A new experience

[Tom]

That's neat, but I don't understand the "science".   It looks like all of the buttressed roots were trimmed off and the tree was left standing on a pencil-point that, somehow, allowed it to fall in the direction that they wanted.  How did they accomplish that?  What does the stump look like?

[jim king]

Tom:
They take a guess as to which side of the tree is heavier and where the vines are pulling and hope for the best.  They are not in control of where it falls.  Luck is important but they are quick on thier feet and that is what accounts for not many ever being hurt.  They will not wear helmuts or any saftey gear.

[jim king]

I just got this note from China.

I can't access the video because it has to link with youtube first, as i said, china won't allow access to youtube

[LOGDOG]

.....And that my friend is why I still live in America.  ;) It amazes me how many countries there are in this day and age that sensor what information the people are allowed to have.

Great pictures and video above. It's just like being there. 

[isawlogs]

 
  Keep the pics and videos coming , I enjoye this thread alot. You have a way with words and pics too. Thanks Jim.

[Sprucegum]

I am not allowed to watch U-tube here at work either  : 

In that last picture it looks like a hollow log? Is that a common problem with those trees?

[jim king]

In that last picture it looks like a hollow log? Is that a common problem with those trees?

There are many species here that will have the first log hollow but from there thay are healthy.  As most species mature and fall over under 50 years they are old and start heart rot at 30 years or so.  The vast majority are clear with no defects for 60 feet or more if harvested when they have no more than 36 inches DBH.

[jim king]

I was finally able to upload a short video of the process of sawing the logs into cants in the jungle for flooring.  After the cants are cut they are carried out on the backs of the people to the nearest river and brought to town to be resawn , kiln dried and cut to size for flooring blanks ready to be sent to China for final molding.  Using this method in the jungle the tree will produce at least 30% more than pulling out logs and sawing in a mill.  This holds true on cants but if boards are sawn with the chainsaw the yield is less than a mill.

The good thing about this also is that the cost is fixed for the wood put on the beach as the people are paid by the BF produced.  No variables such as motor problems or flat tires on a skidder in the jungle.  The people make a very good living also with a family going from $20 a month to $3,000 or more per month.  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53J5ljs4jg0

[GAmillworker]

Jim

My name is Daniel.  Its been about 10 years since I was down there.  Yes it was a missionary trip.  We built a church two days boat trip and one day in smaller canoe out of Iquitos.  Your videos reminded me of the skilled chainsaw men and women.  They are really something. They freehand cut every 4x4, 2x4, 2x8 for the 20x40 church building we built.  It was somthing different framing with mahogony.

Would love to see a mill down there.

[jim king]

GAmillworker :
Daniel;

The video camera is up river for a few days but I will take some video of a couple of mills when it gets back.  In a couple of weeks I will also have some video of an assembly of the five villages that we are working with approving the final transfer of a piece of land to us and involving thier land in the project.  We are sending down 50 gallons of sugar cane liquer and Coca Cola and cookies and candy for 800 people.  This is kind of like the Forestry forum where everything eventually turns to the subject of food, here everything eventually turns into a party.

[jim king]

I got some more feed back from China this morning and it is looking like it will all move forward with patience.  What is interesting is that the species they are selecting below do not include the species most exported from here to China , number 15 and 17.   The lady in China that I am working with knows nothing about wood but she is picking it up very fast and going forward.

The market for furniture there looks for the heaviest hardest woods that exist.  They are producing reproduction furniture of centuries ago and like species that last eternally.  That group it appears think long term in everything.  Apparently they export the cheap stuff and the market there for the well to do is very high end.

They are very nervous about quality as they have been recieving wood from Brazil and other parts that has not been graded well and a high percentage of defect.  The supply from Malaysia and other Pacific sites is slowing.  I would think there is a market in China for some of the until now unmarketed species from North America if they are heavy and hard.  I don`t know what would fit into that category.

The web site is being finalized and should be up soon.

I have been told that the Chinese do not have weekends but the most work 7 days a week.  I am not sure if that is only the head dogs or the factory people also.

Below is what I got this morning by email and phone calls on Skype all night long.  She is convinced that she is on to something very good.  As mentioned they like Red Sandlewood from India and Bloodwood from here is a dead ringer for that.  It appears they are into wood that has a smell to it so we are now preparing samples of woods we have here that smell.  One smells like camphour, another like licorice and another like cinnamen.  And they have a strong smell in that you can smell it for a block when sawing a log.  They belive that the wood that smells cleans the home of spirits and makes for a generally healthy home. which is much the same as South America.

The preferred method of payment for them is an irrevocable revolving Letter of Credit with a 50% cash advance of the sale price.  That is surprising .

I have met with 2 potential buyers - furniture maker on last friday & flooring maker today sunday.  Both are very positive about our products.

The furniture maker is interested in numbers 1,2,9 & 10

The flooring maker is interested in 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14 & 16

Basically, all samples are appreciated here.

The one today, the flooring company, will set out a specification for us, & potentially place order for 4 containers (1 specy per container) if the price is right.

I'll meet with another furniture maker tomorrow, monday & another floor maker sometime next week.

If I'm right, the name for the most expensive Indian timber is called Red Sandalwood Lobular India.

[jim king]

The next step in putting the project together went well.  Below are some photos of the trip down to the area where we have the land and of the community meeting approving the village to participate in the project.  We needed a 80% approval of the residents as compared to the population count and we got it.
 
Some other villages showed up and want to be included also.  We will start going from village to village next month to get them in order.  It looks like we will able to put to gether a 200,000 acre project of which our 33,000 acres will be the starting point.

I have some video and will try to upload two or three.

The first photo is of the luxery cruiser which is the local version of a Greyhound bus. River style.  I think next time they will start using a speed boat.  I have spent hundreds of hours on these and a cooler of cold beer is never enough to keep you numb until you get where you are going.  Many times this is the only way you can travel as speed boats cannot carry enough fuel to get to the destination and back.

This is / was the engine on the first boat and it was necessary to hijack another one midstream



I have been here too long to know what is interesting .  Here they took photos of a new rice crop and you can see the latest deposit of fresh river silt which is very rich soil.

This is the town meeting where about 550 people in all showed up to sign the village articles approving thier participation.  This will now bring them new schools, more medical centers, water wells etc. etc.

These are the community leaders holding the meeting.

As there was not enough room inside for everyone the meeting moved outside for the signing of the people.

This fellow has worked for me for many years and has been put back to work now that I have decided to chase the Chinese carrot.  When I first met him he was the physcologist for the education department.  Since then over the years he has picked up on everything from the legal side to handeling the people and government officials  and will be the future owner of the portion of the company that is not sold to the Chinese along with my other original employees.  They will continue in control and be the management.

[jim king]

Finally got some video uploaded.  It takes several hours for each one.

This is of the trip down river to the village meeting.  I now have to learn how to edit.  The video when ending was of a new outboard .  When you see one like this you can be quite sure it is for the cocaine movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evaShIA3dz8&feature=related

This is part of the village meeting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CQtQKYiJAA&feature=related

I like this one the best.  It is after the meeting when everyone is relaxed.  You can see the attitude of the people.  It is quite impressive when you see what they have.  They do not know they are poor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnsoS-oyR-o

[Norm]

Thanks Jim, I appreciate seeing how folks live in your area of the world.

[jim king]

Here is a typical bit of back and forth on the China project.  It is a learning process for both sides.  Before I die I am going to catch this carrot if it in it`s self doesn`t get me..  I did not do to well on the quote , from her and unquote from me but I dont know how to get it better.  Hope it is understandable.

Hi Jim,

It's a pleasure talking to you on skype.  After 3 weeks in China, certain confusions have been cleared & it's time to let you know what I have learnt about the Chinese market, so we can work out our plan of attack.

Two major categories Chinese use are 'red timber' or 'white timber'.  I am assuming they use the term red timber for the visible parts of flooring , furniture etc. and white timber for fill wood that is not visible.  Similar terms are dsed for the two qualities world wide.

Historically, Chinese like to use rosewood for furniture because of its color (red) & smell, so, they're expensive.

I really don`t think they are getting Rosewood but are getting something sold as Rosewood with the exception of the purple Indian Rosewood.

No. 1 timber for China - Rosewood (also called purple sandalwood), Dalbergia species (or equivalent to African Ppilionaceae species).  It has clear & unique pattern, strong good sandalwood smell, longer you use, better the color, smoother the touch.  It can resist termites & erosion.  So, majority of antiques used these species.

It is quite sure that antiques were made of Rosewood at one time.  We have many woods that would fall into this category of  very very hard wood that developes a patina look as it ages over the years.

The 2nd tier is Redwood, or Yellow sandalwood (don't ask me why it's called red & yellow...), Guibourtia species, same quality as rosewood but less sandalwood fragrance, more acidic smell.

The 3rd tier is South American Chicken wing, Millettia species because of their pattern.  It does not have the good smell of the above but it's quite common over there.  The one you listed, but no photos or samples, Mari mari (Vatairea guianense) is called 'yellow chicken wing' in China.
I am surprised about them importing Mari Mari.  It is not a hard dense wood and has a bitter horrible taste to the dust when working with it.  We have a lot of it but Yellow heart is a much better choice for furniture or cabinets.

Pink frame (Rinorea racemosa) will be selling well here because its related species, Snakewood (Piratinea Quianensis) is selling expensive in China, looking at over RMB20,000 (Chinese dollar, or called 'yuan') equals to USD3,000.  
Pink Flame is one of the most expensive woods in the world.  The only other known pink wood is Pink Ivory from southern African countries and it is not color stable and turns a light brown in a couple of years when exposed to sunshine.

Other than the above, Chinese are selling the followings from South America:
•   Andira inermis (Chinese called red chicken wing)
•   Dicorynia guianensis (Chinese called South Amercian teak)
•   Humiria floribunda (Chinese called walnut cream)
•   Guaiacumofficimale?? (I think it's sort of mixed up in spanish) Palo santo (Chinese called green sandalwood)

The above four woods I am not familiar with.

So, I have roughly identified 75% of our products, out of that 17 semi-polished samples, in Chinese 'common names'.

Since the top quality rosewood's supply has run out domestically, Chinese have been buying a lot from Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, PNG, Africa, Argentina, Surinam & Brazil.  Chinese know more about the Asian species than African, South American species because buying from outside Asia only started around 2-3 years ago.  In many occasions, South American timber is being sold as 'assorted timber' because they cannot identify the species, so prices are low as to test the market.

Chinese are still selling 90% in logs, no matter which country of origin, generally without the bark because it will attract repeated fumigation fees & 30 days custom detention period.

It is not legal to ship out logs from Peru or sawn timber over 15 cm in thickness.

I was told that even though fumigation is done in country of origin, it will mandatory be done again in China.  So custom clearance requires 15 days in general.  The major reason why buying logs are:
•   Production control - minimise waste

Logs take 100% more shipping volume than sawn lumber and the weight of wet wood is four to ten times the weight of kiln dried wood.

•   Cut to shape for furniture
•   Convert waste to joins or other products
•   May mix & match with other inferior timber (i.e. cheating customers, use quality timber to cover inferior one but still sell the furniture as expensive timber product)
•   Speculation - Chinese stake every, any raw material so to sell at higher price in future

When provide quotation to customers, followings are required:
•   Common name & scientific name
•   Moisture content, generally around 12% for rosewood
•   Air-dry density

They are not keen on kiln dried timber because they think the timber will dry up or crack during shipping anyway, so save the cost for kiln dried.

.[/quote]Wood is kiln dried so it does not crack , cup, bow or twist.  Plus it kills any insect infestation in low quality white woods.  Selling wood that is not kiln dried is asking for trouble.  The Chinese started here by exporting wet wood and had tremendous problems and are now only shipping kiln dried surfaced four sides product.

But it also works in our favour if we charge by tons for logs selling.  They are all prepared for the cracks but of course we will have better name & sales if our timber's crack is minimum.

Selling price differs with great variance.  Chinese are selling locally RMB4,000 (USD600) per ton or cbm for red sandalwood (Dalmata, Brazilian Cherry).  

Dalmata has never been exported to China.  I am the only person that has ever exported it or for that matter worked with it at all.  Brazilian Cherry is not a worth while wood to work with as 50% of the logs is white sap wood.  To much waste to be profitable for any sawmill.  Best to stay away from it.

One advertisement I saw was USD920 per ton C&F China, mimimum order 26 tons.  But for Burmese redwood species, they are selling RMB5,000 - 9,000 (USD700 - 1,300), Laos species are being sold at RMB12,000 - 20,000 (USD1,700 - 3,000).

Two ways of measurement being used in selling timber in China - tons or cubic meters (CBM).  I worked out pretty much the same in terms of weight or measurement.  If I use the above figures USD920 x 26 tons = USD23,920 which includes the container fee.  If I use the figures based on FOB USD1,200 per cbm x 18 cbm per container, it will be USD21,600 plus container fee, generally about USD2,000.  Therefore, if cost for production is around USD8,000, that means gross profit per container is around USD12,000.  Hopefully we can buy 4 tractors after 2 weeks x 4 containers' loading.

I will lay these costs and volumes out for you on another page but a container will hold 25% to 35% of the volume in logs as it does in kiln dried surfaced lumber..

For shipping, shipping company charges either by measurement or by weight, whichever is greater.  Jim may know about the following terms but I still put it for David:
•   FOB - Free on Board (price for goods only) / C & F - Cost & Freight (goods & shipping) / C I F - Cost, Insurance & Freight (goods, insurance & shipping)
•   Full container loading (FCL) means whole container, generally load approximately 26 tons or 18 cbm
•   Less container loading (LCL) means you share container spaces with other shipper
•   CY to CY means container port to port, even door to door delivery
•   Bill of Lading means the documents issued by shipping company evidencing the cargo is on board - it shows the consigner, consignee & shipment details - key document for collecting money

[/quote]

, please find out the shipping cost, if you can, from Iquitos to China via Houston.  I found that Yaco Puma Cargo ship can do shipping from Iquitos to Houston Texas regularly, but I couldn't find out how often & how much, can you find out for me please?  

The Yaca Puma leaves here every six weeks.

Also, generally, for FCL, NOBODY, including shipping company, will be allowed to cut the lock for repack (change container) once it's loaded from the original port.  Locks can only be cut by consigner or consignee, whoever holds the Bill Lading, in light of safety, & prevention of damage, theft or loss.  

We can reload the container to a container going to China in Houston if the containers do not leave the restricted area.

I suggest to establish our company in Hong Kong because it's internationally viable in organising Letter of Credit (L/C) especially when dealing with customers.  It is also an offshore settlement centre for RMB & foreign currency.  It will provide convenience in case clients want to do RMB instead of foreign currency like USD.  For David's information, L/C generally involves 4 parties - Consigner, Issuing Bank, Consignee, Advising Bank.  In our case, we can receive L/C from china, then I'll do back-to-back L/C to Iquitos so you may use my back-to-back L/C as security to borrow money from Peruvian bank for your operational cost.  This is worldwide common practice.  Banks in Peru do not anymore borrow money against Letters of Credit.

For short term plan, I suggest that we do some quick log sales first so to have money for tractors & factory establishment.  No log sales are possible. Be prepared that our profit margin will be low because of paying commissions to those 'agents' or 'brokers', we may also have to sell in a discounted price so to penetrate the market.  Furthermore, to prevent our competitors' attack, by corrupting the customs to detain our goods, we need to have alliance in Chinese customs to safeguard our interest, that means, certain off record 'entertainment money' will need to be spent.  But I'm prepared to use the initial earning for tractors & factory establishment.

In medium term plan, hopefully in few months time, we can have our nice range of flooring & furniture timber ready for April's Canton Fair promotion.  By that time, we will be production capacity ready to widely expand our direct sales & distribution network without paying too much commission or discount.

In 24 months time, once we have auditable sales record & land ownership certificates (& may add timber concession contracts), we can do IPO in Hong Kong.  By that time, we can ask for venture capital to fund the float.  I've got an underwriter that will assist in full spectrum.  For your information, generally, it costs 2 billion HKD to buy a 'shell' for public listing, & we can do it at about 1 million USD.  I also have access to JP Morgan's fund but I'll only consider when our production is on track

.

I believe the above has covered the majority, now it's your turn, Jim, to let me know your thought.

Cheers,
Polly

[jim king]

Well it has been a long two weeks since I started this about our Chinese website.  We still do not have it done but are within sight.  We are not able to publish it outside of China so it will only be in Chinese but I will get a copy and can publish some of the more interesting pages here.

It appears we will have the orders for the next few years complete at the end of the month.  They are asking for two 40 foot containers daily and they are issuing revolving letters of credit for every three months with 50% cash in advance and the L/C is payable when the wood leaves on the ship from Peru.

Since this thread started the project has morphed into another phase.  We have put together thru contracts 30 Indian and Mixed blood villages that have about 700,000 plus hectacres with titles and plus our land we are going to try and set up the largest carbon sequestration program in the world and sell the carbon on the European Carbon Exchange.  This will take up to five years to get done and approved and the study and approvals will cost several million dollars which will be financed by the end buyers of the credits once we have the preliminary approval of which we now have about 40 pounds of documentation to back up what we are saying , so that looks reasonable.

The Europeans are now making mandatory carbon taxes to airlines and other major polluters so that market is developing.  I dont believe in the carbon thing but if someone is willing to pay for it why not sell to them.  It took over a month to have the high leaders travel to the villages involved for this initial town meetings as per law to advise the people of the project and get thier written consent.

This will bring in they say billions of dollars to the area which we will split with the communities over the next 25 years and also put each community to work cutting cants on a sustainable basis providing income to several thousand people.  On the 31st we have 91 community leaders coming to town for the final meeting to organize this and will have as witnesses to the whole thing the Police General, the Bishop and  the President of this region of Peru, the head of the Natural Nesources Dept . and others .  We are buying hammocks and mosquito nets for each person so they can stay at the lodge outside of town where we will hold the two day meeting.  We have to feed them , keep them in line etc. so the meeting is a project in its self.

Here is the draft of the preamble to the final contract of 40 plus pages.  We now have our own mapping dept to get the region we are working with in order.  Still chasing the carrot.  Maybe we win , maybe we lose but keeping busy.

Amazon (Forest) Community Sustainable Forest Conservation Project

Preamble:

This agreement has been established for the impoverished forest communities of the Upper Amazon because you cannot tell a hungry mouth or an empty belly not to cut down a tree or kill a wild animal.

More ambitious projects, whether they involve the conservation of biodiversity, or the stopping of illegal logging and drug production cannot be realized until the extreme poverty of these forest communities is addressed.

The major areas in which poverty can be reduced are through economic growth based on respectable work and social inclusion. This in turn will strengthen democratic governance and social stability, and allow for better access to basic social services and  infrastructure.

The forest communities want an extension of their community lands so they can plan for their future and the future of their grandchildren in a sustainable commercial manner.  Amazon Holdings does not want their lands. What is more, the company will assist the forest community in securing those extra lands that are rightfully theirs. This process will not happen quickly. It will take time.

The forest communities had a meeting with their elected Federation Leaders and are aware that this not a quick fix to their problems. Votes were taken and the forests communities have given their approval to their Federation to enter in to a long-term Cooperation agreement with Amazon Holding Limited.

The forest communities will be involved in the planning of the Project Development Document. Their needs and concerns will be a major part of the consultation process and planning.

The forest communities will be active participants in a sustainable forest management plan which includes environmental services to ensure that it become commercially and financially viable. They will share in the financial rewards this will bring and they will become Stewarts and Custodians of their forests as set out under the guidelines of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)
Amazon Holdings Limited has been established in Hong Kong for the express purpose of having direct access to Asian financial institutions, banks, funds mangers, stock exchange, and carbon trading centres and in particularly the booming China market. In addition, Hong Kong people are highly educated and are bi-lingual in (English and Chinese); this is a major advantage when dealing with an international commodity throughout the commercial world. Hong Kong is a major trading centre of Asia and trades daily between the east and western countries around the world.

Hong Kong is also an ideal centre from which to raise capital to facilitate major projects for developments or to facilitate the trading of environmental services.  What is more the regionally near neighbours  New Zealand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Taiwan, y China in addition to Hong Kong itself have all either opened or will be opening emissions trading centers in the near future.

Amazon Holdings has the legal and financial reasonability for the Project and will bring highly skilled consultants together locally and from all over the world for facilitating sustainable forest management and the production and marketing of forestry products including environmental services.

Amazon Holding respect the rights and practices of Indigenous and Forest Communities under the  United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP)  and all other human rights instruments including that of  non-discrimination against women and children and indigenous peoples. The Project will endeavour to operate in recognition of these rights and practices.

The people of the forest communities, living as they do amongst one of most biologically diverse and resource-rich regions on the planet, have the right as human beings to be  socially and economically  included in  the booming economic growth that Peru is experiencing. This Project allows them to fulfil that right with the community's profits from these projects to be spent within the communities themselves as an integrated program of infrastructure development to reduce poverty and improve education, communication, health care, river transport and social and community services. It grants them the opportunity to develop their own environmental resources, in partnership with the private sector as is contemplated in the Law No.27037, Law for the Promotion of Investment in the Amazon, without being subjected to harassment or exploitation from Non-Government Officers (NGOs) and intermediaries.

The training element of the Project will be of the utmost importance. It brings an element of gender equality to the Project, to ensure that men and women both, as well as disadvantaged and landless inhabitants, will benefit from the Project. Keeping the people on their ancestral lands by giving them an alternative source of sustainable income also removes the need for them to migrate to urban centres already struggling to provide the necessary infrastructure for ballooning populations, given their under-funded municipal resources.

The Communities understand that this capacity building is required, given their long-term commitment to the Project. What is more, the Community understands that accountancy and transparency are very important ingredients to success, and as such, the Project will be annually audited by an internationally recognised entity. What is more, each Community will present a business plan yearly as to how they are going to invest their income for the betterment of their Community; this plan must be complied with and shall be part of that Annual Audit.

Working in unison between the private sector and a diverse range of communities, the Project will permit the decentralisation of industries and create jobs through the formation of a new infrastructure that is more efficient, more cost-effective, and more insulated against internal and external corruption.

Put simply, this development represents the largest and most ambitious project of its type and the premier example of forest management and carbon sequestration in the tropical world and will allow every child, woman and man of the Communities involved to prosper and participate in the burgeoning economic growth the rest of Peru is experiencing and eliminate the need for people to produce cocaine or operate at the margin of the law to merely subsist in what is one of the most resource rich regions in the world.

[doctorb]

Jim-  a galant effort. 

[Left Coast Chris]

Jim,  thanks so much for your efforts here.  Very interesting.  In the 80's I worked for a sawmill on the Alaskan panhandle that sold cants of spruce and hemlock to the Japanese for instruments.  The marketing part was interesting then as it is very interesting in your working with China.

[Sprucegum]

My hat is off to you Jim, you are doing a great work!

[jim king]

Yesterday we took another step to being the largest carbon sequestration / sustainable forestry project in the tropical world .  We brought to town the directors of over thirty villages for the final signing ceramony in the Govoners office auditorium.

This was after weeks of traveling by river by our people explaining the program to the communities in public assemblies in each community and each taking a vote and signing on to the project giving power of signature to the regional representative.  A long legal process.

After the meeting the Govenment representative came to the house for a bit of rum and ask if we would be interested in taking over one third of Peru and putting it in the program.  That sounds like a big bite but today we are going to seriously discuss it over coffee to try to see how and if it could be done.

We finally got a general map of the region finished which is below after months of work.  The next step will be the mapping of the dozens of villages in this 3,000,000 hectare square.  Most villages here are not mapped yet even tho the local people know and are in agreement as to what tree or river is the border with thier neighbors.  The Amazon is just starting to be mapped and we will take responsibility for that in the project working with the government mapping dept.  What is happening is that we are moving government out of the equation of developement and initiating a system of work between communities and private enterprise which has never been done here.

We did have one small problem in that a Non Profit Organization from the US has been collecting millions of dollars from corporate donars for supposedly protecting a large reserve in this area and using the money for the advancement of the local communities.  As with the majority of these do gooder groups they simply steal the money and the communities sent them out of the meeting when they starting making a fuss.  I suppose I will be sued by them in the next few days for shutting off thier money faucett but that wont be a problem.  One more step forward.

If I could only live another 500 years I might see this project finished.



This is the 3,000,000 hectaria area we are now working in and the first map ever of the area.

 
I put on a red shirt my jeans as I thought Tom would have enjoyed this.


Part of the group at the assembly.


The official signing.

[jim king]

I spent Monday and yesterday in Lima meeting with some government people about the project we are trying to get off the ground.

Here are some photos of Lima that might surprise some.  It is a booming city with construction everywhere.  Gas costs $6.75 US a gallon there.  There are bad parts of town also that one would think of a developing country.

We took the government people to lunch at Tony Romas and I stuffed myself on ribs.  Everywhere you look are companies from Japan , Korea and China but I did not see one American company except Tony Romas, McDonalds , Dunkin Donuts and KFC.  Even the Hotel we stayed in was Chinese.  Sad.

[jim king]

Well the project is dead.  After jumping thru hoops and getting everything signed and sealed the Australian person got home to Australia with all in order to find that his enemy here had taken photos of him with his live in blanket with ears and sent them to his Chinese wife.

That did not go over to well with the wife.  He is now confined to Australia and if he went to China her family  would probably send him back as a capon.

We now have this monster project up and ready and dead in the water.  Quite an embarassing situation for us who put it together.  I guess it is time to start emailing Chinese investment bankers to see if anyone would like to take it forward.

[Kansas]

If its a lucrative business proposal could be the wife will cool down in a few weeks. More than once money makes a wife look past a transgression.

[isawlogs]

 That really sucks.....   :-\