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Maple syrup with a kiln?

Started by Just Me, December 29, 2010, 07:07:49 PM

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Just Me

  I just saw a post about the sugar bush and it got me to thinking....

I am going to build a kiln, probably a Logosol unit and I also have all sugar maple on the property that I am building my house/shop. I see in the specs that the small unit will remove something like 240 pounds of water a day. so....

Has anyone tried using a likn as an evaporator? I am not looking for real syrup production, just personal use, but I can weld stainless so making up a pan would be no big deal. You see where I am going....

Also I spend way too much on tools, so if I could make homemade maple syrup with a kiln it would would put points in the kiln column with my wife. ;)

Reddog

My quick thoughts.
Wood surface area is going to wick the water into the air faster than a pan of water will.
Might need to bubble it to help it along.
It could take days to reduce and that could lead to mold or botulism growth.

An interesting idea hope some one else has tried it and can share there outcome.

Dana

I make maple syrup in a small pan in the back yard. My observations are that if the sap isn't at a rolling boil then not much evaporation takes place. That boil temp is like 219 deg. depending where you are with the sugar content. I doupt that kiln temps reach that degree of heat.
Grass-fed beef farmer, part time sawyer

SwampDonkey

Too bad you couldn't squeeze the juice from the green sapwood lumber and collect that to. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Den Socling

I actually looked at this idea and got some feedback from SUNY. I had sent them a sample from a vacuum kiln. It seemed like a good idea because I can collect every drop from my vacuum kilns. Also, I have customers who dry nothing but HM bat billets. It turned out that the sugar was so dilute that it would take too much energy to drive off the water. For most of the year, the sap is mostly water.

Along the same line, I have dried some exotic species that smelled great. The water from the wood smelled great, also. It would be a shame to see it going down the drain.

SwampDonkey

I assume more water because of higher stem flow during the growing season.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tom

It seems to me that the sugars would stay in the wood and the water would be about the only thing that would make it to the air.

SwampDonkey

He's using vacuum not just heat and humidity Tom. In a conventional kiln, you are probably right.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tom

Yeah, Swamp, but he isn't applying a different pressure to each end of the stick.  The whole thing gets the same treatment, right?  I thought that the pressure reduction was to vaporize the water, not displace solids.  Even in an evaporator pan, you can boil and boil and the syrup remains in the pan.  :)

I would think that the possibility would exist to use a kiln for the heat source to evaporate the water from the sugars in a pan that was filled with sap tapped from trees, if algae didn't grow in it.  'Course there wouldn't be much cooking done, if that is necessary.

SwampDonkey

Turgor pressure in the cells caused by water volume causes a swelling of the cells. As the wood dries the free water is liberated from the cells and I assume carries dissolved sugars with it in solution. Is the sugar bond with the cell contents stronger than with water when it passes through the cell wall? I assume not. It has to move freely through the wall or it couldn't be stored or transported in the tree.  That's another point, the cells have to be living to get them to release the sugar in storage don't they? Some energy expelled in some way. Unless the wood is laying in water and you boil heck out of it to release the sugar. But, is the vacuum kiln vaporizing all the water from the surface of the wood and then capturing the condensed water? If it's just vaporized water than I can see your point Tom. I guess I'm not a vacuum kiln guy.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jim king

QuoteAlong the same line, I have dried some exotic species that smelled great. The water from the wood smelled great, also.

Some times with the right woods in the kilns the area smells like roses here.

SwampDonkey

I think they need to distill yellow birch sap to capture the oil that smells like winter green. If you boil the sap down all you get is fructose and some other minute impurities.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Just Me

Just to clarify: I was planning on tapping the trees to get the sap, and was just wondering if in a shallow pan a kiln would evaporate the water at a rate that would be feasable.

And looking to put something in the plus column on my wifes side of the ledger.  ;)

SwampDonkey

Just Me, we were just theorizing. ;)

Probably not feasible. Experiment. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Den Socling

I believe that the sap is usually water because the sugar is stored as starch in the fall and moves up the stem only in the spring.

I think Tom is right about most sugar staying in the wood. Organic compounds do travel with the vaporized water but they have to be as volatile as water.

And Just Me, tell your wife about all of the nice stuff you could build if you had the dry wood from a kiln. Of course, you would need a lot of shop equipment, too.  ;D

Just Me

Quote from: Den Socling on December 31, 2010, 03:32:50 PM
And Just Me, tell your wife about all of the nice stuff you could build if you had the dry wood from a kiln. Of course, you would need a lot of shop equipment, too.  ;D

I already have about 200K invested in my shop, so whats a little more? my problem is I am building her a new house for cash, so if I buy a kiln I am stealing from her house......

jimF

The sugars do flow with the water from the interior to the liquid boundary line ( drying front) but does not evaporate with the water. Depending on the rate of evaporation, determines how concentrated the sugars can get on the surface.  This is evident with the occurance of sticker stain which is the oxidation of sugars. The chemicals that evaporate with the water must also be able to evaporate if the was no water present, such as terpenes in softwoods.

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