Need To Start A New Thread

[DanG]

 :D I guess I got lucky when I ordered the cheapo auto helmet from Harbor Freight. They were out of'em! : I'm still using the old fashioned kind.  I find that I can see the work piece a little, if I give my eyes a couple of seconds to adjust after lowering the helmet. This works for me when welding in bright sunlight, or with a 500w halogen worklight.

[etat]

If welding thin angle or sheet metal using a piece of copper clamped to the backside will help prevent burning through and help pull the heat away from the piece.  I don't like to use brass because it will give off toxic fumes. If there were an occasion I was joining pieces of pipe or tubing end to end you need full penetration for strength.  One way to do this is to make an insert, If I have nothing of the right size for the insert I take a small section of the same size tubing or pipe I'm welding together, and cut  a split in it length ways.  Then take a hammer or vise and close the section back together.  By doing this you can make the diameter of the 'insert' smaller.  Get it to where it will fit inside the sections of pipe tightly and when you push the two sections together get them ready to weld by clamping them in a section of angle iron. Leave about an 1/8 inch gap where the two pieces join.  You may want to tack it in a couple of places, remove the clamps and angle, grind the tacks down, and shift the piece around so you can re clamp the angle and tack again.  This way when you do weld the gap will allow you full penetration to the back up insert.  You can also do something like this when joining angle or plate, end to end, clamp the pieces and leave a small gap that will allow the weld to penetrate through.  Often on such angle or plate when I turn the piece over I will take a grinder and grind through the joint from the backside until I have solid weld with no slag or pits.  If it is large pieces I sometimes use an air gouger to cut back down to the weld Then I will fill this back up with weld.  I almost always weld angle or channel iron on the inside first after I get it tacked all the way around.  Welding on the inside first will allow you to grind off the tacks on the back side and cut a groove into the joint with the grinder to help achieve full penetration there, again making a much stronger joint.  

[etat]

As said earrlier warp and movement of the metal is a problem when adjoining pieces.  When doing so I constantly keep checking the piece I'm working on.  Often coaxing it with a shop hammer is enough if you do it before the piece cools off.  

[D._Frederick]

Cktate,
What do you recommend when you need to butt weld heavier material like 1/2 plate or 3/8 angle, they use to say to grind a bevel? What do you do if you are limited with only 180 - 200amps? It was mentioned about using a soft rod to start then a harder rod to finish, any comments.

Thanks for going into detail, you have added a lot of knowledge about welding.

[etat]

grinding a bevel on each piece is still very much valid for maximum penetration and strength.  Especially on thicker pieces with a smaller welder.  Before I bought a larger welder I would tack the pieces together and use smaller diameter rods.  I'd also run a narrower bead, chip the slag, wire brush, and keep doing this running multiple beads until getting the weld filled in or built up sufficiently. You can weave the bead some but if you try building up too much all at one time weaving you can wind up depositing some of the slag into the weld as you are weaving, thus weakening the weld.  Also this builds up a LOT of heat quickly and will make the piece want to pull and warp.  I never was really any good welding with 7018 rods on an ac welder, even though you can get them in ac.  On strictly an AC welder I would stick with a 6011 1/8 inch rod. I'd use this for both tacking, and welding.  It has been my experience that a 6011 rod makes a good strong weld and gets a little better penetration than a 6013, but the slag is harder to chip off and the weld is a little harder to clean.  Thourly chipping and cleaning each weld before continuing to build up is EXTREMELY important to the strength of the weld, as a good fit up to the pieces being welded.  If the pieces were cut with a torch it is important to clean up the cut with a grinder, don't just stick em together and start welding.  I always try to weld something so that if it breaks or twists it will be elsewhere on the piece than where I welded.  For an example, and I AM NOT claiming to be this good.  Look at race cars.  They are made mostly out of tubing, bent and welded together.  These welds must be strong enough that in a crash the welds MUST not fail.  The car may fold up, pieces may fly off of it, but the welds MUST NOT fail.  The welds and joints must be as strong as the tubing itself.  These cars are actually heliarc or tig welded.  However, even with a small welder and smaller rods you can achieve similar results, it will just be a lot more work doing everything properly, but it CAN be done.

[Duane_Moore]

  well  the onions's I use are yellow onions from walmart...this trick came from a sheet metal man in Mo. for sheet stainless. as for welding temp I use tempstick, don't know if you like this or not, when heating connecting rods and wrist pins, I heat them in Oil in an electric skillet, to the temp I need them tempstick them,  this brodens the temp to all the metal,and does not create hot spots, and the A/I cooling workes well, just put some in a thermos and dip for cold, Use (stanley) thermos, no pund intended. Have a 12X36 lathe for bushings, for exact fit, but your cutting will work good for farm projects, also a good set of mic. are a must. by the way pop can are .0004 thick for shims.this works for shiming up spockets, and hubs, and cutting Key ways beats welding, only on blower motors use Two cuts, as the crankshaft will turn the hub out inside, also splinning as in axel or P.T.O. seams to stop the spinning of shafts. this is a very inexpensive process, as you can buy P.T.O. shimes about anywhere., well enough,  shut up Duane

[etat]

I see, uh huh, said the blind man, no pun intended, ya been holdin out on us.  Betcha lots of other folks got neat home brewed tricks too.  A lath huh, now I sure wouldn't mindin having one of them.  For cutting thin sheet stock mild steel an Irwin Metal Star Blade will cut it like butter.  And they'll last longer than you think.  I bought a bunch off of ebay once for 6 bucks apiece but they are a lot higher new.  Now ya better wear a long sleeve and full face shield but they will fit in a regular skillsaw, I use a worm drive saw.  I have cut up to 1/4 inch plate with em but you have to take your time.  Every once in a while stop and squirt em with wd40 or similar.  Used to use em to cut angle before I got a band saw and a cut off saw.  I don't like a cutoff saw, to me they're just not all they're cracked up to be. Or maybe I'm using the wrong blade or something.  Course it'd be a lot better to have a plasma torch up yer sleeve, just ain't ever convinced the wife how important that would be to have around.  I'll fool her one of these days, maybe.  Lath, huh, you old dog you. 8) 8) 8)

[jwood]

 hey fla deadhead you ever think about taking your glasses off an using a cheater lens in the helmet..there is still glare from behind if you are outside with sun behind or bright lights inside but i seem to see better with out specs..
 on the subject of cast iron when welding things like manifolds i find it easier to bolt them to a piece of flat plate this keeps manifold from warping ,make small welds and peen the weld to relieve stress.also as mentioned by ck at the end of each weld hesitate and move rod back into the weld puddle.on thin cast manifolds and pump housings i dont preheat just weld peen and put in a lime box which slows cooling..on heavy pieces preheat, weld ,peen an put in lime box if it'll fit..
 on the electronic helmets i've used the solar lens and the battery powered lens ..i like solar they are thinner and my cheater fits better..jackson makes one that costs $120  also
homedepot sells the lincoln which is the same as jackson around the same price...the solar is sold at welding supply houses

[Duane_Moore]

 :PCK. tell us about them thar, Irwin  type blades, my cutoff saw eats up blade like pancakes, hate it, use bandsaw mostly, but slow, tell me about them thar blades,  Duh--Duane

[etat]

Irwin Blade link I found. http://www.1-home-improvement.com/circular-saws/Irwin-18030-7-14-B00008US7L.html  I originally bought these blades to cut commercial tin for roofing.  Was really impressed.  So one day tried it on 1/8 inch sheet metal when I was making a new fender for my trailor.  So, when I started my shop decided to try it on 1/4 inch by 2 inch angle iron.  Was cutting pieces up in 6 inch pieces for clips.  Guy working for me cut about 40 one evening, one blade, broke two teeth on blade, probably by getting in a bind.  Still used the saw to cut steel, missing teeth didn't make a whole lot of difference.  Had some 1/2 inch by 3 inch flat stock.  Cut these into small pieces for reinforcing.  The down side, safetty equiptment and heavy long sleeves is a must.  Throwing a lot of metal chips out the front that will blind you, or cut your skin.  AND, the thing is LOUD cutting.  Makes a very annoying racket.  I spray the blade with WD40 after each cut.  If cutting a long ways on steel plate sometimes I stop and spray the blade.  I also mark my line and take a squeeze bottle full of cutting oil to oil the line on the steel I'm cutting.  This will add a LOT to the life of the blade. I use a worm drive skillsaw.  It is very possible that these would burn up a cheap skillsaw.  I have seen them for sale at the lumber yard.  Havn't ever seen them at lowes or HD but some areas may be different.  Duane, say you can find and buy one, if it don't cut like I say let me know and I'll send you your money back.  Saying this to let you know I'm serious, I would have never thought a blade with carbide teeth for a skillsaw would cut steel at all, much less do a good Job.    Again, you can't let em get in a bind, it'll snatch a tooth out if you ain't careful.

J wood, thanks for the info on cast, with that I need all the help I can get.  It's one of them things I kinda know what to do, just not what I'd consider a professional at it.  Anybody that's ever set a mig up for aluminum I'd like to hear more about too as I've never tried that.  My main first question would be will a small mig feed the aluminum wire without springing for a spool gun.  Forgot to add, on that old helmet of mine, if you leave it on it'll run the battery down.  Happened to me more than once and now I try to keep a few spare batteries.  Seems solar would be much better.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Cheater lens, eh???  What's that ???
  I have used plain old skilsaw blades in a skilsaw to cut sheet metal. Put up a Butler building on the farm. Used the skilsaw to trim the cuts around the doors and such.
  TRICK IS,drummy,drummy,drummy,drummy; Install the blade backwards----- TA-DAH. Wear 3 sets of earball covers. The noise is deafining, HUH ??? Never tried Carbide, just plain steel blades. Throws chips everywhere, speshully down yer neck ???

  Aluminum-----If it ain't clean,clean,clean, ya better have LOTS of hair on yer head :D :D  

  We bought one of them handy-dandy Miller 120 plug in the wall mig welders. Works very well. Welded Aluminum first thing. Looked like I was a preeefeshunal welder. The longer I welded the worse it got. I'm talking days, not inches of bead.

  Seein as how this ain't a preeefeshunal forum, I will splain the mig welder. It has a liner inside the plastic coated feed cable. The liner looks just like a choke cable or throttle cable on a lawnmower or such.  Problem is, the aluminum wire that feeds through the liner, is soft, and the liner will scrape small amounts of aluminum off and eventually it builds up inside and starts to feed badly. THEN, ya get the wire to not feed at all, and it will wad up inside the machine, at the beginning of the feed cable.  Thats always fun. Then, ya get to open up the machine and start unwindin the mess. Get it all nice and straight and start over. Might weld fair for about 2 inches, then, wads up again.

  We called the dealer and found that there is a liner made for aluminum wire. It has a Teflon lining. Great, I will be right there. Don'T bother , he says, they quit making them : : :
  That's when we bought the Tig welder, used, for a song.

  A spool gun is about the best way to weld aluminum with a mig welder. Grind it and then wire brush it and then weld it. If it has a build-up of dull oxidation, it should be ground through to reveal bright material.
  Some welders won't weld aluminum, period. It needs everything to be right, to do a good job.
   We get to weld aluminum that has been in Salt Water and has corrosion, salt, oysters, barnacles and bottom paint on it. Mostly people that trailer their boats with the outboard down or the outdrive down. Breaks that little skag piece off right nicely. : ;D ;D ;D  Them are LOTS of fun to weld, without heating the gear oil and building up pressure, and blowing the seals out. ;D  Can you say, KA-CHING ??? ;) ;) :D :D :D

[EZ]

When I'm welding heavier metals with the mig, I push the wire in, in other words I weld backwards. You get alot better penatrasion(sp) this way. Unless your mig is big enough to handle the job.
EZ

[etat]

EZ, go ;Dod thing to mention weldin backwards with the mig.  Also this keeps the main flow of gas, usuallyl either co2, or argon co2 mixture, I understand you use pure argon for aluminum but I've never welded aluminum, cooling the puddle and keeping oxygen out.  The gas on a mig replaces the flux on the regular weldin rods.  Addin to Fla. post, when I did turn a blade backwards to cut thin sheet I used a fine tooth blade such as for plywood.  The Irwin will preform much better.  DanG, I might have to polish up my singing skills, I'd sure like to have one of them tigs. for a song! ;D ;D 8) 8)

[D._Frederick]

If  you were going buy a single phase MIG welder, what make would you get and with what accessories. I would like a welder that would weld 1/4 inch hot rolled.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I haven't kept up with the models, but, a Miller 240 Volt machine would be my choice. Used them a bunch building towers. You can turn it down to weld sheet metal and up to weld ¼" stock. We actually welded some ½" stuff with no problem. Used overlapping beads, no problem.

  Use CO2 for anything but Aluminum. You can use Stargon, but, we prefer straight Argon for Aluminum. You can get the spool gun for Aluminum, as an extra, most anytime. Call Miller Dealers. They sometimes have trade-ins and will demo the used one for you. There are other brands, but, we prefer Miller.

  This is one place ya don't wanna skimp. Ed had to use a Lincoln Century (Home Depot) Tig on Tuesday. Took forever to get a decent weld on Aluminum. Guy asked him how he liked it. Ed said "piece of S**t". It was one of them suitcase sized models. Ours weighs about 1200 pounds. It's old, but, works soooo  fiiiine. ;D ;D

[jwood]

D Frederick..it depends on how much welding you want to do .
the little 110 volt welders have a 20 % duty cycle meaning you should only weld 2 minutes out of 10 ..welding longer than  2 min heats windings in tranformer an will shorten life of welder..larger machines 220 volt 150 , 180, 200 amp have between 60 an 100 % duty cycle..usualy  100% on lower amperages tapering to 60 % at max amps..you can stick 1/4"
metal together on one of the 110 volt machines that get to 130 amps, miller and hobart handler , but it can be tough on them if you weld for long periods..you know i cant remember if you can get 130 out of the handler but its a good machine for what it is ..if doing much welding look at millers 150 and 200 miller matics...you cant wear em out..if they break they can be repaired reasonably ..there are some like the hobart 180 that the pc board cost is outrageous..unless they have
fixed its problem in the last couple years..the millers can weld 023 to 045 wire ..i'll check with the welder repair guy i know an see which machines are comin in alot for repair and which ones are giving good service..

[Duane_Moore]

  thanks for the help on the saw blades, will try them, have used a plywood blade backwards before, on siding, works fair, thanks for that also Guys,  I use a Lincoln SP200 welder, and use a spool gun for alum, co2, because of cost, my welding looks like the thing chicken's do, Grandad made me flash grind all shafts with the flow to keep the molicular(sp) structure in line, or reline the molicules, what I know  Me from Wyoming, Duane :D

[EZ]

I have a 180-200 Miller, aint had no problem with it. What ever type or size you get, make sure you get the big bottle.
EZ

[Don P]

If not you are down to Harold's hacksaw blade or some of the other old farm boy tricks I'm sure you know.

Only farm boy tricks I know go something like "hit it like I live", "Don't force it, get a bigger hammer" So I got the 16 lb out and frailed to fit. Thought since I made a mess of describing my predicament, I'd show y'all what a bad welder I am  ;D. The pulley used to spin on the orange pipe on the left, the worn out bent thing. I kicked around the scrap pile and made the mess you see, the pulley is now "interference fit" on a pipe and spins in the outer pipes you see...bend that I say.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 :D :D :D :D  Don, looks like ya mighta misplaced yer plumb-bob  :D :D :D :D :D

  Don'T feel left out. I betcha every welder on this forum does that kinda "adjustin", occasionally : : :D :D :D

[Duane_Moore]

  you guys quit it. welded a Volarie front end under a 56 Ford pickup today. and all I could think of. IS IT OK. Yous guys gots me scared, Done this many times before and didn't even think about it, but NOW,  Oh well ifin it brakes it brakes,  Duh--Duane    :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/TEXT

[Don P]

Bob?, I saw that sucker sneak off when I got the persuader out  :D ;D
Hope to get back to makin square ones out of round ones next weekend, got the neighbors logs sittin at the front end. Thats my dust trailer in front of the homemade blower at the front. Need to take a load to work, its mud season around the jobsite

[EZ]

Been talking to a few people that say tigs are the best welder you can buy. Couple of them said if I had a tig I wouldnt need my stick or mig welder.
Is this true and why are they the best.
EZ

[ADfields]

Well, I don't think thats true at all.   I have a tig and it hooks on my Miller stick welder and I love it but it seldom gets used compared to the stick part.   It's slower, things got to be 100% clean to tig them, it's hard to do overhead and get in tight spots with a tig.   I don't like a mig myself but they are very handy for thin stuff and in a fab shop that you are laying bead all day long, I just find myself following the wire out of the gun and getting a ugly weld with them. :   Tig can give you a great weld with no slag on all kinds of stuff that cant be stick or miged at all.   I would say they all have there jobs and none is the best or worst welder, just different.
Andy

[EZ]

Thanks AD.
One of our welders down at the shop, let me try the tig today. I see what you mean about slower and hard to get it in some places. I tig some mild steel, brass, and aluminum it was pretty cool. I like the al. weld the most, but I would probably only use it once a year, maybe.
Thanks again.
EZ