Just the Facts, the Crown virus.

[SwampDonkey]

And the beat goes on. ;)

[Ianab]

Latest figures for the Delta outbreak here in NZ



 

Of the 224 people that have needed hospital care, only 3 were vaccinated. (2 shots + 2 weeks). A lot of children have caught it, but fortunately not so many needed hospital care. MOST of the serious cases have been the non-vaccinated. The vaccination rate is for the total population, so includes the under 12s in the %.

[HemlockKing]

And the beat goes on. ;)

Still moving strong!!!  ;D Great jam

[kantuckid]

Given that the discussion of vaccines is a worldwide hot topic lately, the most recent Smithsonian magazine has an article, written by a doc, that I found interesting.  Covers the historical and current diphtheria vaccination senario. 
It is an article any parent of younger children should read IMO.
 The diptheria vaccines have changed as recently as lately and it continues to be a factor for children's health in several areas of the world. Even in Europe, held up as being the more advanced society at times, they are still yet shuffling diphtheria vaccines from place to place.  
I may (probably) have miss-used the proper terminology of vaccine vs anti-toxins and so on but when we have parents who hold back their own kids from vaccinations it's a worthy discussion to understand better. 
 
After reading even more professional comments each day, I'm still in a holding pattern for more info about the booster covid shot for myself. I'll share that I do find the media comments from Dr. Marty Makary, of Johns Hopkins both informative and useful. He is of the opinion that the covid vaccines should have been spaced further apart than was the case for shots #1 & #2. Like most docs he also know there is a lack of research in the entire arena of covid vaccinations.

On shoulder shots I have wondered if somebody will strike my left shoulders screws or cable someday?

 

[SwampDonkey]

I've seen several doctors state that using a different vaccine boosts immunity and giving second doses further apart than 2 weeks is more effective as well. Around here I'd say from observation and the media reporting that most of us had doses a lot further apart than 2 weeks. I know mine was over 2 months apart. But that was only by consequence, because of availability of vaccine. So can't give full credit there to be honest. Just happens that it is more effective when doing that, as it turns out.  Mixing vaccines has been good to. Why mixing of vaccines was a big hesitation in some countries is still a mystery. ;)

[doc henderson]

It has to be studied.  if you got two very differant vaccines would they together be twice as good, no better than one alone, or some multiple of the origional like 3 or 4 times better.  when we started, we were trying to get people immunity, so do you wait a few months for the second dose so it lasts for years, or get two in soon as possible to get over 90% relative immunity.  if you die before the second dose, not so good.  I agree we are learning as we go.  how else can you do it with a novel pandemic.  

[SwampDonkey]

Well stated Doc.

As it turns out, if we look at other vaccinations for disease. Often see a different vaccine for the same disease gives a better response in some patients that didn't respond well from another. So going on inference and not all guess work.

But yes, maximize the # of people getting a poke was priority. ;)

[Ianab]

NZ had switched to 6 weeks gap between shots because research suggested that gave better immunity, and at the time the virus wasn't circulating here.  But when the virus did get loose again, we started seeing community cases, and there was now plenty of vaccine available, they are back to the 3 week gap. You can see from the table I posted above, the 2 shots (whether 3 or 6+ weeks apart) give a LOT better protection than just one shot. I don't believe the difference is huge, but currently the push is to get everyone that 90%(?) immunity. Maybe waiting longer might give 95, as might getting a booster next year. 


Like the Doc says. we don't KNOW, we are learning as we go. Makes it tough to give people exact answers for legit questions like "How long is the vaccine immunity good for?". You can measure how the level of antibodies in the blood falls off over time, but that's not a direct relationship to immunity. That probably depends on the body's ability to make MORE antibodies at short notice if needed, and that's harder to assess.


Will there be booster shots next year? Maybe. NZ is currently testing a new vaccine aimed more specifically at the Delta variant, and not MRNA based. It's hoped that this will work as a more effective booster shot. But it's only in animal testing at this stage, so no where near ready to deploy. And again it's the question of whether a different booster vaccine will work better than a 3rd dose of Pfizer, which no one knows yet.  

[firefighter ontheside]

My friend who is a researcher for pharmaceutical companies was telling us about the process of doing trials.  The manufacturer comes up with a hypothesis and tests it.  Pfizer hypothesized that waiting 3 weeks between shots would be a good time frame.  They did all the studies and it was found to be 95% efficacious.  When it was approved by FDA, that was what they had to do, because that's what was studied.  To change the timing gap, there would have to be whole new studies is what he said.  Now, that's for the US.  I presume other countries can do what ever they choose to be the better course.

My wife was just reading from the study on Pfizer in children 5 to 12.  So far, the vaccine was found to be 91% effective which is very good considering that much of the study was involving delta variant.  My 11 year old may be able to get a shot next week if they approve it.  

[SwampDonkey]

"New Canadian data suggests the bold strategy to delay and mix second doses of COVID-19 vaccines led to strong protection from infection, hospitalization and death — even against the highly contagious delta variant — that could provide lessons for the world."

New data suggests Canada's 'gamble' on delaying, mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines paid off | CBC News

[Jeff]

Just a fact. I lost a friend this week.

Thomas 'Tom' Sluiter Obituary - Zeeland, Michigan - Yntema Funeral Home

[barbender]

Sorry for your loss, Jeff. He sounds like a colorful character just from the obituary.

[doc henderson]

sorry Jeff.

[Ianab]

Sorry to hear that. Sobering that he was about our age. 

[SwampDonkey]

Sorry about your buddy Jeff.

[Chuck White]

Sorry for your loss Jeff!

[Southside]

My sincere condolences Jeff.

[Old Greenhorn]

Very sorry Jeff. This plague does not separate the good from the not so good and sadly takes all it wants..

[newoodguy78]

Sorry for your loss Jeff 

[Ed_K]

 It sucks when everybody around you the same age die, and makes you wonder what's happening. Sorry Jeff.

[Texas Ranger]

Sorry for your lose, bud, this has been all too frequent recently.

[doctorb]

Hard to lose a friend.  

[firefighter ontheside]

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend, Jeff.

[Lostinmn]

For those interested in the protection of natural vs vaccine effectiveness there is a new study out which this article discusses.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/covid-19-vaccine-gives-5-times-protection-natural-immunity-data-show°°

[Hilltop366]

From the local radio station stats for Nova Scotia.

There have been 87 cases of COVID-19 between October 21 and October 27. Of those:
— 23 (26.4 per cent) were fully vaccinated
— 3 (3.4 per cent) were partially vaccinated
— 61 (70.1 per cent) were unvaccinated
There have been 5,649 cases from March 15 to October 27. Of those:
— 359 (6.4 per cent) were fully vaccinated
— 359 (6.4 per cent) were partially vaccinated
— 4,931 (87.3 per cent) were unvaccinated
There were 306 people hospitalized. Of those:
— 12 (3.9 per cent) were fully vaccinated
— 31 (10.1 per cent) were partially vaccinated
— 263 (85.9 per cent) were unvaccinated
Thirty-four people died. Of those:
— 3 (8.8 per cent) were fully vaccinated
— 3 (8.8 per cent) were partially vaccinated
— 28 (82.4 per cent) were unvaccinated