Chinese copies

[sawguy21]

Spiker, you have pretty much summed it up. I am in the outdoor power equipment industry, we are seeing more of the off shore product and it will not stop until the consumer says whoa. So many companies that built their name around quality products have lowered the bar to gain market share with the mass retailer. Volume=happy shareholders.

[John Mc]

My brother in law was telling me about some chinese-made power equipment or another (probably a gas-powered water/trash pump or a generator, since we've been talking about those lately) that came with a spare engine. That gives you some idea of how confident they are about it's durability, I guess.

[smalldog]

Not a fan of any cheap copies...what ever the product is.

[Yoopersaw]

How do you tell if it's a real 372XP or a Chinese copy?

[Jeff]

Drop it from 3 feet up.

[SwampDonkey]

Jeff, that has merit. Even these ruggedized Trimble GPS are tested for 3 foot drop on concrete. ;D

[Smurf]

Yeah way Sad that Poulan and now Husky are offering Cheap 3rd World Class Saws. Even Stihl has cheapened their Product Line , but fortunately do not offer their Product from any Box Stores . :

[SwampDonkey]

Their (Stihl) pro brush saw sure isn't getting cheap, it's probably the most expensive on the market now. But it's also well made, the FS550.

[chainsaw_louie]

The quality, imho  comes down to the quality of the metal used in each of the 100 or so  different parts in a chainsaw.  I dont think its that hard to reverse engineer a chainsaw and make a stihl/husky look alike.  The hard part is the huge amount of research into the metal used and  how the parts wear during use and coming up with the different steels and alloys that provide the best combination of price, long wear, light weight etc.  This is where the Germans and the Japanese have really excelled and from what I can tell requires a commitment to getting it right regardless of the time it takes or  the cost .   Walmart failed in Germany partly because the consumers there want quality more than low price.  Those cheap imports will come and go , just like those cheap minibikes that autozone was selling a few years back.  The cheap tools etc just does not last and they cant build a lasting base of satisfied customers.

My brother runs a small commercial woodworking business and off in the corner are a bunch of Grizzly tools that have been replaced by higher quality tools by Oneway, Powermatic etc. 

-tim

[weimedog]

Hope Spike60 visits this thread as he has a great story..true story about a fellow who came in his store with a Husqvarna 365 that had a broken handle and chain brake handle..he wanted to know if there was something Spike could do...and after a little inspection Spike realized it was a Chinese copy. Husqvarna logo's and all. Even on the Box! It was actually a very close copy of the early versions of the 365 to the point where you could probably retro over parts. So he did and brought it up last weekend for motomedic and I to see...with a true OEM Husqvarna handle so it could run.

Some of the tell tale signs were the more brittle and lower surface finish quality plastic...(why the handle broke to begin with)...also a bit harder to start and the carb was a copy of a walbro...(yes a copy!) and we couldn't get the thing to idle down consistently.) It didn't run bad in the cut but wasn't anywhere near the quality of a true Husqvarna..I'll let Spike discuss the gymnastics this company has gone thru to beat the system to allow these things in the country..things like direct shipping from China...so you don't have anyone to sue. The Box within a box to lable it as a gift..just amazing twists and turns. You would hope there was legal recourse by Husqvarna and the stung customers....of course as a former manufacturing engineer I realize the expense this company went thru to reverse engineer and then build the tooling to create this fake..they aren't going to give up right away...as time goes on they probably will improve and both increase product quality and technic to get them in to markets as they obviously are just one step away from criminal...no this is a criminal activity as its clear from all the twists they are intentionally breaking the law.

I do notice they have changed the website to inform folks its a made in china product now!!! Something must have happened!
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/426215584-HUSQVARNA-365-GASOLINE-CHAIN-SAW-65CC-3-4KW-MADE-IN-CHINA-wholesalers.html

Check out the first posting I made on this compared to this updated version! I do know the Chinese Government has made an attempt to address these types of copy right infringements this last month..it was on the news..maybe this new posting is a result.

[John Mc]

We used to have a manufacturing plant in Mississippi that made aluminum screen cloth (goes into window screens, filters, etc.) We always had a bit of trouble with imports coming in that had copied our packaging and logos. It was interesting, since we didn't  sell much of anything retail or to end users. Most of our stuff sold to other manufacturers.

We closed the plant several years ago. within the last few months, we got a call from one of our former competitors asking if we had sold the rights to our name, trademark, etc. Apparently, the copycats have realized there is no one left to hound them about trademark infringement. They've copied all our packaging perfectly (the quality of the material leaves something to be desired, and sometimes it smells fishy - literally).

John Mc

[JohnG28]

That 365 copy is something!  I have seen some copies of Stihl saws and a few others but that takes the cake.  I can see that really getting by someone.  Makes you wonder what they might be able to do if they put the amount of effort into producing an actual product instead of a copy of someone elses. :

[weimedog]

Wait until you get to see it up close and personal. And the box...that is just rich. you have to see it to appreciate the effort. And the Husqvarna logo on the SPARK PLUG! The bar, the covers with duplicate stickers on the top cover. Made in Sweden in one place, made in China on another! I said jokingly somewhere its a conglomeration of the cheap after market parts you can ebay..just assembled into a saw..and with legitimate looking packaging and stickers. AND I bet there is more truth to my original honest attempt to joke than any one could have imagined even a month ago.

[Spike60]

The new link says made in China, but there are no legitimate Husky 365's being made over there. And Husky certainly would give them all the same serial number, would they?  :D

I don't know if there's a direct conection, but I was able to get that customer a refund through his credit card company by identifying several parts that were stamped made in China, where they should be stamped made in Sweden. So, maybe this is a clever way for them to refute further claims by people who realize that they have been hosed.

Also keep in mind that the guy who bought that saw actually believed that it was a real Husky. He kept saying "it says Husqvarna all over it". It was easy for me to spot the flaws instantly because I'm a Husky dealer. Most guys here on the site would likely notice it as well. But the average non-enthusiast buyer wouldn't have a clue.

At some point someone will bring one of these fakes into a Husky or Stihl dealer exoecting to get warranty work done on it, and the look on the guys face when he finds out what he has will be priceless.

I was able to get a used 372 tank on that saw so Weime, Moto and I could mess with it, but it wasn't a clean fit, and I doubt you could always count on getting parts from your local husky dealer to keep that piece of crap in running condition. There are places where they use different hardware. Another example, the trigger assembly and throttle cable are somewhat different. You could simply break the cheap trigger and have to replace the entire tank assembly @ $114.

Good to keep these discussions going; the more people we can educate, the better.

[Warbird]

Makes a guy nervous about buying a saw online...

[isawlogs]

It will make buying a used saw interesting in the near futur, no matter from where you get it   :-\ 

[Warbird]

Yup.  From you guys who are 'in the know' about these Chinese knockoffs, is there a simple and quick list of things to be on the lookout for?  Stuff that will outright prove a saw is a cheap knockoff?

[Yoopersaw]

I purchased a Arians lawn mower last summer for over $600 and it came with a Kohler engine.  Only on the first oil change, did I notice on the engine "Made in China."  I wouldn't have bought it if I knew up front.

[Warbird]

I'm talking about the ones that don't have an obvious "Made in China" tag.  Outside of asking a seller to drop it from 3 feet and let us know if it still works, what are some easy ways to know a supposed Stihl or Husky is a fake?

[Yoopersaw]

I know the local dealer won't accept me dropping it at all.

[Al_Smith]

I've yet to experiance any Chinese made chainsaws but I'm sure I will as time goes on .

It's gotten to the point that even good old USA companies have many things made in China we basicaly know nothing about until having discovered same after buying the product in good faith .Sad to say there are two new appliances I recently installed I got that surprise on .One a Kitchen Aid dish washer and a surface cooking unit .

The icing on the cake though was 3/4" oak plywood for cabinetry .Can you imagine good old Ohio red oak sent to China,veneered into plywood then sent right back to where  it came .Now that sucks . :(

[SwampDonkey]

I've busted my second Chinese clamp today. This time a bar clamp. The thread in the cast went just like in the C-clamp around Christmas. Anyone that thinks they are saving money buying this junk never added up all the replacements you made versus one that lasts a lifetime, Canadian or US made.  ;)  You can tell as you tighten them the cast wears off the threads and ends up on the piece your clamping like filings. :D

[isawlogs]

 Could you be kind enough  to share what it is that they have made in China  ???

[Warbird]

What you probably saw was a Stihl with replacement Chinese parts.  That's my guess.

[Ianab]

Stihl certainly has a manufacturing plant in China, opened in 2006.

They probably aren't supplying the US market from there (yet), but in Stihl's case it's their own factory, presumably making gear up to their standards. Not some dodgy back yard outfit slapping Stihl stickers on any old junk.

http://www.stihl.com/isapi/default.asp?contenturl=/unternehmen/presse/tagespresse/499.htm

Ian