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Anybody sold Mushroom Logs?

Started by Old Greenhorn, December 26, 2020, 04:18:04 PM

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Old Greenhorn

I know, this might sound nutso but .... When I took my silviculture class and we did the field work, part of the tour was through a working mushroom growing operation near a stream out in the woods. I will spare you the process, but they work these logs, they call 'bolts' through a rotation of about 4 weeks and every 4 weeks a group of bolts produces a crop of shitake mushrooms, selling at around 7 or more bucks per pound (to the wholesaler). Apparently this is quite the little cottage industry in our area. The gal giving the talk mentioned that getting her bolts was a bit of a hassle because most loggers don't want to be bothered with the little stuff and little bucks. The 'logs' are about 4-6" diameter x 4' long or so and the preferred species for Shitakes is White Oak (not easy to find around here, but there is some). She said she had to use her "sweet talking skills' to get one of her neighbor loggers to learn how to handle the logs and get her what she needed. She also mentioned that it is a nice little side job for anyone who cares to take the time and effort. At the time I filed that information away in the back of my tiny brain. 
 Well a few days ago I got a call from a guy looking for an "Oak Log" after we played 20 questions I learned he was looking for a piece of log to grow with a mushroom growing kit he bought for a child with a great interest in Mushrooms. He (they) is (are) growing shitakes, so I gave him the full breadth of my knowledge on the subject in about 30 seconds. Eventually he came and got a 12" piece of white Oak which I just gave him, it cost me a lot more than it was worth, but he gave me a nice 'thank you' tip anyway. The whole little episode made me re-think back to that class and I realized there might be an opportunity here. I did some research to see if I could find suppliers of such logs for the mushroom folks. I found none locally. The required work is right up my alley, small scale, no heavy equipment, just need to have a source.
 I have since sent out a couple of emails to a local mushroom grower asking for advice or leads, and a forestry consultant I know for the same, but given the holiday it will like be a few days or more before I hear back.
 Now I know these logs have to be 4-6" diameter and either 3 or 4' long depending on the user. They have to be cut and handled by hand because any damage to the bark allows other bacteria to enter the log and reduce growing capacity. One log should last 2 -3 years before it is shot. They should also be cut when the tree is dormant (winter), which is now. SO I am trying to move quickly on this to get it started, assuming there is anything to start. The going price I was given was 3-4 bucks a bolt. I figure I can find (and already have found 1) a few loggers/cutters I know that will let me come in when they get the right species and cut some stuff out of their slash before it gets chipped or stacked or run over as long as I sty out of their way and leave a light footprint. But this is all new to me and you should see the blank stares I get back from cutters when I ask if they know anything about it.
 SO having said all that, my question is, does anybody here have any experience supplying mushroom growers with logs or wood chips, or sawdust? (all these are used in mushrooms for various species and growing methods.)
 Just looking for some input or maybe and interesting conversation. You have to start somewhere, right?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

dchiapin

Funny you brought this up. I had a guy call me a few weeks ago wanting our oak sawdust for the same reason.
I had some but it was sorta mixed up with pine sawdust and he said no that that won't work.
Sure wish I had kept his phone number because just a week later I sawed a bunch of oak,
He said it did not matter that we only have (mostly) red oak here in this part of north Florida that any oak will work.
Maybe some one from the Institute of Shitake Mushrooms and Research will chime in

Old Greenhorn

Well, I don't have the link right now, but if you do a little searching you can find a listing of which woods are best for growing each species of mushrooms. Yes, any oak will work for shitakes, but white oak is preferred by most. I don't know anybody around here that grows in sawdust (yet), but wow, what a great way to get rid of it!
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

ehp

yes I have, mainly out of the tops here cause we cannot cut small trees to make them, I sold a bunch in the spring again this year . Mainly here its black or red oak 

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: ehp on December 26, 2020, 04:56:16 PM
yes I have, mainly out of the tops here cause we cannot cut small trees to make them, I sold a bunch in the spring again this year . Mainly here its black or red oak
@ehp if you don't mind me asking, what sizes and species do you cut and what can you get for them? Do you do large quantities, or just a few?
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Haleiwa

Here is a link to some fact sheets from Cornell.  The one on pricing bolts ranges from .50 per bolt if you do all the work cutting out of tops to $3.00 for bolts cut and delivered to the customer.  Note that oak, maple, beech, and birch will all work.  Supposedly an expert can pick out differences in flavor depending on the log species used.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

ehp

here they only want oak period , I get $3 average sitting on landing , No I do not do alot of them but if one of the guys that grows mushrooms needs some I will cut a bunch to keep him going , 48 inches long and over 3 inch but under 8 inch diameter , most times 6 inch or less. they get heavy fast . If I get a clear cut job that has oak in it thats small I cut stuff for them to 

ehp

firewood pays as much and easier to lift 

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: Haleiwa on December 26, 2020, 04:59:59 PM
Here is a link to some fact sheets from Cornell.  The one on pricing bolts ranges from .50 per bolt if you do all the work cutting out of tops to $3.00 for bolts cut and delivered to the customer.  Note that oak, maple, beech, and birch will all work.  Supposedly an expert can pick out differences in flavor depending on the log species used.
Yes, for shitakes. But there are a lot of different mushrooms I am told. :D This is the best list I have found for my purposes.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: ehp on December 26, 2020, 05:06:27 PM
firewood pays as much and easier to lift
You know at 3 bucks a bolt, I am not so sure.  :D  Firewood is all about quantities and volume. I can't do that (in case you missed the memo, I am old and equipment poor ;D). I just see this as a nice way to generate some cash while getting some time in the woods. Delivering these bolts out of a pickup for cash seems to be a workable thing for me as long as the quantities are reasonable. Yeah, $.50 on the landing really isn't worth it, but $150 to $250 for a delivered load in the area does appeal to me. My needs aren't great, not trying to get rich, just buy food and beer and help somebody with what they need.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Otis1

North Spore out of Maine has a good website with lots of different products and some tutorial videos. I did a couple of their box kits this fall, oyster mushrooms and lion's mane; very easy and grew well. They also sell all of the stuff to innoculate logs (really pulp sticks). They have a bunch of info on what species of tree works best/ only for a variety of mushrooms. There is also better times of year to cut the tree down and it should be hand cut, not harvester because you want the bark to stay on and not be damaged. I just cut an 8" sugar maple to try and grow some lion's mane this spring.

I think this time of year until just before leaf out is the best time to cut because of all the stored nutrients. It seems like to make sense selling mushroom logs at scale, you would want to take orders ahead of time and then fulfill in winter/ spring. Also, there's some extra handling and what not because they want them 4' long. 

Old Greenhorn

Yes, north spore is the one I had the link to in the post above. I am aware of the cutting and handling requirements, I think I mentioned those above also. I am not looking to grow mushrooms, I am looking to see if there is a niche market I can help fill for these logs and looking to see what the experience of other folks on the forum is with this market. There is a vast amount of knowledge out there if you ask the right question and these folks are always generous in sharing it with others who are working toward a goal. I am glad to see there is a growing interest in home grown mushrooms, now I have to figure out how to help with that need.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Corley5

No mushroom logs but I've sold logs for hugel mound construction 🙂
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

WDH

I did the red oak sawdust for mushrooms thing once.  Collected the red oak sawdust and kept it pure.  In the end, the effort on my part was not commiserate with the return and I chose to forgo future opportunity. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dustintheblood

I drilled 15,000 holes last summer in ironwood and oak logs.  Spores were plugs, and capped with wax.

Will let you know how I make out this summer with the first crop.
Case 75C, Case 1494, RangeRoad RR10T36, Igland 4001, Hardy 1400ST, WM LT40HD, WM Edger, ICS DH Kiln

mudfarmer

Talked to a commercial grower last year, he gets his bolts from the same guy he gets his firewood from. Keeps him a good relationship with single provider and the lucky firewood guy gets to make three less cuts per stick  ;D

leeroyjd

@Old Greenhorn 
You should grow your own so you can tell the growers first hand that Shitakes grow equally well in Red, Black, or White Oak.
We don't have much White Oak here so used mostly Black Oak.
I had someone email our website last year looking for some.
I'll try to find it to see what we discussed for pricing.
Never did materialize, due to distance if memory serves.
He may have even been in New York. I do remember asking why he could not source them closer.

doc henderson

I have grown some mushroom's on oak logs, but they were not cultivated, and I would not eat them. :)
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

aigheadish

I'm not useful for the topic of selling these kinds of logs but I did do a little research into the grower side of things. If you can work out the operation I think there is a ton of money to be made from it. I would imagine lockdowns are hurting the business if you can't sell your mushrooms to restaurants as much as you could but from the stuff I was looking at you could do pretty well. I think I determined that I'm not clean or organized enough to work it out for myself.
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

Old Greenhorn

Actually you can do well with these if you have a market and there are a lot of health food and organic shops around here that will buy direct from growers even when the restaurants aren't doing much. I had gotten enough from a class to understand the process and saw it in operation. What I lack is a water source and a way to soak the logs for an easy operation. Once you spend a day or two inoculating the logs it only takes a couple of hours a week to do the running work. With 4 sets of logs in rotation you will get one crop every week. It's just a question of how many logs you can handle in each set. You do need a little space, preferably cool and shady and near that water source. 
 I don't really have the space or the water source and right now I have too many other things to do. Supplying the logs is just something I am looking into as another niche I could fill, pick up some cash, and make some more contacts. There are a bunch of growers around here, I just have to hook up.
 Anybody can do anything if they have a plan and have good resources to fill in the questions that come up along the way. Persistence pays, I am sure you could make it work. Start with one log and supply your own kitchen needs. They sell kits with everything you need to get started, and it is not rocket science. :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

chep

My partner has a small operation.  Growing shitake on maple logs. 

My take aways. 
1. Its not easy. Slugs love mushrooms!
2. You have to be around and monitor constantly.  Moisture requirements,  harvest requirements are key. 
3. Its not easy money 

I have also sold logs to people. Reminds me of old timers telling me about logging 4 ft pulp all day. They used pull hooks and threw the pieces of 4dt around willy Billy.  The thing about mushroom logs is just cant throw them around. They need to be treated DELICATELY.  that's where most of us fail. Hahah.  Try moving 100 pieces of of 4 ft 4-8 inch sugar maple around delicate like and your back will tell you that it's for the birds. 
Cant skid them. Cant drop them, cant bust them with the grapple. 

Fun hobby. Delicious dinners. But a Tough business to succeed in. 

doc henderson

Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: chep on December 29, 2020, 08:39:15 AM
Fun hobby. Delicious dinners. But a Tough business to succeed in.
No doubt. It's farming plain and simple, and I don't know any farming that is easy. WHen I implied it was easy, I was thinking about as a side job with only 40-100 logs working at any one time. Making a living is another story, there are a few around here that do that and make out well, but they work long hours and supplement with teaching classes, doing mushroom walks, making mushroom extracts, and all the other side ventures. THAT is not easy by any means and take years to develop, but for household or small local sales, not a bad way to pick up some extra busks if you have the space and the logs and some time.
 And Yes, Happy Birthday Danny!
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

mike_belben

Quote from: chep on December 29, 2020, 08:39:15 AM
My partner has a small operation.  Growing shitake on maple logs.

My take aways.
1. Its not easy. Slugs love mushrooms!
2. You have to be around and monitor constantly.  Moisture requirements,  harvest requirements are key.
3. Its not easy money

I have also sold logs to people. Reminds me of old timers telling me about logging 4 ft pulp all day. They used pull hooks and threw the pieces of 4dt around willy Billy.  The thing about mushroom logs is just cant throw them around. They need to be treated DELICATELY.  that's where most of us fail. Hahah.  Try moving 100 pieces of of 4 ft 4-8 inch sugar maple around delicate like and your back will tell you that it's for the birds.
Cant skid them. Cant drop them, cant bust them with the grapple.

Fun hobby. Delicious dinners. But a Tough business to succeed in.
This is probably why sawdust in bags with slits indoors on warehouse shelving is the norm. 
Praise The Lord

Old Greenhorn

The sawdust beds require constant tending, the logs require very little, so it depends on the growers goal. Some species will not grow in logs at all and require wood chips. Different log species for different mushroom species. It's all very scientific. ;D
 One of the ways I have heard to handle these is to hand cut the tops in the woods and stack them cord like on a skip, then strap the load on when it is full and move with forks on a tractor. They can go right in a truck bed for delivery. Makes sense to me. But yeah, it is a lot of hand work, which would suit me fine for a seasonal sideline, not a full time gig. I am just exploring the possibilities. BTW, it's funny, but I hate mushrooms, never eat 'em. ;D :D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

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