4 in 1 bucket

Cruiser_79 · November 19, 2020, 03:14:56 PM

In the Netherlands you can hardly find a 4 in 1 bucket, maybe because backhoe loaders are rare as well. But I am quite interested to have a multi purpose bucket for our 8 tonne wheel loader (liebherr 514). We use it mainly for loading a hopper/feeder with solid sewage slurry and sand, and loading our hooklift trucks. Problem is that we can't get high enough for the hopper, if we could get 10" higher it would be okay. For our small scale plant the loader is big enough in production terms. First thought of buying a high tip bucket, but they are quite heavy (and expensive). And for sorting out some big stones, brushes, logs etc a 4-1 bucket will be nice as well I guess. But are they solid enough to use mainly in sand etc, when using the bottom dump all the time?

Walnut Beast · November 19, 2020, 03:23:06 PM

I'm not sure on bigger Equipment. But years ago I had a 4 in 1 CAT bucket for a skid steer and I didn't like it. It was heavy duty but just didn't work as slick as I thought

Walnut Beast · November 19, 2020, 03:31:00 PM

I think what I didn't like is the creep of it coming open you always got to be on top of. The capacity wasn't very big since it was heavy duty. And the clamping for various stuff. Just no comparison to independent grapple bucket for clamping of stuff

PoginyHill · November 19, 2020, 03:37:09 PM

I've watched many YouTube videos of 4-in-1 buckets on skid steers, but cannot understand the big advantage over a regular bucket. Small improvement in productivity maybe?
On the wheel loader, I've never seen a 4-in-1 for that. I can't see a high-lift bucket any heavier or more expensive than a 4-in-1, if one exists for that machine.

barbender · November 19, 2020, 03:40:49 PM

I've never used one, one advantage I could see on a skid steer is having rock teeth on the bucket for hard digging, and being able to back drag stuff smooth with the dozer blade part. I would think the dozer blade would cut better too, being right next to the machine versus way out like a bucket cutting edge. This is all pure speculation on my part, they do look clunky and bulky.

hedgerow · November 19, 2020, 05:04:51 PM

I have only been around two 4 in 1 buckets and one was on a old Cat track loader and it was nice to be able to use the cat like a normal dozer with the bucket part lifted up. I tried one on a skid loader years ago that a friend had that was selling it and I just didn't care for it on the skid loader. Never seen one on a wheel loader around here.

brianJ · November 19, 2020, 05:50:37 PM

Cruiser It should be easy to build a 30 CM ramp to reach easily with your Liebherr 514 loader. As for sorting out rocks, roots & brush just run it thru what we call a screen similar to an aggregate plant for concrete.

Maybe I don't understand something

Iwawoodwork · November 19, 2020, 06:23:53 PM

I currently have an old Hough 30 wheel loader ex military with a 4-1 and have used a couple others, they have their place just like a thumb on a backhoe or excavator. If you are pickings other than san and gravel they can be handy, like picking up logs. cants, larger boulders/rocks, root wads/stumps etc . The ones I have use could have used a deeper bucket, more front lip. I don't think that the 4-1 gave the machine any more dump height as you still have to get the back of the bucket beyond the edge of the truck bedrail before opening the clam.

Cruiser_79 · November 20, 2020, 01:45:44 AM

Quote from: brianJ on November 19, 2020, 05:50:37 PM
Cruiser It should be easy to build a 30 CM ramp to reach easily with your Liebherr 514 loader. As for sorting out rocks, roots & brush just run it thru what we call a screen similar to an aggregate plant for concrete.

Maybe I don't understand something

Yes, that should be a good solution as well. But because the material we have is quite sticky, it will be a problem if the loader is standing 'uphill' to dump the entire bucket. Than we should have a ramp for the entire length of loader. We have some truck drivers around here that won't like it :D Besides that, sometimes we can't get high enough to load trailers with the loader.

Didn't think about the opening time of the bucket slowing down the process, good point @Walnut Beast

Quote from: Iwawoodwork on November 19, 2020, 06:23:53 PM
I don't think that the 4-1 gave the machine any more dump height as you still have to get the back of the bucket beyond the edge of the truck bedrail before opening the clam.

For trucks it won't be, but the feeder we have has a steel grid on top to prevent big boulders/logs etc. in the conveyors etc. So I thought it could be easy to have your bucket up completely, drive above the grid and open it. Than we aren't slamming the grid with the lip of the bucket. The pin height of the loader will be the dumping height, not the lip of the bucket. And since people throw cotton like towels to wipe their *sses there are lots of towels hanging on the grid. I can imagine that we can backdrag them and clamp of the grid without falling in the feeder. But probably that needs some practicing

This is my more favourite task with the 514 by the way ;D

Ed_K · November 20, 2020, 08:00:52 AM

I used one on an ac 745 loader in the service and found it clumsy and hard to get a good load in the bucket using the clamp way. It may be good for cleaning the rack on your trucks after a lot of practice but you may have some welding to do depending on operators. They are great for picking rock tho.

mike_belben · November 20, 2020, 08:24:00 AM

Couple things about a 4 in 1. First ya gotta known the 4 tasks theyre advertised for because thats what theyre really good at. Outside those 4 maybe not so much.

1. General purpose clam grab.

Like ed says they can be clumsy. A modern skeleton bucket or grapple on a wheel loader or skid steer is far superior due to visibility in high dexterity detail work. You cant see through a clam or around the engine on an old crawler at all. You can hardly see the corners of the bucket if you lean out the side on my 450 Case CLBH. Easy to make a mess on the wrong job without a good spotter.

2. General purpose non-angle dozer blade.

3. Scraping up soil like a micro pan. They have to be set at a certain angle, opened a certain amount, pushed forward on a heavy carrier and mayve even hydraulic floated in some instances. On the big crawler loaders the drott family designed the buckets around, this works great. On a skid steer not really. And the bucket holds so little in 60" skidsteer size. Done right, theyll shave a consistent thickness and no more. Think potato peeler.

4. Depositing a metered thickness of fill or gravels. Take a scoop of rock from the pile, drive over to where you left off on this road or pad, curl back, start driving in the same direction, gear and RPM as your other passes, crack the clam open to the mark on the indicator pole and now you are tailgate spreading the same amount of rock each time, giving you a really consistent material thickness for compacting.

They cant be light or large volume because the front jaw has no back wall to keep it from bending into a smile or chinstrap so they jaw is very thick plate and shallow along the floor depth. A normal bucket only needs the cutting edge stiffened because the entire back edge is welded or rolled into the back wall. It can be thin and strong by virtue of its structure and not fail. A drott bucket must have reinforcement on the front and back cutting edges of the jaw, AND must be small in depth to limit the volume you can pick up. If they make it a bigger cubic capacity and say its for light materials, dipspit operators will fill it with demo, bend the snot out of it and cry "geith/esco/whoever makes junk!" So the mfr has no choice but to protect their reputation. Its not a design flaw, its a limitation that comes as an expense of its attributes.

Now its stupid to have a 4 in 1 with no teeth on the pushing face imo. Youve got a smooth edge on the open heel so why forego having teeth? Teeth are the cats meow in efficient roughing.

Another benefit of the clam is you can load trucks that you can barely clear more evenly from a single side Dump some scoops by curl and some by clam.. youll fill out the whole box without mounding.

Next, they smooth loose lumpy rutted material very well if you go full open jaw, curl all the way forward, float the boom and push forward. Nice finishers.

Also, they clean up very well. Say you had to excavate into a hillside for a small porch or foundation out of some leafy woods and take away all the dirt from the jobsite. A 4 in 1 will let you backdrag the leaf litter with the clam open and curled forward. When yove got a mouthful just stop and simultaneously close the jaw and curl back. Youll have every bit of it in the bucket without chasing it or hand raking. Now go cast this mulchy debris off in the woods to compost. Youve exposed the undisturbed topsoil and humus under the leaf layer.

Next use your teeth going forward to strip off the topsoil and pile it or load it out for re-use or sale. Then you can excavate the subsoil for a secondary sort of fill dirt or road base or whatever. The clam will help you chew off and pry out the little stumps and roots by flexing them until they snap.

A 4in1 on a bobcat is ideal for someone doing residential hardscape type stuff where its the primary tool in a variety of unknow tasks that pop up once the job commences. They can do a lot if you know how to use them. I built one and got quite the education from that.

You can probably have an oversized 4 in 1 built specialty by the manufacturer if you let them know its just gonna be hoisting ultra light fluff on a commercial site.

brianJ · November 22, 2020, 06:38:22 PM

Quote from: Cruiser_79 on November 20, 2020, 01:45:44 AMBut because the material we have is quite sticky, it will be a problem if the loader is standing 'uphill' to dump the entire bucket. Than we should have a ramp for the entire length of loader. We have some truck drivers around here that won't like it Besides that, sometimes we can't get high enough to load trailers with the loader.

Dont build a ramp. Make a cut out for the trucks to park in. Ramps or a cut out have a history of not breaking or wearing out like a bucket & hydraulics do.