I recently purchased a Cats Claw Sharpener and it's set up for 10° Woodmizer blades. The problem is that I prefer 9° and 7° angle, which are standard on WM blades. The sharpener also has a setting for 8°. Cooks says I can add another setting hole to get a 9° angle, but I started wondering if others who use this sharpener with WM blades just start using either the 10° or 8° angles. I'm wondering if I shouldn't just sharpen my 9's to 8's? What do you think?
Thanks,
YH
I sharpen to 8°. No problems for me.
I sharpen to 8° with our any trouble.
I normally use 10°, but I had some Spruce to do last Fall, so I adjusted my Cat Claw sharpener and changed a few 10's to 8. No problem!
They cut pretty good, in fact I was impressed with the difference.
I have been sharpening on 8's for a while ,can't tell much difference .
Honestly Hammer I don't think you'll notice a change of a degree or two. As with most sharpeners you must have an accurate machinests protractor to check the machines setting. The cats claw has a pivoting head and drilled holes for various angles, anything in between can be had by a shim under the shoulder bolt. When you check the angle it helps to have a white sheet of paper behind and leave a small gap between the protractor and the tooth face. Set and sharp is what really matters. Frank C.
Just sharpen tham all to 8 degrees and be done with it. What hp is your mill? Most likely it will cut better with 8 degree vs. 10 degree.
For some reason, most mill manufacturers tend to want to push 10 degree but 7 or 8 degree for just about all of my customers is the best.
It is seldom mentioned but as the grinding wheel on a drag type sharpener wears you get slightly less hook angle, for the most part its a good thing. If you keep dressing the wheel to hold the angle your going to waste a lot of wheel. I dress the ceramic wheel when new then seldom touch it, they seem to last forever. The only way to know on a drag machine is to use a good protractor, you may be surprised that your getting less hook than you think, and liking it. Frank C.
Really glad Frank C. got on this. I agree 100% with his comments. I have a 16 hp Kohler engine on my Cooks MP32 mill. I don't go less than 8 degrees on my bands. I don't encounter frozen logs and have no real problems with most hardwoods. If I were a production sawyer and had more power I would consider lesser degree settings. Good topic about a great piece of equipment. Paid for my Cat's Claw very quickly, I do sharpen for others...........Say your prayers
I appreciate all the help, and that's what I was hoping you folks would say. I couldn't see how there would be much difference in one degree. I have the Yanmar Diesel so I've got decent power and have run 10 degree to 4 degree blades without issues.
This is definitely a new skill I need to develop so I can use all the advice I can get. Here are the new sharpener and setter in the sharpening room, previously known as the "garage" ;D
After reading all the replies, I bought a machinist protractor today, and tried to get the hang of both the setter and the sharpener.
I've read as much of the past Forum posts I could find on using this sharpener and setter and watched some utube videos, but have no first hand, eyes on experience with sharpening and setting, other than me working with it this week.
I appreciate any tips you can give me.
YH
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image%7E31.jpg)
I think you'll find that machine is truly amazing. Did you go to the factory to pick it up? I got a lesson, short and simple when I picked up mine and that alone was worth the trip. It's pretty easy to operate and adjust. If you have any specific questions I'll be glad to go over it with you.
A few well placed 20" boards with braces back to the wall will help with sorting and storing saws ;) Dull-set-sharp-oiled
Always keep all but the last saw pointed towards the wall for safety. :)
YH why did you not get a Wood Mizer sharpener and setter ? You have their mill and blades. ???
Hammer, you have a nice well lit setup there, mine is in a dank old cellar but at least its warm. Frank C.
Quote from: YellowHammer on February 11, 2014, 09:25:48 PM
I appreciate all the help, and that's what I was hoping you folks would say. I couldn't see how there would be much difference in one degree. I have the Yanmar Diesel so I've got decent power and have run 10 degree to 4 degree blades without issues.
This is definitely a new skill I need to develop so I can use all the advice I can get. Here are the new sharpener and setter in the sharpening room, previously known as the "garage" ;D
After reading all the replies, I bought a machinist protractor today, and tried to get the hang of both the setter and the sharpener.
I've read as much of the past Forum posts I could find on using this sharpener and setter and watched some utube videos, but have no first hand, eyes on experience with sharpening and setting, other than me working with it this week.
I appreciate any tips you can give me.
YH
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image%7E31.jpg)
YH; I see you have your setter and sharpener on wheel carts, which will be very handy!
I don't know about the setter you have, but I know that the sharpener is very heavy (about 150 pounds), so just be careful it doesn't tip over when you are moving it!
Be careful and congrats on the new equipment!
If you send 10 degree bands to Woodmizer Resharp Service, Can a different angle (9,8 or 7) be specified for the resharps?
Quote from: Sixacresand on February 12, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
If you send 10 degree bands to Woodmizer Resharp Service, Can a different angle (9,8 or 7) be specified for the resharps?
They probably wouldn't do it.....but I'm just guessing.
Chuck,
You are right, they are heavy beasts. I chopped the metal legs and lowered both carts six inches which should make them more stable.
Peter,
The WM equipment is a Cadillac, no doubt, but I liked the flexibility of the Cooks. I also got a great deal on the Cooks, so saved significant $$. One of the deciding factors was video showing CustomSawyer running both at the same time so I could see them running back to back.
Quote from: customsawyer on October 06, 2013, 05:31:53 PM
I run both the WM pro series CBN sharpener and the Cooks Sharpener. There are things that I like and dislike about both. There is a learning curve on both machines. To this day if I had to have just one sharpener I don't know which one I would pick.
Here is a short video of the two sharpeners side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qJOL0xb6VsY
I spent a lot of time working with both the last couple days. The first band I sharpened was a mess, but I was able to fix most of my issues and ran it on the mill today and it did OK. I also ran another band that I set and sharpened and it did a lot better, still not as good as I think I can get, but it sure cut well. Here's a picture of some walnut I sawed with it today, the surface is generally pretty smooth
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image%7E33.jpg)
Backwoods, good tip. I need to put some band hangers in the garage.
For you folks who use the dual tooth setter, how do you "zero" out the dial indicators on every blade's neutral tooth without unsetting or messing up the adjacent teeth in the setting clamps? Do you back the setting blocks out every blade?
YH
Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on February 12, 2014, 10:30:14 PM
Quote from: Sixacresand on February 12, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
If you send 10 degree bands to Woodmizer Resharp Service, Can a different angle (9,8 or 7) be specified for the resharps?
They probably wouldn't do it.....but I'm just guessing.
I've asked, they won't.
YH
Quote from: YellowHammer on February 12, 2014, 10:41:30 PM
Chuck,
You are right, they are heavy beasts. I chopped the metal legs and lowered both carts six inches which should make them more stable.
Peter,
The WM equipment is a Cadillac, no doubt, but I liked the flexibility of the Cooks. I also got a great deal on the Cooks, so saved significant $$. One of the deciding factors was video showing CustomSawyer running both at the same time so I could see them running back to back.
Quote from: customsawyer on October 06, 2013, 05:31:53 PM
I run both the WM pro series CBN sharpener and the Cooks Sharpener. There are things that I like and dislike about both. There is a learning curve on both machines. To this day if I had to have just one sharpener I don't know which one I would pick.
Here is a short video of the two sharpeners side by side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qJOL0xb6VsY
I spent a lot of time working with both the last couple days. The first band I sharpened was a mess, but I was able to fix most of my issues and ran it on the mill today and it did OK. I also ran another band that I set and sharpened and it did a lot better, still not as good as I think I can get, but it sure cut well. Here's a picture of some walnut I sawed with it today, the surface is generally pretty smooth
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image%7E33.jpg)
For you folks who use the dual tooth setter, how do you "zero" out the dial indicators on every blade's neutral tooth without unsetting or messing up the adjacent teeth in the setting clamps? Do you back the setting blocks out every blade?
YH
YH, you should have got a piece of steel, which is used to "0" the dials. After it's set all ya should have to do is check it from time to time to make sure the dials still come back to zero.
I found it and have started using It today., Seems to work pretty well. 8)
Thanks, YH
First things first. Happy Birthday YH. I don't use the piece of steel that they sent with the setter I use a blade. I only check my zero about every 20 blades or so. The main reason I do this is because I set after I sharpen and the sharpening will leave a small burr on the inside of the blade.
One trick to the cooks dual tooth setter is get it set up evenly side to side and then just adjust the bolts facing you as you stand in front of it. That way, you aren't always adjusting both sides of the setter.
One disadvantage of the cooks though is that as its set up as an up and down set machine, there are a lot of moving parts. Over time, you will need to replace wear bolts and cams on the set shaft. You don't want to go with grade 5 or 8 bolts though because if you do, you will not wear the bolts but the rollers themselves. At that point, its a simple repair as long as you do some disassembly.
I have seen the cooks machines modified to move the setting anvils and dial indicators together using the same cam and bolt instead of 2, that way when you wear the set bolt, you see the set decrease proportionally with the teeth.
Quote from: NMFP on February 14, 2014, 05:55:12 AM
One disadvantage of the cooks though is that as its set up as an up and down set machine, there are a lot of moving parts. Over time, you will need to replace wear bolts and cams on the set shaft. You don't want to go with grade 5 or 8 bolts though because if you do, you will not wear the bolts but the rollers themselves. At that point, its a simple repair as long as you do some disassembly.
I had problems with the little roll bearing braking, Made some solid rollers as replacments solved that issue.
Yes, good thoughts and ideas but lacking some practical machining and simplicity. Some refinement is all that's needed.
Quote from: backwoods sawyer on February 15, 2014, 01:58:16 PM
Quote from: NMFP on February 14, 2014, 05:55:12 AM
One disadvantage of the cooks though is that as its set up as an up and down set machine, there are a lot of moving parts. Over time, you will need to replace wear bolts and cams on the set shaft. You don't want to go with grade 5 or 8 bolts though because if you do, you will not wear the bolts but the rollers themselves. At that point, its a simple repair as long as you do some disassembly.
I had problems with the little roll bearing braking, Made some solid rollers as replacments solved that issue.
Good tip,
Thanks,
YH
Well the initial verdict is in - The 8 degree home resharpened blades work really well. I had sharpened some WM 9° to the Cats Claw 10° and 8° angles. The resharpened 10s worked well in the softer wood, but I was still not completely happy with my sharpening technique. So I got some excellent advice form both CustomSawyer and Leroy in Kansas as well as the forum feedback, and used that to fine tune a few things on my sharpener and setter.
I got in a load of red elm logs, and they are kind of a pain to saw, not hard like hickory, but tough rubbery wood, just doesn't like to get cut.
Here's a picture of the red elm whack about 2\3 rds gone.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image%7E36.jpg)
And here is a picture of a few lined up while we were sawing.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image%7E35.jpg)
I used the opportunity of tough logs to get a feel for the resharpened bands. I put on one of my resharpened 10° bands, and it did OK but too slow for my tastes. I swapped it for a new 9° WM band and it had about the same effect. I then put on a 4° WM blade and picked up speed to a reasonable clip, and I finished yesterday using only 4's. So I decided sharpen them back to 4° and see how the resharpened ones compared to new, and remembered the Cooks doesn't have a 4° setting... ::). whoops.... I remember asking Cooks about this and they said to drill and tap a new hole for the setting except that in all the excitement that's exactly what I forgot to do. DanG! So I used the 8° setting instead and sharpened up a couple bands and got back to sawing. Wow. What a difference. These bad boys just mowed through the elm. About double the speed of any other band I had used previously. Even my wife, Mrs YellowHammer, made a comment about how fast the bands were sawing.
Although the hook angle maybe had something to do with it, I think it was largely due to me finally having some really sharp and correctly set bands, I mean these were stick in my fingers sharp. I had hoped, but was doubtful, that one my resharpened bands would significantly out perform the factory new bands and they did.
Thanks to all the Forum folks who offered advice, it definitely made a difference.
Thanks again
YH
Hammer, what I did with my cats claw is rite the hook angle with majic marker next to the tapped hole on the back of the machine. I never tried 4's always been content with 6. I may have to tap another hole. I would use a good protractor to be sure of the accurate angle the only sure way is to grind some teeth then try with the protractor. Ten degree bands are more prone to follow the grain, less hook the tooth acts more like a scraper but seems to use more HP. Frank C.
The cat uses several tapped holes and a shoulder bolt to select different hooks, also theirs a clamp to hold it solid. If you want to try something not drilled the clamp will hold any angle within reason. When you find your sweet spot drill and tap. Frank C.
Quote from: bandmiller2 on February 18, 2014, 08:30:36 AM
The cat uses several tapped holes and a shoulder bolt to select different hooks, also theirs a clamp to hold it solid. If you want to try something not drilled the clamp will hold any angle within reason. When you find your sweet spot drill and tap. Frank C.
I like this technique. I was struggling with how to figure out where to drill and tap the hole. I was thinking of drilling both a 6° and a 4°, but I've never used a 6° band so have no idea how it saws.
One thing I've already noticed is that when I'm sawing hard through knots, and I know I'm about to wave, the Cats Claw bands just power on through, staying very flat. I still haven't figured out why they seem to resist wave better than even my new WM bands, but these definitely saw flatter, even though they are just WM bands sharpened to a different hook and gullet.
I guess I need to do a little more homework.
Thanks for the tips,
YH
Not all the time, but most times a resharp blade will cut better. I think it's because a resharp blade the top of the tooth is square to the blade. :)
We all do things a little different like set first or last. just find the sweet spot that works for you is all you can do ;D good luck 8) 8)