Milling Cherry and a Black Walnut Question

Tim/South · April 17, 2009, 11:35:16 PM

I have 3 large Cherry logs a customer wants milled for future cabinets.
His cabinet maker told him that I should set the scale for 1", getting a 7/8 board. He also wants one live edge and will size and plane himself.

Would you level the log with the heart, or with the bark?
Is there anything in particular I should pay attention to?

Also, I was given a Black Walnut log that was tilted by a storm. The tree has been dead for about 10 years I am told. The wood is solid and rock hard. There are some thin cracks on the small end that run about 3".
Is this log worth milling? If so, should it be quarter sawn?

Thanks in advance for any input.

pigman · April 17, 2009, 11:53:36 PM

I don't understand why the cabinet maker wants the cherry that thin. I always saw to at least get a 1" green board. I would saw with the heart level since cherry usually has very little taper. Cherry looks best, I think, when flat sawn, so I don't see how you can have a live edge on many of the boards unless you saw through an through.That would give you a lot of quarter sawn boards. But, the customer is always right. ;D You should talk to the cabinet maker , if possible, to make sure there is no confusion on what they want.
The walunt will have cracks that will run deep, but might be worth sawing if it has some size.

Handy Andy · April 18, 2009, 03:17:08 AM

Before I got my own mill, hauled some logs to a guy with a WM, and he sawed it on the inch scale. Green it was about 15/16, and dry was about 7/8. All I could get out of it was 5/8" cleaned up. I like my lumber sawed on the 4/4 scale, so it will clean up at least to 3/4" thick.

Don K · April 18, 2009, 05:14:10 AM

Like Andy, I think any wood that will be finish planed should be sawn on 4/4 scale at minimum.

Don

Sawyerfortyish · April 18, 2009, 07:31:15 AM

I used to saw at exactly 1" but found it hard to get 3/4 out of every board. Now I saw at 1and 1/16 and every board cleans up. I've had a lot of cabinet makers want lumber sawn through and through and on a circle mill it cuts fast. The walnut is fine just cut it. It will have a little degrade on the ends and if the bark is off it will have dry checks but ya never know what it's like until you saw it

Dodgy Loner · April 18, 2009, 08:09:52 AM

Tim: I would not definitely not saw those logs without getting in touch with the cabinetmaker. He may have very good reasons for wanting the logs sawn the way your customer directed. On the other hand, your customer may have gotten the directions confused. The cabinetmaker should be able to sort things out. Most of the cherry I've cut I sawed through-and-through, specifically to get a blend of flatsawn and quartersawn material. The flatsawn stuff makes great panels and table tops, but straight-grained quartersawn material is far superior for things like door frames and face frames. You need a good supply of both for most cabinetmaking projects.

The black walnut log might be work milling. You won't know until you mill it ;D. I wouldn't go to any extra lengths to quartersaw walnut unless I had customer who wanted it. Grade saw it if it has any size to it.

Tim/South · April 18, 2009, 10:09:51 AM

Thanks for the replies. You guys have confirmed what I suspected and was told by another sawyer.
I tried my best to get the older gentleman to agree to letting me mill the cherry at least 4/4. He is nice, but insistent that 1" (7/8) is what he wants. I can not see how there will be any thickness once the boards dry and then planed.
He wanted to come out and watch which is great with me. He called and canceled the morning appointment and we have rescheduled until an afternoon this week.

I would rather saw the logs with him here and seeing the the thickness of the first few boards before continuing to saw.

The Walnut still has all the bark. Looks like I am going to put on a new band and see what it looks like inside.

Thanks for the advice and insight.

Dan_Shade · April 18, 2009, 10:29:30 AM

does he want 1" after sawing, or to saw on every inch?

the guy is setting himself up for a bunch of junk wood.

it can put you in a bad spot, if it does turn out all junk, he could claim it to be your fault....

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2009, 01:10:05 PM

Do you happen to have a planer. You could run the first flitch through, and see if it cleans up completely, before cutting all the logs ???

Dan_Shade · April 18, 2009, 01:31:10 PM

that's a good idea, but doesn't accomodate for warping and shrinking...

If the lumber is to be used for projects or furniture, I'm pretty adamant about sawing 4/4 lumber at 1 1/8", I'll go 1 1/16, but I don't like to do it. I'll saw whatever for barn siding.

I always tell the customer, that if it were me, I'd rather have 10 good boards, rather than 12 bad ones. It is still their decision, but I really like to make sure they know what they are getting.

Fla._Deadheader · April 18, 2009, 02:22:48 PM

Warp and bowing is pretty easy to explain. Saw marks, are another entirely different thing. ANY visual aid is going to educate the customer.

Tim/South · April 18, 2009, 04:14:46 PM

Quote from: Dan_Shade on April 18, 2009, 10:29:30 AM
does he want 1" after sawing, or to saw on every inch?

the guy is setting himself up for a bunch of junk wood.

it can put you in a bad spot, if it does turn out all junk, he could claim it to be your fault....

He wants me to saw on 1" and told me that would make each board 7/8. He said he got his information from the cabinet maker.
He is going to have the boards kiln dried, then air dry then under his shed for 2 years.

I do not have my planer set up. It is still in the shipping crate in my basement.

I may have him sign a work order before I begin sawing the logs.

Tom Sawyer · April 18, 2009, 07:09:51 PM

Quote from: Tim/South on April 18, 2009, 04:14:46 PM

He is going to have the boards kiln dried, then air dry then under his shed for 2 years.

??? ??? ??? ??? Why kiln dry and then air dry? This makes no sense to me.

Cut the walnut!

Tom

Tim/South · April 18, 2009, 08:13:32 PM

I wondered about the kiln dried then placing them under a shed. That is what the carpenter told him to do.
Would drying first help protect the wood from bugs in some way? That is all I could figure.

metalspinner · April 18, 2009, 08:56:47 PM

You need to get the cabinet guy on the phone. Things just are not adding up.

The width of the boards you saw could be a determining factor on the thickness you saw. You may be able to fudge down a 1/16" if all the boards are to be 6" or so, but for wider ones 1 1/16" is minimum for me. Really wide - like 16"+ I like 5/4. Cherry also tends to cup quite a bit if sap is on face and heart on the other. But I air dry then solar kiln my lumber. Maybe a regular kiln can control the warp better???

low_48 · April 18, 2009, 09:02:15 PM

I always make my panels 5/8" thick in cabinet doors made as frame and panel. That is also the way I make end panels that show. If he rough rips the stock for the frames and face frames, he probably will have enough thickness. Personally, I would cut it thicker for myself, but he may have his method.

Frickman · April 18, 2009, 10:36:55 PM

When commercial mills saw grade lumber, which is what you are going to saw, we saw1/8" plump up to 8/4, then after that we usually saw 1/4" plump. This takes in account shrinkage from drying and planing and gives a little leeway if for variation in thickness between boards. If I send a grade board to a buyer that is exactly 1" it will not go as 4/4 lumber.