boat that had Yamaha engines on the stern and he looked at me, knew the consequences as a salesman, and said "Yes, well, they a Yamaha's, nothing else is close." Enough said. He lost the sale, I sold my Mercury equipped boat, and got the Yamaha's.

That being said, I do have a Mercury on my Ranger bass boat. It's a high performance, vapor trail leaving, warp speed motor, and I love driving it (flying it) across a calm lake at 75 mph. It's a pure monster and very reliable. I've had many Mercs in my life, and they are good engines, but they are not Yamaha's, except during the time period they started buying their power heads and other components from Yamaha.

firefighter ontheside · October 21, 2021, 02:22:56 PM

The shop told me to use Blue sta-bil, but I will look for the Yamaha ring free.

Old Greenhorn · October 21, 2021, 03:26:59 PM

Wait a sec and back up that ruck. WHAT is Blue Sta-bil? Never heard of it or saw it. What is the deal with that? Just trying to stay current and/or follow an interesting conversation.

Ljohnsaw · October 21, 2021, 03:30:55 PM

Soooo, would Ring Free be something to add to my chainsaw gas can as well to compensate for the ethanol gas?

Magicman · October 21, 2021, 04:05:22 PM

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 21, 2021, 03:26:59 PMWait a sec and back up that ruck. WHAT is Blue Sta-bil?

LINK

firefighter ontheside · October 21, 2021, 04:06:54 PM

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on October 21, 2021, 03:26:59 PM
Wait a sec and back up that ruck. WHAT is Blue Sta-bil? Never heard of it or saw it. What is the deal with that? Just trying to stay current and/or follow an interesting conversation.

Blue is the marine version, designed for boat motors. I doubt there is much difference with the regular sta-bil.

firefighter ontheside · October 21, 2021, 04:08:38 PM

Quote from: ljohnsaw on October 21, 2021, 03:30:55 PM
Soooo, would Ring Free be something to add to my chainsaw gas can as well to compensate for the ethanol gas?

You probably could use it. It's probably not much different than sta-bil.

YellowHammer · October 21, 2021, 04:42:57 PM

From what I understand, Red or Regular Stabil is a basic fuel storage stabilizer targeted for ethanol fuels in most fuel systems, land or marine based. The Blue Marine Stabil has some additional additives to reduce the risk of corrosion of ethanol fuels, and is targeted toward fuels used in marine environments, which are much more susceptible to corrosion. So these products are more targeted toward fuel chemistry and stabilization.

Ring Free is a fuel additive that is mainly targeted toward the engine, removing deposits in the rings (so is called ring free) and combustion chamber. It is more like Sea Foam, but without some of the detrimental effects of seafoam in marine engines.

So Stabil treats the fuel, Ring Free treats the engine.

I use both in the last tank of gas before setting up the boat for the winter.

I do not know how Ring Free would work in higher temperature air cooled engines as it is formulated for water cooled outboards.

jb616 · October 21, 2021, 07:39:34 PM

Quote from: ljohnsaw on October 21, 2021, 03:30:55 PM
Soooo, would Ring Free be something to add to my chainsaw gas can as well to compensate for the ethanol gas?

Don't compensate for ethanol, don't buy it for small equipment if you don't have to. I would rather pay an extra buck a gallon than have to bring it in the shop at $75 to $100/hour..my $.02

Ron Scott · October 22, 2021, 05:11:06 PM

I've been told that the two best days to own a boat is the "day that you buy it and the day that you sell it". ;)

YellowHammer · October 22, 2021, 08:17:34 PM

Things happen but maintenance is paramount.

Some of the most memorable times I've ever had was on a boat. Here's a couple of pictures I took just a couple weeks ago. It's hard to put into words, but if you'll notice, we are going almost due North in the Gulf Of Mexico and there is no land in sight. We spent the day fishing about 30 or so miles offshore, out of sight of land, out where "Thar be sea monsters" and coming home after a successful trip. It's a great feeling.