Hercules winch problem

[danabg]

Having problems with the winch on a 230.The machine is a 1987 230,I think it's a Hercules winch.The cable is very hard to pull out,it is harder to pull out on colder days,also the cable will wind itself in when driving the machine into the woods without a load on.Once again it is worse on cold days,if it is warm out it doesn't do it.I don't know much about these winches,it's like there is a light drag of some sort on the pto side I think.The machine doesn't get used much,sits around most of the time.Anyone got any ideas where I should start to look,thanks.

[bushmechanic]

 Are you sure it's a hercules winch? Sounds more like something a gearmatic would be doing. Does it have Hercules or Eaton wrote on it?

[danabg]

No it doesn't all I can find on it is a timberjack tag on it.

[bushmechanic]

 A gearmatic winch will act the way you are describing. They get rusty when not used very much and will preform like you say winching in on it's own and really hard to pull out. I have seen them that bad after being not used for some time that we would have to tie it to a tree and drive away, winch it in and repeat this process until it worked good. Search for Gearmatic 119 on the forum and look for pictures to see if that's what is on your machine.     

[danabg]

I'm pretty sure it's a Hercules from the pics I've found.The winch was under water 2 years ago its been getting progressively worse since then.Had to drain transfer case and do the brakes because of that incident.

[Neilo]

Does the winch brake hold a load?

The only way a herc winch can winch in when the control in in the centre is that the brake doesn't work, so the drag of the winch clutch is enough to rotate the drum.

Other than that, hard to pull out is generally dirt etc in the clutch plates or warped plates. There are also adjusters for the brake band at the rear and bottom of the band, they may be dragging.

[Nemologger]

I had the same thing happen on a Herc on a 225. Have you adjusted the set screws on bottom and back of the band? Have someone put a steady pull on the cable and slowly adjust the set screws in to the band, soon it will start to pull out easier. After the desired drag is reached tighten the sets.

[danabg]

The winch does hold a load,but I haven't tried setting anything on it yet.I will fool with it some today,wish I had a manual for it.Thanks for the input guys.

[David-L]

Like everyone has says ,if the winch holds than it is most likely brake band adjustment. You can see the screw under the band of the winch, you can set it light and also adjust the wear pad or whatever it is called on the left hand side above the worm gear housing so it dosen't booga up when you drop the hitch at the landing or wherever. Take the guard off so you can see things.

                                                                    David l

[danabg]

Well I figured out the problem with the cable being hard to pull out,the clutches were warped some and a couple of the steel plates were as well.There was a lot of dirt and rust in the teeth as well,not allowing them too slide freely.So cleaned things up,got new parts,installed them but now the winch is slipping under load.It should pick the front end up easily but the winch slips first.I checked pressure going to piston it is around 600 pounds so ok I think,the machine easily lifts front end off ground using down pressure of the blade,soI think pump is fine.Clutch plate is moving freely when winch is activated.I'm almost positive I've got things back together right,there's not much too it.Is there a seal in the piston that could be bad?I'm stumped,some of you on here seem too know a lot about these winches, any suggestions.Thanks

[Neilo]

Does the drum slip under normal winching, or only the front lifting test?

With 600psi, the lifting the front end test should work however there are a few things.

This test is only for the first layer of cable, not a part full drum. At recommended cable length on drum rated pull is down to about 11000lb. This won't lift the front.

Rated pull will increase as new friction linings are bedded in. This increase is from about 18000lb to 21000lb.

I suggest you use it a bit to bed in the linings and a few operations of the winch hydraulics will get most of the air out of the clutch cylinder and improve response.

[danabg]

The winch was slipping while trying to lift the front end of the machine.Is it common to have air in piston after it's been apart?Maybe it is just the new linings,I will run it some and see what happens.Thank you.

[Neilo]

Air in the cylinder can't be avoided as the line is at the bottom and there is no bleeder. However it will still apply the pressure as the hydraulics compress the air. Just not as responsive. A few operations will improve things after re-assembly.