Let me start by saying that I have always had the greatest respect for Timber Framed Homes but at the time of my homes construction I lacked the skills and money to build a Timber Framed Home. So last year when it came time to rebuild my cabinets in my home I did a little thinking and dreamed out a design that I call Timber Frame cabinets. This enables me to get a miniturized look of timber framing in my home. I just thought I would mention it here to get your opinion on how they came out, but more importantly to let others know of how I managed to incorpororate the timber frame look without actually having a timber frame home in case they wanted to do so as well. Pathetic perhaps, but I will let you guys be the judge of how my design came out.
Basically I scaled the timbers down to 2x2 posts and beams. I kept them on the outside of the cabinets so that the frame would show, reversed from how a true timber framed building works. I then attached the face frames to this frame, added the drawers and cabinet doors. You will note in the picture that I do not have any toe kicks. This is just a personal opinion, but I think they get dirty quick and are hard to clean. To allow myself to get right up to the countertop, (yes I am married and yes I still do the dishes :'() ) I cantilevered the top of the counter out 4 inches. I was planning on adding granite to the top of the countertop, but figured until I could afford to do so, I would use glued up pine panels as a good looking countertop now, and future substrate later. Everyone has agreed however that the counterop looks good just as it is.
There are a few trade-offs of course. The fronts are harder to keep clean because of all the corners and stuff, and the depth of the cupboards are also reduced because of the frame and cantilevered countertops. These defeciencies are made up in good looks however by having very strong kitchen cabinets. With the frame holding everything square and plumb, the face frames attached to the insides, and the shelving further sadwiching the face frames, the cabinets are bullet-proof!
In my case, I choose to use pine panels for the infill of the raised panel doors, Black Cherry for the face frames and Black Cherry again for the stiles and rails of the doors, al for contrast. For contrast again, I choose to use Spruce for the "timber framed" posts and beams. Personally I like to use different species of wood in a project, but you could easily keep them all the same species or substitute the species I used according to your own personal tatses. (Basically I used wood I had on hand). You could also build overhead cabinets as well. In my house, overhead cabinets would make the room conjested I thought and would be difficult to arrange tackfully so I left them out.
In any case, here is the link to a picture of my kitchen cabinets, let me know what you think of this unique design!
http://www.railroadmachinist.com/Cabinets.html
Deadwood
I like it.
Looks very good (suggest posting pics in the gallery ;) ).
With that kitchen, seems the chain saw should be kept just behind the door under the sink. :D ;D ;D
That way it will be 'at home' but out of the way. ;D
Thanks for the kind words my friend.
As far as the pictures go. I tried to do that, but I am having problems getting them posted. It gives a list of picture files that it will take, but my photo program (Paint Shop Pro 8) which has a ton of different conversion files, lacks the AVI and ones like that.
What am I doing wrong?
Have you seen this thread for posting pics?
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=12416.0
NoI did not see that. Sounds easy enough. Thanks.
I too had "teething problems" when I first tried to post pictures in the gallery.
I had success when I reduced the image size till the file was less than 20 KB, then it worked OK when uploading (wont work if a file is bigger than that)
I like your kitchen, I like it when folk dare to do something different or unusual. I had an idea to make a big sturdy table with small jowl posts for the legs. I'm working on a chair at the moment that is a hybrid of a welsh primitive stick and a greek klismos form. I'll post a picture when its done.
Cheers, Jonathan
Oh you should like me than Jonathan. I try new things all the time. Mostly it has to do with economics, I have resourses like rocks, timber and equipment, but not a whole lot of money. I've also tried making concrete contertops, sawdust cement and framed buildings unconventionally. Sometimes ideas do not come out like I envisioned, but then again sometimes they do. I think my cabinets came out pretty well and I was proud to share them with everyone. If I get some time I will try to get a few more pictures on their like the "dog Center" (a built in cabinet for feeding and watering tall and short dogs) and a built in dog proof trash can. (I have 3 dogs).
my perfect cabinets would be all wall hung, so i'd never have to bend over to get anything out! that, and a counter at 36", maybe even 38"
i like the look, well done.
Quote from: Deadwood on October 31, 2005, 07:12:19 PMI've also tried making concrete contertops, sawdust cement and framed buildings unconventionally.
I once had a notion to build a workbench with a concrete top (to get the weight and solidity but still with a wood top surface to protect tools and timber). I might just get round to it, most likely when I relocate. I havent enough space just here.
You ever done any of that cordwood stackwalling? I believe they use sawdust cement for that?
No I have not done any cordwood stacking, but that is a unique design idea. We ended up using sawdust cement on a floor in an old timber framed barn. We were afraid the weight of concrete would really be a problem on 4 floors so we approached the local university and thay gave us the ratios for sawdust to cement and it worked out pretty well considering the corrosive nature of chicken manure.
As for my concrete countertops, I used that on a vanity inside my bedroom. I colored the concrete in a rather novel way, using latex paint. The color came through fine, but was a bit dulled because of the gray base of the concrete. If anyone does this they might want to go with a few darker shades to get the color they want...say using hunter green to get a forest green. I went all out anyway. Even used rebar on 4 inch squares, wire-tied it and formed it all up. The only problem I have with it is dust. The dust shows up pretty well on the finished concrete surface.
Well I had some time this morning so I added a picture of my "Dog Center" just in case someone wanted to build one as well into their own kitchen cabinets. Let me just say that it works well as we have three dogs and all at different sizes and heights. (Black Lab, Shanauzzer, Basett Hound) We keep the dog treats and chew toys in the area behind the dog bowls which allows the dogs to eat at convienient heights. As for the counter top, it is located right beside the stove so my wife can place dishes and pots in a close location. All in all, the "Dog Center" works exceedingly well.
Here is the link to that added picture.
http://www.railroadmachinist.com/Cabinets.html
Great looking cabinets!
BTW, can you give more information on the sawdust/cement floors you mentioned?
QuoteWe ended up using sawdust cement on a floor in an old timber framed barn. We were afraid the weight of concrete would really be a problem on 4 floors so we approached the local university and thay gave us the ratios for sawdust to cement
Those are good looking cabinets Deadwood. I like that design, you should deffinately put those in your album so we will be sure that we can pull them up later.
Now, what is this about sawdust concrete? That's a new one for me. Tell us some more about it.
Well since two people asked, I will explain a bit more about the sawdust cement. Basically instead of using aggregate like sand and crushed rock, you use sawdust instead. Now I am not so sure bandsaw mill sawdust would work as good as the old circular mills because the sawdust particles are so small. You basically add a bit more cement to the mix and stir everything up well and then pour. In our case we wanted a concrete floor that would be placed over wooden framing. We were concerned about the weight of typical concrete on the wooden structure but still wanted a floor that could be scraped and cleaned, water proof and smooth, and thus switched to sawdust concrete. It worked out well and lasted over 30 years.
Now the sawdust cement that involves cordwood stacking is a bit different. It uses sawdust cement as a sort of motor that has some elasticisty to it. Because of the sawdust, it shrinks and swells with the amount of moisture in the air so that you cordwood walls are fairly flexable.
I looked into building a cordwood shed a few years ago, but kind of forgot about it. As a few of you know, I am a die hard snowmobiler and also work at a locomotive engine house...also known as a round house. I always wanted to build a semi-circular snowmobile shed, but as you know, regular construction round buildings do not go very well good together. Now cordwood construction would however. Thanks for kick starting that idea!
Would you share the formula for mixing up some of the sawdust cement?
Jim Rogers
Sure, but I will have to consult the Sawdust Cement expert for the recipe...my father!
Now just keep in mind one thing. Sawdust Cement is designed to be light in weight, it is not very strong. I don't think it would be allowed in any sort of building code or structural capacity. I figured you people knew that, but I just wanted to make sure I was clear on that point.
I'd be curious as to what you end up with when (if) the sawdust rots away. Something like 'seafoam' crete?
Maybe good, maybe not. I doubt that being 'encapsulated' in the concrete will keep oxygen away, and if not, the wood will likely (I'd think) decay as time passes. Hmmmmm?
Nice cabinets :) I'd personally like to see a shot and description of the dog-proof trash can. I bought a cheap trash can at Wally world that has a plastic lid that flips up when you push the button on the front...I mean it USED to flip up :( Now that there's nothing to hold the lid closed, the dog can easily get into the trash, so I had to put the trash can on the basement steps behind a closed door....but now that heating season is here that door is open when I'm home.
I've been thinking about building my own wooden, dog-proof trashcan holder for a while now. It'll just be temporary for now, since I'm not exactly sure how my new kitchen will be set up.
Back when that trash can worked, the dog used to see me hit that button and the lid would pop up. She never hit the button good enough, but she used to bounce her nose all over the top of that lid to get it to open :D
I have added some pictures of that dog proof trash bin. That's proably not what you expected as it is a pretty simple way to keep the dogs out of the trash and their dog food, but it works. I guess if there is any downside to it, it is that it takes up quite a bit of space that could be otherwise used for dishes/ pot storage. As I note in the pictures, there are two of these cabinets located on each side of the refridgerator. The one on the right is used for trash and dog food, while the one on the left is used for recycling materials.
As I said, this works well for our house, but may not work for you. In any case I am just glad to be showing you some of my ideas to get people to think outside the box so to speak. While you are thinking about new ideas though, think about using another wood type besides Oak. In my humble opinion, it is way, way, way over used.
Hey Beenthere,
I am not so sure the sawdust rots as you say. I do not know what happened to the concrete internally of course, but the concrete I speak of lasted very well. In fact it lasted over 30 years as a chicken house flooring. That was 30 years of using a garden tractor to scrap the floors, shovel and resawdust every 6 weeks or so. In the end we burned the old barn out from under the flooring I speak of, so other than remembering how the surface appeared at the time it was burned, I have no way of really judging how the concrete reacted internally.
Neat idea. That's the way the hamper is constructed in my parent's bathroom...just a large, hinged bin to throw the clothes in. As far as wood goes, it will be something extra lying around right now. When I finally get around to the kitchen it will be cherry. There's at least 800 bd. ft. of cherry lumber waiting in a shed patiently...some nice figured stuff in there too :)
Yeah you guys got better Black Cherry than us Mainers do that is for sure. I once traded a custome wooden model of a bulldozer for 100 ft of black cherry that came out of New York. Nice stuff, just wished I had more of it. I hate to say I got the better deal, but man I put that cherry to good use. As for the cherry that went into my cabinets shown here, that stuff came from Maine, and if you saw it, you would not believe that such ugly logs could make for such a nice set of cabinets.
The butt log on that cherry tree was about 4 feet in diameter ;D I salvaged it from a buiding site...the contractor was going to burn it :-\ One of those boards out in the shed still has a piece of insulator in it.
Opening a log in always interesting. I've milled logs that looked really nice, only to get junk lumber. I've also tried to talk customers out of milling certain logs, but milled them anyway b/c they wanted them (and I was getting paid anyway)...lots of nice lumber in some of them "junk" logs :)
I know what you mean. Recently I had a portable mill come in and convert some logs to boards. I had a lot of good butt cut logs, but I am not one to leave large diameter tops in the woods, just to get the best stuff. In the end I had the good with the bad.
I also kept grabbing boards that had a lot of wane on one side, but clear on the other. He kept looking at me funny and saying that he would edge them for me better. It was not that I did not want good boards, it was just that the boards were fine for the application I was using them for. I am no tree hugger by any means, but I do hate waste. Using rough lumber you end up with enough waste.
Heres some pictures of that operation.
http://www.railroadmachinist.com/Log_Milling.html
I think waney edges are great for the tops of tables, nightstands, dressers, chests, etc... :) I built a cherry hutch for someone a few years ago. On the bottom rail of the hutch top, instead of using a straight grained piece of wood and cutting an arch into it, I used a piece from a waney board that had a natural arch in it, complete with sapwood and bark. Wasn't sure if they'd like it as much as I did, but it turns out that's one of her favorite things about the hutch....makes you realize where that wood came from.
Deadwood, what kind of floor is in the kitchen? Is it tongue and groove?
It's White Ash, and no it's not tongue and grooved. I did not have quite enough 6 inch boards, or 8 inch boards or even ten inch boards, so I figured I would just alternate them. I laid the first 6 inch board straight down the centerline of the room and then placed an eight board on each side of that, then two ten inch boards and so on until my room was completed. It worked out so well that I carried it over to adjoining rooms as well.
Someday soon I want to refinish the floor, sand it smooth again and then screw and plug the flooring down. When I do that, I might just seal between the flooring to keep out the dirt that has a tendency to collect there. Other than that though I am happy with my floor. It has been 10 years since I put it down at a cost of around 18 cents a square foot.
So are the floor boards laid over plywood flooring? I like the looks of it too, but wondered what was underneath. Also, how did you lay them, are they nailed down or glued? It looks very nice. :)
The garbage bin is cool too. We have a similar deal, but the wastebaskets sit in a metal farme that is on gliders like a drawer. Then the whole thing just slides in & out. I keep my potatoes in one bin, and onions in the other. However I think the original intention was for garbage in one bin and recyclables in the other. ::)
The Ash boards are actually laid over 2 by 4 sleepers that are Hilti Gunned to the cocrete slab below. My house is rather odd in that it was orginally designed to be a garage. I was young when I first got married so I had to build a house and fast. With very little money to work with (no morgage mind you) I thought I would build a garage first and then build a house when I got older. To make a long story short, I never built my "house", so over the years my "garage" has turned out to be my home by getting bigger and fancier. That is the reason why all my floors are laid over a concrete slab instead of a crawls apce or a full foundation.
I was thinking that since some of you liked how I built my house to accomidate my dogs, you might like to see their unique kennel and their walkway out to it. Basically it allows the dogs to run in and out of the house as they please. There is a dog door between the dogwalk and the house, but it is shut only when it gets cold, so here in Maine that is like ten months out of the year! ;D Actually they have free access to their kennel and the house most of the time.
I covered the dogwalk so that the dogs would not go running off in the middle of the night, and because we get a lot of snow here in Maine and I did not want to have to shovel out the dogwalk if it got full of snow.
The final touch was building a tree house inside the kennel so my dogs could climb up high and look out across the countryside and bark to their hearts content. It works great because with a kennel, I do not have to worry about them getting out, or other animals getting in at them either. The kennel by the way is 24 by 24 so they have plenty of room to play. Still that does not explain why they seem to prefer lying on the couch all day!
Here is the link to that same webpage, but with some added pictures.
http://www.railroadmachinist.com/Cabinets
WELL DONE>>>>>
freddy
All looking real nice :)
is this like the sawdust concrete you used?
http://www.rainforestinfo.org.au/good_wood/sawment.htm#anchor256504
iain
Quote from: Deadwood on November 04, 2005, 02:02:11 AM
Yeah you guys got better Black Cherry than us Mainers do that is for sure. I once traded a custome wooden model of a bulldozer for 100 ft of black cherry that came out of New York. Nice stuff, just wished I had more of it. I hate to say I got the better deal, but man I put that cherry to good use. As for the cherry that went into my cabinets shown here, that stuff came from Maine, and if you saw it, you would not believe that such ugly logs could make for such a nice set of cabinets.
I'll agree with ya on the cherry, but I have managed to saw 8 foot stuff. I cut one down behind the house that grew 1 cm per year (54 cm on the stump). I have several more, but they are badly diseased. I've even cut pin cherry, 8 inches DBH , for a friend who had it milled out. DanGed 'ole black knot.
Quote from: Patty on November 05, 2005, 08:35:54 AM
So are the floor boards laid over plywood flooring? I like the looks of it too, but wondered what was underneath. Also, how did you lay them, are they nailed down or glued? It looks very nice. :)
That brings up a story. My folks were going to put hardwood flooring down (oak) and they figured they'de save a step for the contractor and decided to put down 1/4" plywood underlay. They slaved at it for 2 or 3 days and then they decided to ask the contractor if it would be ok. He said they didn't need it, so they didn't want to waste it and tore it all up. ;D :D
I like white ash, it's my favorite wood and probably favorite tree. Although, sugar maple and yellow birch are right up there. I made a 2 m x 2 m entertainment centre from ash off the woodlot. My mother's cupboards in the new house are made from bird's eye figured maple. The floors and fireplace mantle are yellow birch, doors and mouldings are white pine. Only thing from the factory is the birch flooring, but it's solid wood. I've made things from cherry too, like a spool bed and small bowl turnings.
Boy are we saplins from the same tree or what? I love Ash too, and back when I had a bunch sawed out, I made a gazzilion prjects from that wood type. Lately I have been using Cherry for the same reason, I had a lot of good quality boards to choose from, and thus I use was I have on hand. I have not made a lot of projects from Yellow Birch, but I have been thinking about having some sawed out. My Uncle made a hardwood floor from Yellow Birch and it came out nice, especially with the contrasting heart wood and sap wood. I just loved how the wood looked and I have a ton of it growing in the woods.
Myself I do not care for Oak, overused in my opinion, but I suppose if I had some I would use it. It's kind of funny, we have Ash Trees that are plentiful and huge, but on over 400 acres, we don't have a single Oak tree that is worth harvesting. I even ran into some Birds Eye Ash once which they say is pretty rare. I was pretty proud of that.
As for my next project, I was thinking about yellow birch. As you know, my first born child is on the way and I always said I was going to build he/she a very special cradle. I thought Yellow Birch would make a great wood to use as I have already made another cradle out of Ash. I did saw out an apple log awhil ago. It's pretty dry so I could use that too I'm sure, but I'm going to be doing a lot of hand cut dovetails on this cradle, so I don't think I want to be pounding my chisels all day into apple. Man is that wood hard!
The other wood I use constantly that you did not mention is Beech. The wood is hard that is for sure, but moves terrably. I built some bathroom cabinets out of the wood and was it ever hard. Certainly nothing you would want to make hand cut dovetails out of, or raised panels for that matter either. My panels are begining to rattle now since the furnace fired up, but in the summer they are jammed right up tight. For those of you that have not worked with Beech, it is very tempermental in changes in humidity. Air Drying is nearly impossable as well, but it too is hard. When drilled, the wood shavings peel out of the hole like you are drilling through steel, one unbroken corkscrewed curly que!
Most beech around here is dead or 3/4 dead. On a couple woodlots I marked some undiseased beech to leave standing for future crop trees and seed. I even marked 'plus tree' on the bark because they were in amongst severely diseased trees, yet they never had a blemish on them. My uncle had a 24 inch beech on his woodlot that was unblemished, except you could see the claw marks of a bear that climbed it for the nuts. Bears make nests up in beech in heavy seed years, they do this my pulling in the branches to obtain the nuts. The branches break off and it looks like a nest up there. The beech became firewood as my uncle is more interested in keeping warm than saving trees. ;)
Our Beech is heavily diseased as well, though there is this one tree. Right in the middle of the Beech Ridge this huge Beech grows with no sign of disease at all. I really can't explain why it's fine an the other Beech aren't, but there it is.
Because of that Beech Saw Logs are impossable to get. You have to ask local loggers to save it out for you if you want some, and most are hesitant at that. It's better to saw your own logs, if you can fine enough Smooth Bark Beech as we call them here anyway.
Deadwood
I really like those cabinets.
We use paint shop pro and don't have to much trouble with the pictures. They are not as clear as I'd like but it works. If you need some help just IM us.
Tom
Here beech spalts a treat
and the disease is normaly beech snap
the ends of the branch's get very brittle and "snap" off
and there is a lot of it about
i do use a good amount of beech in my work and have some 120" x 36" x 2.5" going through the kiln at the moment
most will go as table tops
as they have some stunning wavy burgandy staining running through them
(them planks is also very heavy)
it can be quite unstable but you can work around things like that when the figure is right ;)
iain
I have never heard of Beech Snap before, but that would describe the series of bumps all those Beech have. For what it is worth they are also short and stubby trees, but should be growing on pretty good soil. Gravelly Loam to the depth of three or four feet.
As for the Spalting, I too work a lot with that kind of wood. It is so beautiful with the mineral streaks and whatnot. I cut an apple tree a few years ago in hopes that it would spalt, but it did not happen. Beech on the other hand is very predictable. Her in humid coastal Maine anyway, give it a 12-14 months out in the field and you got some nice spalted beech.
As for drying beech, I lack a kiln so I air dry. I did hear though that kiln drying is very hard to accomplish, but has better results than air drying.
Bulletin on Beech bark disease (http://www.glfc.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/frontline/PDFFiles/bulletin_no._3_eng.pdf) PDF format
BBD in Catskill Mnts NY (http://www.ecostudies.org/reprints/Griffin_et_al_CJFR_2003.pdf) PDF format