timber framing job information

[lochridge]

perhaps this is the wrong place to ask a question or two,....but I know of no better location.
I am curious about timber framing construction and the business of.
I have been working on stick built houses for most of my life, and the last 7 years I have been in an office setting behind a computer drawing custom homes on microstation (a form of autocad). 
my family and I are thinking real hard about moving to Tennessee.  and since I know very little (I read books and visit this site) about timber framing, I was curious if someone here can enlighten me on the process of working at a timber framing office or even in the field.
I know that those are both broad questions, but until I understand it a little more I don't have a specific set of questions.
Ideally I would like to do both, design and build, but I know most companies hire for specific jobs.
some other questions that some might be able to answer.
pay scale?
insurance?
most commonly used computer program?
how big are most offices?....number of people?

I am sure there are many more.  any bit of information will help me I am sure
thank you for your time
Adam

[D L Bahler]

These things will be all over the board
there are large companies with dozens of workers, there are small shops with 2 or 3, it can even be done by one guy and a tractor.
Pay scale will be all over too, depending on experience, location, level that the homes are, and just what you do and who you work for.

Some use Autocad, some use sketchup these days. Some still use pencil and paper. Me I go for hand drawings, I know how to use autocad (was trained to use it in school, top of my class, and so on) but don't like sitting behind a computer. I'd rather draw it out by hand. Sure it's more limiting, but that's part of the appeal of it really.

Think about how you want to do it. DO you like big power tools? Do you like the pleasant and perhaps more relaxed experience of hand tools? Do you like traditional approaches? Are you more in line with modernist/minimalist approaches? Do you like to work with a big company with lots of benefits? Would you rather work with a small team with a good atmosphere?

I realize I haven't answered any of your questions, just tried to point out you should narrow down to what your ideal is, then it will be easier to help you.

[lochridge]

no, no no...that was a good reply.
lots to think about.
it is hard to judge what I want and what my family needs.
I like the small scale do it yourself atmosphere of an office.  but we need decent insurance for my wife and kid(s). 
when I do woodworking myself, I like a little bit of a mix between traditional hand tools and some power tools, but mostly it is hand tools.

[Raider Bill]

Welcome to the FF

Where in Tennessee are you considering?

[lochridge]

from my looking about the web, it seems that most of the timber framing companies reside near the knoxville side of the state (east).  so i think i would be drawn that direction.  besides, i really like the mountains too, they are great for motorcycle riding.
we have some friends in the clarksville area.  so that would be convenient, but i cannot seem to finds much in the way over there.

[logman]

If it was me I would learn a timber framing design program.  That way you can try and slide into it on your own from where you are presently at and you can move anywhere once you get going.  I believe there is lots of work out there for designers because I alone have given my designer about 7 or 8 jobs in the last year.  He uses CadWork. 

[witterbound]

I did an apprenticeship for a timberframe co in NC.  They cut about a frame a month.  Tis was back before the economy tanked.  They had two in the office, one did marketing/working with customers on ideas, etc, and one who designed the house/frame.  That was before sketch up made design software available to folks who didn't have the time to learn autocad or some other software especially designed for timberframes.  My hunch is that you're gonna have a tough time finding a smaller shop that can use your design skills full time, and they won't be able to pay you enough for working in the shop.  I think you're going to focus on larger companies, wherever those are....

[lochridge]

that is kinda the feeling i am getting too.
i like the smaller company, but i don't think it will work for what i need in the long run.

[Brucer]

I did custom sawing for a small timber frame shop for 4 years. The owner did some of the design work, they had one full time designer, and they had  a full-time designer/draftsman. The owner and full time designer also did project management on the larger jobs.

The crew varied between 15 (in the summer) and 2 (in the winter). That worked out for everyone because the shop was at the base of a world-class ski-hill; funny thing, most of the crew were ski-bums ;D.

Pay varied between 50% over minimum wage for a shop-floor trainee, to 2-1/2 times minimum wage for an experienced framer. I'm sure the designers made more. There was a modest benefits package (but in Canada health insurance isn't an issue).

That shop was not run very efficiently -- the owner told me he was out of his depth. He started as a tree-planter and things just kinda got out of hand. His last year in business (before he died) he had hired a very sharp office manager and she really got things on track -- right in the middle of the recession, too. I think if he'd lived the business would have flourished and the pay scale would have gone up.

[Jim_Rogers]

I haven't been there lately but there is a "help wanted" board on the timber framers business council site where I was told jobs are listed by members of the timber framers business council.
I think you maybe even able to post there that you're looking for a job in timber framing. But don't hold me to that. As I said I haven't been there lately.
Also, there is the design forum on the timber framers guild website. You could post there that you're looking for a design job.
I don't know if any timber framing companies are looking for a designer right now. I haven't heard of anything lately.

Jim Rogers
PS. with simple Google searches you should be able to find these two sites. But if not let me know and I'll post the links for you.

[Brad_bb]

My first recommendation would be to take a week long timberframe workshop.  There is a lot that is different from stick building, and this will teach you a lot.  It doesn't matter if you do not plan to be cutting or erecting the frames, the experience will be just as valuable to you as a designer.  One workshop will not nearly be the end of your education.  I took a workshop that used power tools and used planed timbers.  I then took a second workshop that used rough sawn, irregular timbers, using a very different layout method, and using all hand tools to cut.  I learned a lot in both.  This forum is a great place to ask questions and pick up tips.  In the couple years after the workshops, I participated in a few raising.  Then I helped to teach a TF workshop.  You learn a lot when you have to teach others!  Those are my initial recommendations.

[Thehardway]

Lochridge,

Welcome to the best forum on the web for DIY log and timberframe.

Everyone has an opinion here and there are a lot of good ones. 

My take on your questions is that it will be difficult at best to find a full time benefited job in the Tennessee/ Mid-atlantic region doing just design work for a TF shop.  I might be wrong but all of the shops I know are small and do not pay a whole lot, especially for workers who can't fill more than one role.

Are you a PE?
Do you have project management experience?
Are you a certified lumber grader?
How about sales experience?
Can you double in the shop as a layout guy?
How are you on materials aquisition, bidding, quotation, etc.

In many of the shops around here, that might be the job description for one person.  And that person most likely is covering their own benefits.  The more roles you can fill the greater your chances of success in finding a job.

There are a lot of shops in Northern Georgia, Western NC, Eastern Tennessee and SW Virginia due to the regions low cost of labor, proximity to good timber resources and nearby east coast markets.

If you want to know who they are check out some of the log and timber home expos.  You can talk to some of their people face to face and get a feel for the atmosphere at their company.

The Mid-atlantic housing market is pretty messed up right now and will likely take a while to straighten out.

I might suggest trying to find some work with a commercial design firm that specializes in TF/log accents.  Companies that do restaurants and storefronts.   They would have a much better position to give you the benefits you desire and give you more opportunity to get your work out in public where it can be seen on  a daily basis.  While doing this you would increase your knowledge of methods and materials expand your knowledge base.  This experience would be attractive to many of the TF firms who are trying to tap into the commercial market to supplement the custom home business.

I see a big need for a traveling lumber grader and a PE who can review and stamp TF designs at a reasonable cost.  He would be assured of repeat business and likely some design work.  Good chance he would be able to do contract work for several TF companies.