Chipping / clearcuts

[Peck]

I am about to have my 50 acre woods selective cut. I am also going to have about 7 acres clear cut. The logger tells me he can run the small stuff thru his chipper.  He will also chip the tops of the saw log trees. He sells the chips. Is there enough money in chips to create revenue for me? I am not real clear on that. If it wasn't for my saw logs, would I have to pay him to clear cut or would I make money? Thank you

[Kevin]

One of the arborists might add to this but many places won't buy the chips because of transplanting disease from one area to the next.
You would want to make sure you have them sold before paying someone to process them I would think.
The small stuff here gets sold as pulp.

[SwampDonkey]

Pulp mills here except the chips if the wood was debarked first, otherwise places like the Fort Fairfield electric generation plant would except it for thier boilers. Some pulpmills may take it as hog fuel for power generation for thier plant. I know Saint Anne Pulp and Paper consumes as much electricity at a 60,000 population town per day, so they generate power off their bark and waste.

Sounds like what your going to get from the chips is hog fuel unless the limbs get debarked. In that case there isn't much profit for the owner, but there shouldn't be a charge to you. Otherwise let the tops rot. Hardwood tops break down quickly. By the time you want to do a PCT the ground will be clean.

[Ron Scott]

Who is he selling the chips to and for what use, cogen fuel wood?

The logger should be paying you a stumpage price for all mechantable products that you permit taken off your 50 acres, sawlogs, pulpwood,and chips.

It would depend upon how you are making the sale whether by lump sum (paid before cutting) or scaled sale (products are measured or weighed for payment after harvest) as to how you want to be paid.

Have a written contract with the logger on how the harvest is to be done and how your will be paid.  i.e. only variable length logging will be allowed in your selective harvest area with no logs longer than 17 feet forwarded. Tree length skidding will be allowed only in the aspen clear-cut areas. Chipping might not be a good idea in your selective harvest area if residual trees will be damaged. It sounds like maybe tree length skidding is intended there if tops are to be chipped.

Also have a performance bond to insure good performance and that will cover any possible damages that are left uncorrected.

Where are you located? You might want to have the local Conservation District Forester look over your 50 acres for proper planning to meet your objectives.

[woodmills1]

Most guys around here want to get paid for chipping.  Some, however are set up to sell chips and will do chipping for the money they get from the chips.  If this is the case you might want to watch that some wood that might be good for other use doesn't end up getting chipped.

[SwampDonkey]

I agree woodmills. If that contractor is just chipping for hog fuel, and I strongly suggest he is if he doesn't bring along a flail debarker, don't expect much for stumpage. Just don't get talked into paying him to chip it though unless he's doing it as an additional service beyond your stumpage contract. The contractor isn't likely to chip higher valued products unless he's gettin some outlandish deal for the chips. Even pulpwood is worth more than hog fuel.

@ Peck
I'de also strongly recommend you follow Ron's suggestions also, because its seems your inexperienced, judging from your post.

cheers

[Peck]

Inexperienced I am, your opinions are greatly appreciated. The logger sells the chips to a local power plant for fuel. All material to be chipped will have to be dragged out of the woods to the chipper. He did not mention anything about de-barking. Nor did not mention how he would get the trees to the chipper, I assumed that he would cut the tops into manageable sizes, better clairify that. What is Hog Fuel? & Stumpage?  Thanks

[SwampDonkey]

Peck:

Hog fuel is bye product from mills that can't be used as pulp because of bark content and foreign material. Its used to generate power and in heating plants. Stumpage is a portion of the market value of wood products payable to the owner of the wood. Its typically 20% to 50% of the value of the product. The lower percentage is paid for the least valuable products and the higher percentage is paid to the higher valued products such as veneer. I would say your contractor will be bringing the wood out treelength (limbs and all) and buckin it roadside and then feeding the chipper from there. For hog fuel $5 - 6 a ton would be reasonable. For other product pricing in your areas you need to contact your district forester or ranger. Here where I live at we have marketing boards that post products by mill and their pricing. The board handles all scale bills from the mills and cuts the cheques for the trucker, the wood cutter and the owner. 1.7% of sales pay wages and 0.5% go to forest management as well as from mill donantions. You can see market examples here:

http://www.cvwpa.ca

stumpage example here
http://www.snbwoodcoop.com/woodlotadvance/Pages/so-what's%20stumpage%20going%20for.htm

$$CDN pricing on stumpage

For some explanation on selling standing timber and contracts click below:

http://www.klondikekonsulting.com/Website/silviculture.htm

click on the pdf link for a document called 'Sell Standing Timber'

[Ron Scott]

Peck,

Where are you located? In simple terms stumpage here is the price paid to the landowner for the standing tree on the stump based on the individual species market values.

Most commercial chipping usually involves tree length skidding the entire or a"whack" of trees out to a landing/ chipping area where the chipper is set up.

Look through the "Timber Harvesting and Equipment Thread" here on the Forum and you will see some chipping operations as well as short wood logging, and tree length operations like we are talking about. It should help youir understanding some.

Again, a ligger may like to tree length your hardwood stand, but if it is a closed canopy high quality hardwoods, I would not a recommend tree lengthing operation just to get the full tree out for chipping the limbs and topwood.

It is better to leave the slash looped and scattered over the harvest area for soil protection and protection against deer bowsing etc. That nonmonitary value to your stand will be worth more than the small monitary value you might receive for the chips.  

Again, seek out the help of a local professional forester before you commit to anything.

[Peck]

Saginaw county Michigan is my location. Thank you for all the info.

[Ron Scott]

Peck,

You have a Conservation Forester that covers Huron, Saginaw, and Tuscola Counties:

Renae Essenmacher
1469 S. Van Dyke
Bad Axe, MI 48413

517-269-9540, ext. 3

You might want to seek out some free advice on site.