help with bowl turning

[Dana]

As some of you know I just bought a lathe. I have turned a spindle and a vase with no problems. Now I decided to try to turn a bowl. I glued up three bowl blanks on 1' pine backer plates. I used one layer of newspaper to keep the bowl off the backer. The glue is TightBondII. Today I started to turn a piece of Elm and after a few minutes it seperated from the backer plate and fell on the floor. Then I tried a piece of Black Ash and that came off a few minutes later. The last piece I have is a larger block of Maple I don't want to see that come off. The lathe is turning at 300 rpm and I am using the large gouge trying to round the outside first. Any suggestions?

[Radar67]

How are you fastening the blank to the lathe? Is it between the centers, did you get a chuck (3 or 4 jaw), are you using a faceplate?

I use a four jaw chuck and start out by drilling a 1 7/8 inch hole in the side of the blank that will be the bowl opening. I'll chuck it up, turn the outside to shape, cut a recess for the chuck on the bottom of the bowl, then turn the blank around. I cut the inside of the bowl out last.

[Dana]

How are you fastening the blank to the lathe? Is it between the centers, did you get a chuck (3 or 4 jaw), are you using a faceplate?

Radar I used a faceplate. I didn't use the tailpiece to help stabilize the piece. Is that your recommendation. The piece wasn't "rounded off on the band saw either. Think of a piece of split firewood  attached to the faceplate and you have it. I will post a picture of the maple in a while.

I didn't get a chuck yet. Tomorrow I'm going to Harbor Freight to look at a 3 Jaw chuck they have. Here is a link to it.http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4486  Do you think it will work until I get the Grizzle chuck?

[Dana]

This is the maple blank and what I start with. The screws aren't installed in the faceplate. Other wise it is ready to turn?



Here's the photo of the Black Ash that delaminated from the backer board on the face plate.

[pigman]

You need to round that blank some before trying to turn it. Use a bandsaw, chainsaw, axe or something. Also, use the tail stock until you get the blank round.

[Radar67]

Yes, you have to use the tailstock without a 3 or 4 jaw chuck. The one you linked to, I would use it for very small stuff, like 6 inches and under. Honestly, it doesn't look too sturdy.

I would eliminate the paper, glue the scrap straight to the block and use the tailstock. You can always turn a little off the block once you get it rounded up. I played with just the faceplates and centers at first, but now rely exclusively on my 4 jaw chuck for bowls.

[Dana]

Pigman I kind of thought I should round it off. But then I saw a photo of some square bowls someone turned and decided it wasn't neccessary. : I had to learn the hard way.
Stew, Maybe I should save my money and not get the chuck I mentioned? I think it was ment more for their small metal lathes than for wood.
I also thought that the paper was required to keep the two glued woods seperated. Would you use a parting tool to do this then?

[Radar67]

If the rest of the bowl is done, parting it off on the lathe is about the best way. There is another way to do it, but you have to have another set of chuck jaws to open up wide enough to hold the outside of the bowl.

[Tom]

I never messed with gluing a piece of wood to the blank.  I put the blank onto the faceplate with screws and start turning, using the tailstock for support until it is balanced.  I screw the faceplate onto the pith side of the blank.  The side that will eventually be the top.  I shape the outside of the bowl some, flatten the *bottom and hold a pencil to it as the blank spins.  That marks the center.  then I turn the blank around, screw it onto the faceplate from the bottom and turn the inside of the bowl. 


When you reach this point, you can turn the inside and the outside (again) without rechucking it.

I turned mostly green bowls and refinished later.   That means that your first turning is quite thick so that it will survive the drying.

[tyb525]

I do as Tom does, except when I hollow it out I attach it using a chuck in a recess instead of a screwed on faceplate.

[Dana]

Tom to avoid screw holes you must use a larger than otherwise required block? My concern is leaving screw holes in a finished piece.

[turningfool]

i'd definitely round it up some by whatever means possible first,even at only 300 rpm it would be spooky..also you are turning side grain and must use a bowl gouge,thats nice and sharp with very light cuts..as far as the gluing goes your wood block is probably very dry vs the wood 1/2 log that you are turning,which ,even tho spalted is probably still pretty high in moisture content ,and so in turn your not getting a good seal

[Lud]

Forget the paper at this stage, Dana.  I find the rounder the block the less roughing out beats you up.  Adjust your toolrest as close as you can as it puts the leverage to your advantage instead of the wood block's. There's a lot of shock for you to absorb sticking your tool in a highspeed out of round.  Protect yourself.

I got a tap that lets me thread a hole in a blank in a few minutes that is very strong yet I still support with the tail stock.  I'll even run big flat drill bit in a Jacob's chuck thru the bark so the tail stock point seats in hard wood .  Put the faceshield on at the start and always testspin before turning it on.

And , like Radar, I then turn the recess for the chuck and the outside of the bowl ,  even sanding the base out to 600 before I reverse and start to go inside.  To some extent it is like turning two different bowls ; an the best outside bowl the block will let you have  married up to the best inside bowl you can get, balanced as best you can and finished as fine as time and your patience allows.

You got to have a bowl gouge  for bowls.  Learn to get your tool sharp.  There's a lot of satisfaction going back to the lathe with a newly sharpened tool and having it work better than minutes ago when it was workin' hard.

Idn't great?  8) 8) 8)

[Tom]

Dana,
we close the screw holes with plugs cut from the same wood.  Sometimes we would cut plugs from contrasting woods.  Sometimes we would just part the bowl from the faceplate by knowing  how long the screws were and staying above them. 

My little brother, Charlie, uses a jaw chuck to avoid the screws after he has turned the bowl around.

Using a faceplate and screws makes me feel a lot more comfortable when turning large diameters.

[Dana]

TurningFool, you are right the wood was wetter on the bowl than the backer. Lud and T.F. I will have to get a bowl gouge I guess that there are a few more things to spend money on. Tom plugs cut from a contrasting wood is an interesting idea to get rid of the screw holes.

I didn't get the chuck at Harbor Freight yesterday. They didn't have any no did they have a mt2 drill chuck for the lathe.

[turningfool]

when i first started turning,the screw hole dilemma bothered me too..but now i just turn them away..you almost have to envision your 1/2 log as a finished piece in your minds eyes before you start and tweak it from there

[turningfool]

heres a coupla small projects,i started on last fall,yesterday was nice so i wanted to play in the shop some















....charlevoix would be a good drive  on a nice day for me iffin you'd like some pointers

[Dana]

T.F. I may need to take you up on that offer. I think if I cut the blanks round and use the tailstock for support I should be able to make some progress. It was my understanding that a bowl gouge was only needed for the inside of a bowl not the outside? Anyway to make my own?
Nice turnings by the way. Does the Box Elder in Michigan have that much redness in it?

[turningfool]

yes dana,it does on occasion..personally i prefer a bowl gouge to a roughing gouge almost everytime,be it inside or out..i do mostly faceplate work and cut a chuck recess most of the time..but not always as you can see by yesterdays projects..but for larger diameters i feel its held more securely with a recess..looks more finished too in my opinion

[tyb525]

TF, I prefer the recess method also. I have heard it said that a tenon is stronger, but I really don't see how that could be.

[Lud]

TYB, the tenon is stronger theoretically as the wood will only compress so far. and can't escape the chuck's jaws.  Plus it can be turned off for a smooth bottom.   I like the recess too  ....but I've had a few fracture,  blowing out a piece of weak grain on the rim of the recess .  Particularly if I'm trying to get away with a shallow recess.  Using a dovetail cut, you can turn platters,  plates, etc. with very little depth on a recess.

I've had some 40  pounders fly off the lathe and go 6-8 feet.  You want to stay out of their line of flight,  right,  Charlie?

[Dodgy Loner]

In my experience, a turned recess is much stronger than a tenon for facework.  I use both to some extent, but when I'm turning larger bowls, I always use a recess.  The only time I've had one fail is when I left too little wood outside the recess.  On the other hand, I've had tenons fail on many occasions even when I made them as wide and as deep as my chuck would allow.  For centerwork, though, the tenon would definitely be stronger.

[metalspinner]

If the piece of wood being turned is rather small and thin and you want to maintain maximum thickness, glueing a sacrificial block to the bottom after it is turned is the way to go.  The glued on block becomes the tenon that the chuck jaws hold to hollow out the interior.  That does, however, leave the additional process of removing the glue block later.  But for  certain small blocks and designs, it's the only way to go.

Using a recess to hold the bowl for hollowing has the additional benefit of rechucking the bowl at a later date for refinishing.

[Fla._Deadheader]

When I was building Banjos, back in the last century, I would glue up rings, glue them together, and, when ready to turn, glue the bowl to a plywood piece screwed onto a faceplate.

   I used brown paper bag between the bowl and plywood. Everything was dry, and it worked very well. When finished turning, you simply separate the paper with a sharp thin knife, and a small thin chisel.

  Now, I use the screw to the faceplate, and tailstock to get the piece round as possible, before turning the actual shape.

  HOW does one go about turning the oblong bowls ???  Just can't get my head wrapped around that one, EH ???

[Burlkraft]

http://www.volmer---ovaldrehen.de/_private/4Oval%20Chuck%20and%20Ovalturning.html


A friend of mine bought the VicMarc chuck at the AAW symposium last year.

2K !!!!!

I talked with him last week and he still has not figured it out.
There sits one DanG expensive chuck     

He said I could 'prolly buy it cheap at his estate sale  :  :

[tyb525]

DH, Are you talking about natural-edge bowls?

[Fla._Deadheader]

I'm not.  : :

  I have seen oblong turned bowls. Like taking a limb and turning the center of it, so you have a hollowed out limb, something like a canoe ???

[metalspinner]

I've seen a video clip of a picture frame shop turning oval frames. That was their specialty. It was really cool.  I will try to hunt down the video to get more specific info.

Edit...

Here is a link to a fella that made his own oval lathe...

http://www.ovalturnlathe.com/index.html

[turningfool]

how goes the battle with the lathe dana..should i drive up some nice day?

[Dana]

T.F. I haven't turned anything since making starting this post. We have lost a lot of our snow and I've been doing outside work. The other day I was going to work on turning a bowl again but had left the blank inside the house and it had dried enough to check all the way through the entire blank.

[turningfool]

been down that road disappointing taint it :-\

[Dana]

been down that road disappointing taint it :-\

Yes it is. What are the methods used to keep this from happening? The same as with lumber, preparing the ends with paint, anchor seal or ?

[Lud]

Anchorseal any endgrain after cutting a blank.  Cut a bunch and give them a few months.  Rough out a few to a thick wall and seal those and let them dry for a few months.  Cut chuck sockets a little big to allow for shrinkage.

Think about possible drying closets/rooms you could arrange.   have fun.  Haven't met a woman yet who does'nt like wood bowls.  

[turningfool]

all depends..if i'm in a hurry to dry a blank ,i use pentacryl..if not than as lud mentioned anchorseals the way to go.but both methods are for green wood,dont know how either would fare on heavily spalted woods as the moisture contents is screwy,nearly dry here and saturated there type of thing

[CHARLIE]

Right or wrong, here is how I turn a bowl.  I do use a 4 jaw chuck.
1) Cut several circles of 1/4" hardboard.  A 4 inch, 6 inch, 8 inch, 10 inch and 12 inch diameters with a sheet metal screw dead center.
2) Place chunk of log on bandsaw table with barkside up and flat, sawn side down. Screw the appropriate sized circle of hardboard into the bark. Use the circle as a guide to cut the half log into a round bowl blank. Keep your hands out of the bandsaw blade! Don't ask me why I know this.
3) Put bowl blank between centers, true it up. Take small cuts until it's running true and smooth. Then rough shape the outside of your bowl and cut a tenon on the bottom. Continut to work on the shape of the bowl until it is close to finished.
4) Transfer to your 4 jaw chuck clamping it firmly by the tenon. Finish turning the outside of the bowl and sand it nice and smooth.
5) Remove wood from the center of the bowl blank and work your way to the edge and deeper with each cut. Take your time.  Keep the inside curve the same as the outside curve.
6) Use a homemade depth measuring stick to make sure you don't turn through the bottom of the bowl. Sand very smooth.  I finish most of my bowls on the lathe and apply a finish to all but the bottom at this point. But you can wait and finish the bowl off the lather too.
7) Remove bowl from chuck. Fasten a disk of wood that will fit the bottom of your bowl to a 1 inch dowel. Put the dowel into your 4 jaw chuck and true up the disk. Glue some rubber from an old mouse pad onto the disk.
8 ) Put the inside of the bowl against the padded disk and move the tailpiece up to the center of the bottom (You should still have the center hole there from when you were turning between centers).  Tighten up the tailpiece to hold the bowl tight against the padded disk. Turn on the lathe and check if the bowl is running true. If not turn off lathe, move bowl a little and try again until bowl is running true.
9) Start turning the bottom except for the nub (about 1/2 inch) that the tailpiece is against.  Sand bottom smooth. Remove bowl from lathe.
10) Use a chisel and cut the 1/2" nub off the bottom a little proud of it. Use chisel to carefully shave a little more wood off and then sand smooth to match the rest of the bottom. You now have a bowl.

[CHARLIE]

If I were to use a faceplate. I'd do steps 1, 2 and 3 above.  When I turned the tenon, I'd turn it the same size as the chuck and turn a nub of wood in the center of the tenon that would fit snug into the center hole of the faceplate. Remove the bowl shaped blank from the lathe and slip the center hole of the faceplate over the nub of wood. That easily assures you that your faceplate is dead center. Then screw the faceplate to the bottom of the tenon. Wnen finished hollowing out the bowl and finish sanding it, remove bowl from the lathe, take the faceplate off and proceed with steps 7 through 10 from above instructions.

Everyone has their own method but that is mine.

[turningfool]

I opted for the recess yesterday when i turned this quilted maple hollow form,it gives it a more finished appearance in my opinion,and it can all be done on the lathe vs hand sanding and finishing after parting off the tenon





..HAPPY TURNING

[CHARLIE]

TF, that is some mighty purty maple.

[turningfool]

charlie..i'll agree with you there butt ugly on the stump but pretty awesome looking inside

[Burlkraft]

Awesome wood and nice turning TF   8)  8)  8)

[turningfool]

ty,burlcraft..dana..any progress on the lathe project?

[Burlkraft]

I was turnin' a bit today. Shudda stayed in the house.    : :    I glued up some real purdy but check challenged blanks for a special Turn And Burn project.


If I had a stove in my shop like Pigman they wudda become heat  :D :D :D

[CHARLIE]

I know those type of days well. Some days when things just ain't goin' well, I shut everything down, lock the shop and go do something else.  I've found that when the stars ain't lined up right and the moon is out of phase, there just ain't no use doing any woodworking. 

[Dana]

I roughed out an Elm limb yesterday. Didn't have time to do more than that.

[tyb525]

TF, I only have a picture of one of my bowls on here. One of my first, it's pretty simple.

[fishpharmer]

Wow, some nice looking work here.  I gotta stay away from this thread.  Makes me wanna start a new hobby.  Ty you have many talents for such a young fella.  Stick with it.  You gonna be great ;D

[CHARLIE]

Very nice job on that bowl Ty!  Nice finish too.  Looks like Box Elder, only guessing though.  I wish I had started turning when I was 17.  I missed out on a whole lot of years of fun.

[tyb525]

It's marblewood. I wouldn't ordinarily use an exotic wood, but this was done for a lady that wanted a bowl made with an exotic wood, and marblewood was what she chose. It turned very good, and I was able to get a very smooth finish on it.

Fish and Charlie, thank you I like to have my hands in everything. :D

Turningfool, I remember you posted a picture of some snakewood logs you got, have you done anything with them yet?

Dana, make sure you get some pictures up! I always like to see others work.

[CHARLIE]

Ty, I've turned a few exotic woods but I turn mostly domestic woods for 3 reasons.

1. It's plentiful and free.
2. I've seen some beautiful grains that rival any exotics.
3. It's free
l

[turningfool]

great looking bowl tyb,and charlies right domestics are the best ,tried two snakwood bowls thus far and they checked immediately,so sold the rest of it on ebay...lol someday i'll learn to use backyard woods exclusivley

[tyb525]

I agree with charlie.

[turningfool]

my best friend peewee(my dog of 17 years) died sunday morning..sure do miss the little guy..incorporated the quilted maple hollow form shown earlier on here and made a tiger stripe maple cover for it,its blonde..like he was

[Dana]

T.F. sorry to hear about your dog. We lost ours a couple years ago and just got another last fall.

[DR Buck]

Some day in the near future I plan on trying to fasten a chunk of wood to a motor and spin the crapola out of it and stick a cutting tool into it.  :D :D

One of the things I have never done is turn something on a lathe.   My new shop is almost done.  (I'll post pictures and start a new thread when it is ready.)   I bought a 36" lathe about 10 years ago at an auction.  It's been up on the rafters of my old shop (storage building) since it came home.  I've even purchased a set of gouges to use with it.  They're still in the box that they were shipped in.  :     I know nothing of using a lathe.  I guess I'll be buying a few books and posting questions here.   

I'm still having emotional issues with spinning wood.   ;)  Not as much when considering using a regular lathe compared to the Wood-Mizer  'LatheMizer'.   I still can't figure out how anyone thought it was a good idea to put a log on a sawmill, spin it real fast and then run your blade into it.   :D :D :D      Should I  pick up an old football helmet to wear?  :D

[tyb525]

DR the thought of sticking a saw blade into a spinning piece of wood is also hard for me to comprehend. ???

[CHARLIE]

DR_Buck, once I started woodturning, all my other woodworking suffered 'cause turning wood is so much fun.  The best thing youi can do is join a woodturning club in your area. They'll help you with the basics and more. It's best to learn from people with experience than to read a book and try it.  Once you get the basics down, books and DVDs are good.
I can't guarantee it but if you tell me your city, I might be able to tell you of a club nearby. 

[beenthere]

I still can't figure out how anyone thought it was a good idea to put a log on a sawmill, spin it real fast and then run your blade into it.   

the thought of sticking a saw blade into a spinning piece of wood is also hard for me to comprehend

Me thinks that is not a good description of how WM does it. 

[DR Buck]

I still can't figure out how anyone thought it was a good idea to put a log on a sawmill, spin it real fast and then run your blade into it.   

the thought of sticking a saw blade into a spinning piece of wood is also hard for me to comprehend

Me thinks that is not a good description of how WM does it. 

Don't get me wrong.  I think the 'LatheMizer' is way cool.   8)    I want one and am more likely to use it than a regular lathe.  I just have trouble understanding how the guy that tried it first came up with the idea and why he thought it wise to do.  ???

[Burlkraft]

I did a little flinchin' when I used mine the first time   

But it actually works good and is fun once ya get used to it.  ;D  ;D

[metalspinner]

I just have trouble understanding how the guy that tried it first came up with the idea and why he thought it wise to do. 

That's one of those "Ah Ha!" moments that i live for.  I bet the fella that thought of that was laying in bed at 2AM and woke his wife up to tell her. :D  then got the  : : and a "very nice , Dear."

[Dana]

Thanks to all of you who helped me with this. I turned this small burl a few weeks ago. 

[CHARLIE]

Dana, you did a fine job with that burl.  I like the way you left the outside natural. It sure has some pretty grain on the inside.  How did you finish the bottom?  Nice job! 8)

[Dana]

Dana,  How did you finish the bottom?  Nice job! 8)

I started out by mounting the faceplate on what would become the inside of the bowl. Turned it just enough to have a flat area for the remounting of the faceplate. I only used the one center screw with the faceplate and didn't bother hiding that screw hole.

[Patty]

Wow, you did an excellent job Dana. The bowl is beautiful! What kind of wood is the burl?

[Dana]

Patty, It's soft maple, thanks for the compliment.