home food production (permaculture)

[LOGDOG]

Bumping this thread ....

Has anyone made progress with their intended aquaponics set ups? I think my wife and I are going to gear up for this. We already have a large, 30 foot deep pond loaded with thousands of Florida Large Mouth Bass and Hybrid Brim/Bluegills, lots of room, large well, etc... also probably going to add meat goats, sheep and chickens to the overall mix. We're interested in taking care of our own consumption needs and selling the excess on a continuous basis. I'm probably going to meet with the LSU Ag Center to get input from them on setting up the overall layout.

[r.man]

Do the goats etc mind treading water?

[SPIKER]

Do the goats etc mind treading water?

Dem goats eat EVERYTHING from the posts above the Bream & bass might be in trouble if the cant out swim em!  :  the chickens are much for swimming tho so they might not be muck to worry bout ;)

M

[LOGDOG]

There's a comedian in every bunch.......

[Leigh Family Farm]

LOGDOG, I haven't built my system as I still rent my place and don't have the room. If you are thinking of using your 30ft. deep pond as the fish tank, I would not do that IMHO. There is too much of an ecosystem already in your pond already and by the shear size of the pond you might not have enough ammonia water to get good bacteria growth in your grow beds.  Start smaller until you get the hang of how an aquaponics system works. The mix of ammonia fish water and amount of grow material in your beds is very important to having a healthy system.

I would start with a 100-200 gallon fish tank, a 100 gallon sump tank, and 200-400 gallon grow beds. Look up SHIFT PIST (Steady Height in Fish Tank, Pump In Sump Tank) and PVC auto bell siphons. This size of a system will cost about $500-$1000 to build and will yield enough veggies for your family plus some tasty fish every few weeks. Also, the space required is about 6' x 18' or a 10'x20' greenhouse you can buy from the store. 

...My first question is directed toward the scale of these operations.  If they can be economically run at home and have such high production of fish and vegetables, why hasn't this been done on a much larger scale?

Many of the major cities are looking into this exact idea. Right now the issue is getting funding for a large scale operation and having tangible results to keep investors happy. Also, with large scale operations, the energy consumption of the operation is pretty large (pumps, filters, grow lamps, etc.). Popular Mechanics or Popular Science did an article on this a while back.

My second question would be about infection or disease, either of the fish or the plants.

Disease can be very debilitating to an aquaponics system. Small systems  can recover quickly because you can artificially add ammonia to the fish tank if your fish die. Large systems its not so easy.

[LOGDOG]

Thanks for the update and input kilgrosh. I briefly considered the idea of pulling water out of the pond to circulate through the greenhouse and flood and drain tables, but as I thought about it... I saw algae being one of the problems. Part of the reason a person wants to go hydroponic or aquaponic is because it allows you to control your environment. Introducing the pond water would introduce all kinds of wildcards into the mix. But it is a good place to source fish from for personal consumption. Even though I bought every fish in that pond, I'm not sure the law allows you to sell what are considered game fish for consumption ... catfish being an exception. Seems there's a hang up there that I've heard discussed ....maybe even here. I did think about sinking some coiled tubing in the bottom of the 30' deep pond though for acting as a chiller in the summer months and keep temps down in the fish tanks. I have a nice thermocline that starts at about 6' below the surface of that pond. First 6' will be 85/90 in the summer. Below that, it's about 70 tops. A person may find out that a chiller for your tanks would cost about the same to run as a pump to circulate the water through the tubing in the pond.

Do you recall which issue of Popular Science it was that discussed the economics of Aquaponics?

[Leigh Family Farm]

Here is one article I found: http://www.popsci.com/cliff-kuang/article/2008-09/farming-sky

And another from the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/18/garden/18aqua.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[LOGDOG]

Lots of info on YouTube as well. Tillapia really seem to be a popular fish to use in these systems. I've eaten them. They're ok ... becoming very popular in stores and restaurants too. I'd like to try some tanks filled with freshwater shrimp and see how they work. I see they're using shrimp in the systems over in Asia.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Put the shrimp in with the fish. They will keep the bottom of the tank cleaner, so I'm told.

[Leigh Family Farm]

Put the shrimp in with the fish. They will keep the bottom of the tank cleaner, so I'm told.

This does work, but crawfish work better and tend to stay away from the fish by staying on the bottoms of the tank. They will also eat some of the fish byproducts but not all of it.

[LOGDOG]

Only thing is ... fish love to eat shrimp and crawfish!  I did think about the crawfish.... you know... you could have a wire mesh grate half way down the water depth that separates the fish from the crawfish/shrimp ... maybe.... ?

[JuniperBoss]

Never done it but always want too.

[Leigh Family Farm]

Only thing is ... fish love to eat shrimp and crawfish!  I did think about the crawfish.... you know... you could have a wire mesh grate half way down the water depth that separates the fish from the crawfish/shrimp ... maybe.... ?

The grate could work but might make it difficult to clean out the tank. Tilapia aren't big enough to eat crawfish and if you are feeding them regularly, they won't try to eat the crawfish.

[LOGDOG]

You could make the grates in panels so they just drop in and out to clean the bottom of the tank. Something about shrimp or crawfish raised on a diet of feces that's not appealing. However, if you had your shrimp or crawfish in a separate tank, you could easily feed them the fish carcasses after you fillet them. They'd strip them bare, and convert them into fertilizer. Really, when you start thinking about systems like this, it's very clear that most everything that comes from the process can be used to contribute to the process. The challenge that I see is keeping your overhead low when it comes to doing this on a large scale. It costs a lot of money to cover an acre of land in greenhouses. Quite an investment. I see there's grant money out there from the USDA and NRCS for high tunnel greenhouses. That may help with the initial investment if you don't mind being in the Government's pocket for a while. Usually, that's something I'd try to avoid if possible.

Google "how big do Tillapia get?" ... you might be surprised. Plenty big to eat crawfish. Even my bluegills eat crawfish. But I like the idea of a separate tank.