Curious if any of you have any experience with a drum sander. I was considering it for doing a final sanding after planing to eliminate tear out and save time. I would also like to use it for sanding panels flat after gluing. Would the open sided ones work good on panels?
What do the sanding rolls cost? Is it easy to change grits?
What brands are good? I saw a delta on craigslist a while back for $400. Does this sound resonable?
thanks
Grizzly has a "baby" 12" drum sander for $525 new. $850 for an open end 18", which can actually sand 36". The replacement rolls are around $3.50 each.
The make drum sanders up to 51" wide, which the bigger ones are actually belt sanders but are essentially the same as drum sanders.
I have heard of a lot of woodworkers that use drum sanders in place of planers, especially on glue ups and figured wood. All of the info is in Grizzly's catalog. I'm sure other companies have similar products.
I have never used a drum sander, but I have heard good things.
I have the Performax 22-44. It is a wonderful machine - when used in a reasonable way. This is a finishing machine and leaves a sanded finish that can then be polished with a ROS. I have sent a 2" x 32" x 8' table top through it all the way down to veneer less than .010". It is my favorite tool in the shop. Surfaces come out so flat that a stack of sanded boards suction to one another when lifted. It's amazing how unfinished a board out of a planer really is. Every board that goes through my planer makes a pass through the drum sander.
Its limits are that it removes just a sandings dust worth of material at a time. You need to be careful with glue ups that all surface glue is removed. Otherwise, the glue will scorch the sanding belt and it will be ruined. Changing belts is a snap on this tool, but a little practice will be needed. The belts are not what I would call cheap, but the quality surface the drum sander leaves far outways the expense. If you are careful with the depth of cut (an 1/8th of a turn of the crank) and surface glue, a belt will last a really long time.
I also saw that they sold a sheet of the rubber sandpaper cleaner that you send through it like a board to clean it.
rutkom,
I've used the Delta machine for 5 - 6 years and am very happy with it. You can load it with 30 grit and score the snot out of a board or down to 220 and burn the snot out of the wrap. I've found that 120 or 100 grit is about as fine as you want to go. Closed grain woods like maple and beech tend to burn easily if you take too big of a bite. They seem to be a little underpowered as you can stall out the drum if you don't pay attention. If the machine on Craigslist is less that three years old, I'd say the $400 was a decent deal.... I still finish my panels and boards up on a stroke sander but the drum sure makes shorter work of it.
I would look for an older Beach if you have the room for one (they are fairly large) but well powered and BIG drums, which helps w/ paper longevity AND burning issues discussed earlier. I have several that I would let go fairly cheap, IF you are near Pa. as they are $$$ to ship. a couple of dual 37's, and a single 50" (this one is more expensive as I have use for it)
Ironwood
After using mine and talking to my friend with a dual drum Griz I found you can't take off much material with out burning the paper and worse if you hit a knot. Maybe a big old one that turns slower might be better. I'd look for a used wide belt sander or get a good random orbit sander. Steve
I've got a 38" Woodmaster, it's 4 years old now and has been an excellent machine.
On any drum sander a good dust collection system is a must! Woodmasters system picks the dust up from the bottom of the drum as soon as it comes off the wood. It really reduces the sandpaper loading up.
Variable speed is required also, different woods & grits require different feed rates to control finish quality and sandpaper life.
If you don't let the paper get real loaded up, it can be powerwashed at least once to get more life.
When sanding glue ups, I always skew the board slightly when it feeds through the sander, the prevents the glue joint from running in one spot on the drum and loading up the paper.
You will still need to finish sand after using a drum sander, I start with the same grit that the sander was loaded with.
Ed
Does Performax still make drum sanders? The only thing I see on their website are little cheap homeower tools. The closest thing I can find is the JETs which look exactly the same.
Is there anything special about the sanding rolls? It looks like it is just a roll of hook and loop paper that you wrap around the drum. Are they all like this? I guess I was expecting it to use an actual sleeve like a spindle sander.
I've never seen one work. Approximately how long/ how many passes would you take to sand a 12x24 oak board to get a nice surface that can be finnished with a ROS?
Unfortunately I'm halfway across the country from you. Know any good sources of used machines near Kansas City? What are some good brands to look for?
The Jet group purchased Performax along with Powermatic a few years ago.
The paper rolls attach with a clip on either side of the drum - not hook and loop. A 12X24" piece of oak will go through in 10 seconds, maybe with two passes per side. this of course depends on the amount of tearout or other defect you need to remove. The feed rate on the 22-44 is variable, so it can be adjusted to the optimal speed for the hardness and width of material as well as the depth of cut.
Is there a Woodcraft store in KC? They may have one set up in there classroom thsat you can test drive.
The Performax is not what I would call an industrial sander. I would not want to run thousands of square feet through it. But for the volume of material I use in building personal projects, it is a nice value.
rutkom, Woodmaster is right in your backyard. ;D
http://www.woodmastertools.com/ (http://www.woodmastertools.com/)
Ed
If I found a good deal on a woodmaster, I'd be all over it. There is a lumber dealer around here that has a woodmaster planer. He planes alot of lumber and seems to do a good job.
This is just a hobby, so it would be just occasional use. It's one of those tools that would be nice to have if I can find one for the right price.
IMO all drum sanders are hobby machines...I had a Performax for a while and now have the dual drum 24" Grizzly G1066R. It comes with clips to hold the sandpaper...but it is almost a two man job to change paper. They sell a hook and loop conversion kit which is a big improvement. I paid something like $350 off CL and got the machine plus $350 worth of sandpaper. Knowing what I know now I would never pay for a new machine from either Performax or Grizzly.
I know nothing of other machines but can't see where they would be a big improvement.
Bottom line...they are useful and if you can pick up a used machine for small cost it may be worth while.
Buyer beware on "oldish" wide belts, they can be expensive, and finincky to get working. Personally I would never buy on I could not see run (for an extended period). The old Beach and Smith drums were the industrial standard for decades andd decades, probably 90 years or more. They are big and CAN get the job done. One mill near me has a 1880's osillating Egan (before Fay and Egan). It is going strong and gets the job done (watch yer fingers though) lots of exposed gears and such. Don't let the others disswade you, thay are simple powerful and inexpensive, you just need to get it mobilized and have space for it. You will find these tucked away in numerous corners. I could direct you to 6 or so tucked away in old museum wood shops (when the work was done in house) and also in a few monestary setting where the fathers did woodworking pre turn of the century. Sniff around they are out there and at a hobbists budget. Personally, when I need one I grab a forklift and get one of the three here that are palletized and bring them over to my outside loading dock to plug them in and use them. I kiinda work like the Amish, when it rains I work inside and when sunny I use my extended shop space outside ;D.
Ironwood
On the Performax...
I worked in a shop that had the smaller one . A 16-32 I believe. This machine was infuriating. The breaker switch (?) on the motor would trip constantly. If the depth of cut was too deep, it would trip. If the feed rate were to fast it would trip. If it ran too long (20 min) it would trip.
The 22-44 that I purchased has never tripped in the three years that I have been using it. And I would use it for hours at a time.
Nice to see this thread!
I too have questions on a drum sander.
I see and add for a Craftex 13" table top (so to speak) with a 1hp, 110v motor, with a conveyor belt speed from 0 to 22 fpm up here in Ontario, Canada. It sells for $848 Is this a good deal and can it do the job on light weight tasks? abrasive rolls are $7.99 each.
Robert
I have a Grizzly 24" drum sander. Bought it used about 8 years ago. It works ok, and is a bridge from a hand held belt sander to a wide belt sander. It does need really strong dust collection, and the paper loves to clog on pine. One other thing about the Grizzly (at least the old ones, don't know about the newer ones) is that the drums seem to rotate in reverse of the direction they should.
It's a bit fussy to run, but does the job as long as you don't try to take too big of a pass.
For me, it's right on the border between a hobby machine and a real woodworker machine.
Obviously, they're cheaper than a wide belt. Also obviously, a one or two man shop would have a difficult time justifying the 10K or so for a small wide belt.
From my involvement with other professional wood working forums, it seems that whenever a shop is big enough to justify a wide belt, it does so much sanding so fast that it replaces one whole person in the shop.
I like what Ironwood has to say about the Beach sanders - I've heard this echoed for years now, they must be a good unit.
There's just something real nice about a big old cast iron machine that quietly does it's job without excess strain or protest. My Grizzly strains and protests (sometimes howls a bit).
I use the Performax 16/32 for my guitar building. I like the machine and it does a good job, but can only take a few thousands off at a time. It is dead true though and does a wonderful job for a cantelevered drum sander.
When I replace it, it will most likely be with the Grizzly G1066R 24" drum sander (http://www.grizzly.com/products/24-Drum-Sander/G1066R) because of it's wider width and ability to hog off more material at once.
Quote from: rutkom on September 25, 2008, 12:47:50 PM
Does Performax still make drum sanders? The only thing I see on their website are little cheap homeower tools. The closest thing I can find is the JETs which look exactly the same.
Is there anything special about the sanding rolls? It looks like it is just a roll of hook and loop paper that you wrap around the drum. Are they all like this? I guess I was expecting it to use an actual sleeve like a spindle sander.
I've never seen one work. Approximately how long/ how many passes would you take to sand a 12x24 oak board to get a nice surface that can be finnished with a ROS?
Unfortunately I'm halfway across the country from you. Know any good sources of used machines near Kansas City? What are some good brands to look for?
If you have some fairly deep tearout after planeing it would take a lot of passes to get it smooth on my RBI (simular to Woodmaster) drum sanded. When planeing I can turn the crank down 2 turns, with the drum sander on at the most 1/8 of a turn and then it likes to burn, 1/16 of a turn is safer. If you get one get the biggest diameter roll you can find. I just bought a spiral head planer with a Byrd head on it. It does away with almost all of the tearout in figured wood. I took a look at a old Beach drum sander, the drums are huge on it. Steve
Quote from: metalspinner on September 25, 2008, 09:55:04 PM
The 22-44 that I purchased has never tripped in the three years that I have been using it. And I would use it for hours at a time.
I have a 16-32 and most times I want to throw it across the yard >:( >:( >:(
I thought the cuircuit breaker thing was something wrong with my machine, until I contacted Performax.
Does the 22-44 have any problems with accuracy on large panels ??? ???
QuoteDoes the 22-44 have any problems with accuracy on large panels
No. The head can be adjusted to create a slight taper, but you can set it dead on. If the motor senses it is working too hard, it will slow the feed rate automatically during the cut. Then you can adjust the depth of cut or feed rate on the fly. But once you get the feel of the machine, you learn how fast and deep to make cuts in given sizes and densities of materials.
Who has Woodmaster 50" drum sander single or double. Or anything else 35" wide or bigger. Likes and dislikes. From previous readings some seem to think drums are a hobby unit and are junk. Then others seem to love them and use them in business everyday. Let's hear it!!
I know a good wide belt sander is irreplaceable, but it was not an option for us re: budget and space. We opted for the Laguna 25/50 drum sander and we've used the heck out it. It can't be used to take big bites and is slow, but when used correctly it saves a lot of hand sanding. Everything that comes off the jointer and planer that will be used in our shop goes through it.
I've been around and used a 50" Woodmaster double drum, wow, what a great sander. It is on a whole different level than our Laguna, definitely a commercial machine.
I picked up a Laguna 25/50 last year. Once I got through the learning phase it has performed nicely. As said above, multiple small passes work the best.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on August 08, 2022, 01:40:14 AM
Who has Woodmaster 50" drum sander single or double. Or anything else 35" wide or bigger. Likes and dislikes. From previous readings some seem to think drums are a hobby unit and are junk. Then others seem to love them and use them in business everyday. Let's hear it!!
I have a 52" three head Timesavers. Combined HP is around 100.
It might be a little quicker than a Woodmaster...
Wide belts are nice compared with drum sanders because it only takes a couple of minutes to change grits.
Previously I had a 25hp EMC 37" wide belt.
HP is king when it comes to a WBS. A platen model will provide a much nicer finish.
A few months back an equipment dealer in NC had a combination top and bottom sanding planer for sale for around 10K. It was an industrial rated piece of equipment and well suited for slabs.
I did talk to Mark at Woodmaster and one thing he said that has me thinking between the single vs double drum sander is there is a outfit back East that makes a wire brush for the dual drum machine. For the brushed grain look on the wood. What a lot of guys are doing and it's not designed for is flattening slabs running them through there 40-50 times and more 😂
Quote from: Burlkraft on September 29, 2008, 08:27:50 AM
Quote from: metalspinner on September 25, 2008, 09:55:04 PM
The 22-44 that I purchased has never tripped in the three years that I have been using it. And I would use it for hours at a time.
I have a 16-32 and most times I want to throw it across the yard >:( >:( >:(
I thought the cuircuit breaker thing was something wrong with my machine, until I contacted Performax.
Does the 22-44 have any problems with accuracy on large panels ??? ???
I have the 22-44 going on 16 years. I only do wood working as a hobby mostly, but have done lots of stuff that people have requested. I have tripped it maybe a half dozen times in all and that was my fault for not paying attention by trying to take off too much in one pass or having it set to low on first pass. I buy rolls of paper from Klingspor. All in all, I like this machine. I did have the 16-32 before but needed the wider one for panels. bg
Funny this topic was near the top today. I was just looking into drum sanders. I'm sort of focusing in on the Supermax 19-38. What is interesting is the intellidrive feature. As the loading goes up, it can slow the feed and visa versa.
Brad, that's why mine hasn't tripped.
I only have ever used 120 grit paper on mine. It's enough to remove the planer marks from the spiral head and prep the surface for sanding with the ROS.
Oh, and an 1/8 turn of the height adjustment wheel seems to be the sweet spot for 120 grit
I have the Supermax 25-50. The intellidrive works well. If you overload it, the intellidrive slows the infeed down. I use it mostly to sand wood cookies using 40 grit. Works very well for that. I have sold hundreds of sanded wood cookies that would be impossible to sand the end grain smooth with hand held sanders in any reasonable timeframe. Sanding the cookies really makes a difference in customer preference. I can raise the price for sanding the cookies and make a hourly rate for running the equipment and for my time doing it.
I have also found, like Chris, that a 1/8th turn on the adjustment wheel is the sweet spot for me too.
Quote from: metalspinner on August 16, 2022, 07:57:20 AM
Brad, that's why mine hasn't tripped.
I only have ever used 120 grit paper on mine. It's enough to remove the planer marks from the spiral head and prep the surface for sanding with the ROS.
Oh, and an 1/8 turn of the height adjustment wheel seems to be the sweet spot for 120 grit
X2, I run my 25-50 exactly the same.
One of the advantages of a widebelt is the belt oscillates. Jet has a 22-44 single drum sander that oscillates, I think they are the only one. I've used it in a craft school and it worked fine. I thought the oscillation made it a lot better machine.
I had a double drum 24" Grizzly. Hated it because it was slow, poor dust collection, sandpaper was hard to change, forget working through the grits, poorly built, and did I mention slow? Had it all of 6 months.
Last year I found a used but like new Grizzly 15-30 wide belt. Actually I found several good ones for less than new drum sanders but they were a few hundred miles away. It works great and I can swap belts in 30 seconds. Dust collection is good and it is accurate. The one limitation is it has 5 horsepower which is under powered. This restricts speed and how much can be removed in one pass. If I need production work or something wider a couple of local cabinet shops rent time on big widebelts at a reasonable rate. This is a great solution for me.
If I ever add room to the shop a large widebelt will be installed.
Took me a bit to figure out ROS = Random Orbit Sander. Knowing it works for cookies makes it even more useful for me. Just after writing that post, I found a brand new Supermax 19-38 on marketplace. It had the digital height gage, and extra sanding rolls. I got it for about $400 less than if I bought a new one at woodcraft or other retailer(not shipping fee or tax). They are $1999 right now, but are due to go up as soon as they work through their current inventory.
Thanks for reminding me Brad.
I've been thinking about adding a digital height gauge to my sander and planer.
Wixey makes one. Has anyone done this?
https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR550-Remote-Planer-Readout/dp/B0054RJ7AS/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=46GHN4VI6SJZ&keywords=wixey+height+gauge+planer&qid=1661255729&sprefix=wixey+height+gauge+planer%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.com/Wixey-WR550-Remote-Planer-Readout/dp/B0054RJ7AS/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=46GHN4VI6SJZ&keywords=wixey+height+gauge+planer&qid=1661255729&sprefix=wixey+height+gauge+planer%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-3)
Wixeys on both my 13" DC-33 planer and 25-50 sander. Game changer for sure on both machines.
I have a Wixey on my 25-50, worth every penny.
Glad to read the comments about Performax 16/32. I thought it was just my machine but several of you have the same problem. It does fine, IF you've got the time.
I've got a Performax 16/32 that I don't use any more . It works fine but I find I'm not using it enough to keep it around .
Was great for sanding picture frames when I was into those .
I'm ready to let it go real cheap
PM me
Quebecnewf
Note: If you want to sell your sander via the Forum, you must post an Ad in the For Sale Board and follow the rules. The PM system has been used in the past to skirt the rules and should not be used, although there is no way to know if you do , so you are on the Honor System.
Just a note....if I burn a belt and it still is sharp I have a pvc pipe about 5 x 24 that I wrap the damaged paper on , spring clip both ends and spray with purple power. ,Walmart, and let it sit for a bit and use a stiff brush to clean it up. Rinderpest off with hot water and it is good to go again. Dan