My Ford F250 QUIT

[etat]

  My truck just QUIT.  It's been and always has run perfect. Always runs real good oil pressure.  Never been run hot.  I just serviced it and put on new brakes and new tires.  Just a little while ago it started losing power and slowing down.  So I stopped.  Checked all fluids and everything fine.  Cranked it up and it started running rough, missing.  My first thought was to drain the fuel filter.  Thought maybe it had water in it.  Didn't change the sound at all.  I continued to let it run for a minute.  I cut it off, and it won't crank back.  It'll hit just a little bit, but when it does it sounds BAD.  Wouldn't crank and I quit.  Late 99 F250 Diesel.  A guy stopped driving a dodge with a Cummings in it and said his did something similar and it was the injector pump.  Said it cost him 3 grand to fix. 

I have no idea other than to call someone to come get and fix it.  Under that hood is way over my head.  Ideas spinning around are bad fuel or injector pump, some kind of sensor or something?   Anyways, somethings bad wrong.  I can' imagine the motor just went bad for no reason.

[Tom_Averwater]

I've got a 97 ford diesel that up and quit on me one time . It just died . It turned out to be the cam position sensor. It tells the pump when to spray fuel. It is located on the front of the block. It costs about  $ 200. at the ford dealer, half that at International . Hope this helps. Tom

[ScottAR]

cam sensor would be my guess as well...   I take mine to IH as parts and labor are about half. 

[etat]

THANKS for the heads up.  The dealerships are all closed today, however as  I write this my kids are on their way to a parts store that says they have one in stock for just over a hundred bucks.  And my headache I was a getting is starting to settle down cause after studying this some it sounds exactly like my problem.  Again thanks!

The Forestry Forum and the people on it are the GREATEST!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WeeksvilleWoodWorx]

What does that want to be son in law, want to be mechanic have to say ;D

Brian

[ScottAR]

WoodWorx! He just got through sayin' his headache was goin' down.  Don't be starting up a new one...   ;D :D ;)

[etat]

I put on the new sensor and it still won't crank.  To me it's now acting like it isn't getting any fuel at all.  A squirt of either and it'd hit, but I didn't do to much of it.  I still remember what AD said about blowing the manifold off of his tractor.   

Talked to the little skumbag of a boy and he said he didn't know nothing about them diesels!  I told him he needed to go to school and LEARN something. 

[UNCLEBUCK]

ck I would seriously try a brand new fuel filter first , I always carry a spare and I buy them at napa for 20 bucks. Sounds like a load of bad fuel maybe but atleast with a new filter you can eliminate that 100% and work your way back. I going to dig around tonight because I got a 96 of the same . The losing power and slowing down sounds like a basic fuel filter so throw it out and cross your fingers. Driving semi trucks when filters went sour it felt like the cab was coming apart and the tranny was falling off . I use to fill the filter up with injector cleaner once in awhile to blow the bugs out .

[UNCLEBUCK]

My glow plugs went bad 2 years ago and 6 months out of the year I spray ether in the intake and start my truck just like a tractor for that first start of the day. 7.3 diesel with 255,000 .

[gary]

Hope you got your truck fixed.

[etat]

Not yet.  I did go and buy a new fuel filter and I'm a gonna study up on it some more tonight and tackle it again tomorrow.  Cause I sure would hate to have to call and get someone to work on it for real Monday who knows what they're doing.  OUCH! ???

[Tom]

I've had that  happen with my Cat 3116, only to find that there was water in the tank and the filters had filled up with water.  It happens when you run low on fuel.    I'd start by removing the fuel filters.  There may be two, a primary next to the tank and a secondary on the engijne.   Either drain them and look for water, and/or put new filters on. 

I know that most mechanics don't like you to pre-fill a filter, but it will save a lot of starter grinding. :D

I'd also look under the fuel tank for a drain plug and drain a quart or two of fuel from the tank and look for water there too.

Air leaks are death on diesel.  Make sure that your lines are purged of air.  I don't know what the procedure on your engine for purging would be but you need to learn.

Sounds like Water to me.      I hope.

[asy]

Well, what good is the boy, Charles!

tell him he's gotta specialise in what YOU own!!!

asy :D

[etat]

Agreed!   He just volunteered to go and put that fuel filter on so 'just maybe' there's hope for him.

Now, if it was a old John Deere tractor I'd know 'exactly' how to get the air outta them lines.  On this un, I have NO idea and ain't been able to find out.  Uh, anybody?  

[BW_Williams]

Charles, powerstrokes are self priming, but I still fill the bowl when I change the filter.  Does the Tach move when you crank it?  If not it's the Cam Position sensor.  There was a batch of bad ones I heard about a while back.  I'm betting you got bad fuel with a bunch of water in it.  If you go to fill up and the tanker is there, find another station, they really stir up the muck.  Your truck has an electric fuel pump, 97 and older are mechanical, no injector pump, direct injection.  Wish you were closer, I think my code reader would work on the newer trucks, good luck BWW

[Brucer]

Yep, got some water in the fuel filter on my GMC diesel and that stopped it cold. The filter on that particular truck was designed to be nearly impossible to work on, so it never got changed.

I eventually had the dealer mount a Raycor filter (designed for a semi  ;D ) on the firewall and I've never had a problem. It's easy to change and you can see the water accumulating and drain it out long before it becomes a problem.

[D._Frederick]

C.,

Do you have a hand pump that you can hook to your fuel line and pump to purge the air out of the line? If you changed filters and did not fill the new ones up with fuel before installing, you have air in the lines.

[FiremanEd]

C.,

Do you have a hand pump that you can hook to your fuel line and pump to purge the air out of the line? If you changed filters and did not fill the new ones up with fuel before installing, you have air in the lines.

All he should have to do is turn the key one click to the right and let the fuel pump in the tank pressurize the system. then crack a bleeder on top of the filter housing or any line past the filter. The tank pump should push all the air out. Then the engine should self prime w/ no problem. Theoriticly you only have to crank on it till it starts but that's hard on the starter. It will work though.

this applies to dodge and fords for the past 7 or 8 years. (don't know anything about gm diesels. I'm always concerned about a truck that wear's a bow tie,,,    ;D )

[etat]

Still no joy.  The fuel pump is not pumping diesel to the filter, of this I am sure now.  Yesterday when this first started before everything completely shut down I moved the lever to drain the filter and it was obviously pumping at that time.  The diesel 'appeared' to be fairly clear.  Then I closed the lever and when the truck still didn't start idling right I cut it off.  Since then it has not cranked back. As I said I replaced the CPS and then last night we replaced the fuel filter and filled the housing up with diesel.  Since then I've taken it back off a couple of times and no diesel to amount to nothing in it.  I also loosened the line, I 'think' the one going to it and turned the ignition on, no diesel.

I have no idea if it is the fuel pump itself, or if something inside the computer told it to shut off. 

[Kirk_Allen]

Last week it was the Fuel pump that let go on my Suburban.  Just got back from the post office and when I went to start it, nothing.  It would fire if I poured fuel in the manifold but die as soon as it burned up.

When you turn the key on you should hear the pump running. My pump was in the tank, 40 gallons of fuel so off to the dealer it went.  $500 later it runs fine...............................................UNTIL Saturday.  On my way back from Indy and lost Overdrive.  Pulled over to check the fluid and it was fine.  Go to take off and no first gear.

Nursed it home and wouldnt you know it, today it acts like NOTHING is wrong.

Off to AAmco in the morning :(

[Ga_Boy]

Brucer,

What kinda GMC do you have?

I got a 04 Duramax.  So far I haven't had any problems.  But I guess it is just a matter of time.


Mark

[Rod]

I know alot of guys here know alot about motor.I also sometimes go here.Some of these guys do motor work for a living and they have helped me a bunch. http://groups.msn.com/AutoRepairOnLine/fordproblem.msnw

[Tom_Averwater]

Did you check all of the fuses ?  Tom

[etat]

I 'think' I've narrowed it down to the fuel pump.  I checked the fuses and they were good.  Earlier I found out about a fuel pump relay by the kick panel on the passenger side door.  I just got back from checking that. It didn't seem to be tripped.  When I first got there when I turned the key on the fuel pump clicked on and filled up the filter.  The truck still wouldn't crank.  I drained the filter again and turned the key on again, and this time the fuel pump did not kick on and refil the filter.  So I don't know for sure that's what it is but I 'think' that's what it is.  I understand they're in the four hundred dollar range at the ford place.  I feel after worrying about this dang thing all weekend I'm going to let them fix it.  Ouch :'(

[UNCLEBUCK]

There is a fuse box under my hood for big stuff and I can pull a certain one when the truck is running and it instantly kills the motor, well let us know how it turns out , thats a bummer .

[Brucer]

Brucer,

What kinda GMC do you have?

I got a 04 Duramax. So far I haven't had any problems. But I guess it is just a matter of time.

Mark

Mine's old enough to be yours's parent, Mark  .

1980 GMC half-ton. That was GM's first attempt to put a diesel in a truck -- they took an Olds gas engine block and attempted to turn it into a diesel (not very successfully  :( ) I had to get mine rebuilt after 80,000 km / 50,000 miles. That was pretty typical for those engines. The rebuilds are supposed to be much better. Sure hope so.

The fuel filter sits on top of the block, crammed in between the air cleaner and the firewall. The cover faces the firewall and is so difficult to get at that most people don't bother -- until something bad happens. Hopefullly they've learned by now -- they've had long enough to get it right.

[BW_Williams]

Charles, I was going to point you to the diesel stop forum, but see your already there, good luck, keep us posted.  BWW

[etat]

I done been caught! :D

I can't even remember the last time I posted anywheres else.  I tried to find something similar to my problem on their archives or just about anywhere I could but wasn't having any luck so earlier this evening I decided to ask.  I pretty much got the same answer I was expecting, probably a fuel pump. The main thing I was trying to find out was if something inside the computer would shut down the fuel pump. I'd already found the fuses but I couldn't find the relay, unfortunately messing with it didn't help.  I even tried kicking the tires, that didn't help either.   ???

[BW_Williams]

Sorry pard, can't help you finding the relay, mines mechanical (and yes, I've replaced it, nothing like standing on your head for a couple hours in the "valley of death") Well, even if you have to replace the pump and relay, it's not as expensive as a Cummins injector pump. (Duckin' to avoid the Dodge fans responses :D)  Do you know any one with a code reader?  Most small shops nowadays have one. 

[etat]

541.00 dollars and change and my problem is solved.  Twas the fuel pump, expensive little devil.  I was sitting at the ford dealership before they even opened waiting to talk to a mechanic.  He told me 'if' I could get the truck up there they 'might' could get it fixed by Wednesday. ???  My nerves couldn't a stood waiting that long.

I checked with another mechanic, said he couldn't get to it today.  The new guy I hired suggested I check with DC Tire.  He said they had a good diesel mechanic.

Now, I've bought quite a few tires at DC.  I knew they did a lot of oil and grease changes and things but I didn't know they had a actual mechanic until that guy told me.  Once I had this information I KNEW I had a ace up my sleeve.  I KNEW!!!!!!!! ;D

Last week, Wednesday to be exact I had called Cody, the owner, at DC Tires and told him I wanted two new rear tractor tires for the old John Deere.  After I'd spent all that money on that motor I thought it ought to be setting on new tires.  Also I wanted a size wider and bigger than it had on it.  He told me he could have them Thursday and I went by and paid for em, in advance even though he didn't require it.  Thursday came, the tires didn't come in.  No Problem I told him, I didn't need em before the weekend anyways.  Friday evening came, the tires STILL didn't come it.  Again, I told him No PROBLEM.  BUT..........This morning I pulled in there like a wild man.  I caught Cody outside and pulled up right beside him and jumped out of the truck.  "Cody", says I.  "You know them tractor tires I ordered and ain't here Yet"     I said "Well, that AIN"T what I'm here to talk about.  I'm here to talk about a EMERGENCY!" 

He asked what was the emergency and I told him, "MY TRUCK HAS QUIT"   I told him where it was setting and how it had quit, and what it had done.  "Not to Worry" says he.  He said he'd get right on it!   

I told him I was on my way to Holly Springs to do some roofing and left him my number.  I left him the keys and told him where the truck was at.  He sent his wrecker after it.  It wasn't much longer before he called me to tell me how much the Dang thing was a gonna cost and I told him I'd done figure out how much them highway robbers was a gonna charge for a new fuel pump and to please just go ahead and buy one and put it on.  He called right after dinner and told me my truck was now RUNNING!

My dad went by and picked it up for me and paid him and like not to have traded back trucks with me this evening.

My tractor tires still ain't in.  He swears he'll have em sometime in the morning.  I recken that's ok, I can wait.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Glad you got yer truck running, Charles. 

  Kinda takes ya back to my "Justify this" post, EH ??? >:(

[etat]

AGREED!!!!!!!!!  HIGHWAY ROBBERY!!!!! 


But I gotta add I'm just glad it wasn't 'thousands' what it cost to fix my truck.

[Tom]

Must be something in the air.  I was on my way home from sawing in St. George, Georgia and decided to stop in and visit a customer/friend/retired chicken Farmer that lived on the way.  I decelerated from 55mph, put on the brakes to slow down and started turning in his driveway.  The engine quit and there I was with not brakes or power steering.   I let the clutch out  and the engine caught but ran rough.  I pulled up to his shop, got my filter wrench out from behind the seat and checked both filters for water.  It just had to be water.  I just new it had to be water.   The filters were full of the cleanest fuel I could ever hope for. 

The Truck idles bad.  It runs at low RPM bad.  At 1800 to 2000 it starts smoothing out some.

As I pulled into my driveway 25 miles later, I noticed that it wasn't holding oil pressure like it used to.  It was already 9:30 and I don't feel like being up all night with it.  First thing in the morning  I'll have to check the oil.  Don't know why it would be low.  That's one of my weekly checks and it was fine Friday.   It's a Cat 3116 and I had injector problems when it was new and a bad fuel heater at about 50000 but nothing since.  It has 135000 and has been running like a top.   I think I'll pro baby be heading for a shop too as soon as I can get done with this sawing job.   Dad-gummit!  I was just getting back into a schedule too.  Have 5 jobs lined up and them chomping at the bit. :-\

[etat]

Wow, I wished i knew what to say but I've done went and proved  I don't know nothing about diesel trucks.  I shurely hope it ain't nothing bad wrong with yours. Good Luck.

[Tom]

Me too!   I'm definitely no diesel mechanic.   I kinda know how they work but don't turn me loose under the hood with a wrench. :D

[isawlogs]

I think I'm going to hold off on starting my cumins for a day or two ....

[Tom]

well........  there might be something going around.......  Truck flu!

Then again, you might be able to get a lot done while I have this gremlin's attention.  :D

[isawlogs]

  Tom ...  I got a backup plan ....   ;D  I'm going to use the uder truck   ;)

[Jason_WI]

Tom,

Do you still have power to pull stuff??? Does it smoke real bad when pulling a load??? Sounds like your turbo went belly up.  Bad turbo bearing can cause low oil pressure. Turbo not spinning will cause loss of power.

Jason

[Tom]

It doesn't smoke.  I have loss of power at the bottome end. 'Top end is ok.  Turbo might be a probleml  I'll keep that in mind.  Thanks. ($)

[CHARLIE]

Me too!   I'm definitely no diesel mechanic.   I kinda know how they work but don't turn me loose under the hood with a wrench. :D

Tom ain't never been hesitant to tear into something that ain't working even if he doesn't know anything about it.  I reckon he figures that if it ain't working, he can't hurt it much.  Tom used to give haircuts at military school for 1/2 what a barbershop charged.  One time his clippers quit running.  So he took 'em apart, fixed it and put it back together.  Only one thing.....there was a part left over that he didn't know where it went.  What the heck though, the clippers worked, it is just that they were noisier. Yep, brother Tom will tear into DanG near anything if it's broke. ;D 

[UNCLEBUCK]

Glad your truck is fixed ck.    Once upon a time I took a truck to california that I picked up from the peterbilt dealer that had just installed a new radiatior from a deer ding , it was daylight hours as I drove away and about 4 hours until sundown, noticed during gear shifts that instead of just a quick puff of black smoke it was more like a 5 second long black curl , gauges looked good , a few hours after the sun went down truckers going the other direction would comment "hey cool truck" and I would say thanks because it had a 8 foot sleeper and other junk . after about 4 hours of "hey cool truck" I asked one why is it so cool, he said youre blowing flames out the stacks 2 feet long , I pulled into a well lit truckstop and tipped the hood and everything looked perfect , I waited until the next morning and went across the street to a diesel shop and they looked and said everything looks fine and by accident climbing down the mechanic pulled off a hose clamp for the air intake , peterbilt service shop had not tightened any of the hose clamps for that brings air in to the turbo . Thats all it was and away I went . Just thought a good truckstop story might help. Good Luck Tom

[Ga_Boy]

Brucer,

My dad bought one of those "experiment" diesels back in 1978.  He ran it for four years, all he ever did was the routine maintanince.  I want to rememebr the only problem was the injectors were replaced once. 

I think Chevy/GMC learned a lesson with this engine, for a diesel, build it fromt he ground up as a diesel.  A lot of other folks arond bought those same trucks, but always ran them hard and they had problems.

This is one of the habits I learned from my father, buy it new and take care of it and it will last.




Mark

[Brucer]

Hey, Mark,

Those early diesels were notorious for fuel pump failures -- mounted in the worst possible place according to my brother, the heavy duty mechanic. Also, people tended to drive them like a gas engine (start and drive, no warm up) and that led to premature compression problems.

I agree with your dad's point of view completely. Unfortunately, I bought this truck when it was three years old. Everything was in great shape, but the invisible damage had been done. Over the years it's got a rebuilt engine, a rebuilt transmission, and a whole new body. It's 25 years old now and just keeps going.

The nice thing about that old mechanical fuel injection is -- no computers!! I quit trying to help diagnose Charles' problems as soon as I realized we were dealing with a computer  :(

[Ga_Boy]

Brucer,

I don't even try to fix vehicles anymore.  When they start having problems it is off the the computer repair tech; once known as a mechanic.  When I learned that you needed a tool to plug into the vehicle so it will tell you what is wrong with it I gave up. 

When I was in high school I worked in a auto parts store selling points, plugs, condenserd, rotor caps and such.  After high school I went to work in a truck shop repairing meduim/heavy duty trucks.  The technology is such now that I would be hard pressed to fix a truck, there is no more trouble shooting.  Now, it is parts/module replacing until the right one is replaced.

Sometimes I miss the 70's.






Mark

[Tom]

Well!   Am I a lucky Boy?

It pays to take a look, sometimes, before you send it to the shop.  I thought about it and thought about it before I got the wrenches.  Still not knowing what I was doing, what could I hurt to look?

I took the valve cover off of the 3116 Cat and figured I would probably just be putting it back on again.  The diagnostics I had received over the phone ran the gamut from stuck injector, tip blown off of injector, hole in piston, swallowed valve, destroyed turbo........ etc.

I felt for blow-by at the dipstick and found none.   That pretty much eliminated a holed piston to me. 

It could be a stuck injector but I ruled out the injector tip blown off because lit wasn't smoking.

When I pulled the cover, low in behold, it was mechanical.  There before my eyes were bolts standing askew and a rocker arm frame not attached to the head.   Two of the bolts to the rocker frame for #3 cylinder had backed all the way out and the other two had broken.   One of the broken tips was easily removed with  the friction from a small screwdriver.  The other tip was removed with a left handed drill bit.  It wasn't hard to get out, it was just too smooth to get hold of with anything.

I went to the Cat Store and bought 4 new bolts.  Why mess around a hardware store and risk getting a bolt that wouldn't old.  The bolts were just plain old #8's.   

The push-rods are all different sizes so I didn't have to worry about mixing them up.  I just put them back, put the frame back into place and torqued it down to "TGE". (that's good enough)  The book says 9 lbs but I don't have a torque wrench.

Very gingerly, I reached into the cab and turned the key.  The engine roared to life and ran as smooth as it ever did.  It accelerates smoothly and catches at idle without a hitch.  I really pulled the fat from the fire on this one.

Total costs, 3 gallons of gas to go to the Cat shop, 60 cents each for 4 bolts and $15 at Golden Corral to buy my wife and me lunch.  She said that I owed her that for carrying me all the way across town. :D

Tomorrow I'll go to Georgia and retrieve my mill.  Maybe I can get set up on another job this weekend.

  smiley_biggrin01

[tnlogger]

 Tom thats some good news  a lot better then going to the dealer and paying no telling how much. 

[etat]

Tom, ya old son of a gun diesel mechanic you!   Glad to hear it weren't nothing bad wrong, I'd been wondering about it.

I did get my tractor tires Tuesday but I haven't even thought about having time to mount em and put em on.  I have got the rims off and the old ones off the rims though. I've got a ton of stuff here around the house that needs doing and don't know when I'm gonna find the time to do pert near any of it.   ???

[Captain]

Well, I got it too, but not with a diesel....

I'm rebuilding a 1987 GMC 2500 4WD for the wife, it will be her daily driver, rolling billboard, trailer towing vehicle, snowplow...

I bought it with a blown engine.  Through some swapping, I got a 1999 350 Vortec that was replaced as it lost compression in a couple of holes at 110,000.  Well that loss of compression was cracked heads behind the valve seats...so new heads and a rebuild by a friend in the business (I don't have time  :-\) and I installed the engine about 4 months ago, so the truck could be moved around the property.  From day one, the truck has not really run right.  It has good compression, but low vaccum and will not run nearly at all with the timing set correctly, I have to retard it about 6 degrees.

Well, I got it registered a few days ago, and yesterday decided to pull the valve covers and check the valve adjustments before major mechanical surgery.  Lucky I did...I found the front upper head bolt on the right side leaking coolant into the block.  Caught that one in time.  the bummer is, it is tight too.  Will have to investigate that one later.  The second bummer is that the valves were set correctly.  Now I have to pull the front cover to check the mechanical timing.

I don't have time for this....

Captain