Need advice removing stuck/broken bolt in Norwood blade guide

[efiles123]

I recently attempted adjusting the blade guide on a Norwood mx34 sawmill only to strip the head of one of the Allen bolts. A friend tried heating the blade guide with a torch and drilled and used and EZ out but the head of the bolt broke off. I decided to give a try myself and purchased an EZ out that came with the corresponding 5/32" drill bit. I also purchased a separate cobalt drill bit a hair smaller 9/64". I already tried drilling and found these bits seems to be too big. They almost seem to scrap the entire bolt as they are similar in diameter. I purchased these bits since the 2 different charts online shows this was the correct size for a number 10 bolt. I'm thinking I'll try a smaller size, maybe one or two sizes smaller and I can always work my way up. Anyone else recommend a certain size for this bolt?

[Machinebuilder]

Im more than a bit rusty on inch size bolts and don't have a reference handy.

It sounds like you bought  drills sized for clearance and Tap .

It is really hard to drill out a screw with one and keep good threads in the hole.

I would buy as small an ez out as you can and drill as small a pilot hole as you can first.
 You may need to make a good flatish spot in the center before center punching and drilling

soak it in a good penetrating oil before you start.

Good luck it can be difficult to do this on small screws

[doc henderson]

I find the smaller EZ outs tend to bend and twist with a stuck bolt.  I may not buy the highest quality kits.  you can keep drilling to the next larger size.  if you take care to center the first hole and drill straight, then you can often drill until the threads of the holes are beginning to show and the bolt remains come out almost like a spring.  I have done this several times.  You can then clean it up with a tap.  you have to be sure you do not drill out all the threads in the hole.

[Old Greenhorn]

I recently attempted adjusting the blade guide on a Norwood mx34 sawmill only to strip the head of one of the Allen bolts. A friend tried heating the blade guide with a torch and drilled and used and EZ out but the head of the bolt broke off. I decided to give a try myself and purchased an EZ out that came with the corresponding 5/32" drill bit. I also purchased a separate cobalt drill bit a hair smaller 9/64". I already tried drilling and found these bits seems to be too big. They almost seem to scrap the entire bolt as they are similar in diameter. I purchased these bits since the 2 different charts online shows this was the correct size for a number 10 bolt. I'm thinking I'll try a smaller size, maybe one or two sizes smaller and I can always work my way up. Anyone else recommend a certain size for this bolt?

SO do I understand you are tying to drill out a 10-32 or 10-24 screw? SO the tap drill size for a 10-32 is a #21 drill which measures .1590" diameter. A 10-24 (NC) will use a #25 drill which is even smaller at .1495". If you use a 5/32 which is .1562" diameter, you will need to be dead perfect going down the center of that screw. Start smaller and grind the top of the broken screw flat so you have a fighting chance to get a center mark or a center drill in there. I assume you have lubed the heck out of it with something like Bluecreeper and some heat to make it wick in? Easy outs don't work very well or at all with tiny screws. By the way, the OD of a 10-32 is about .189" which is couple thou over 3/16 (.1875") just for a reference point.

 One of the tricks I use is to buy a left handed drill of the proper size, use penetrating oils and some heat, then drill the screw (Left Handed) and at some point, if you have been a very good boy all year, the screw will begin to unscrew as you release the pressure on it.
 Barring that find a shop with a die sinker EDM and burn it out, or better yet, and Elox (Electro Arc) tap burner of which there are very few left in this world that I see. Still made in MI though.

 Best of luck.

[Big_eddy]

I've had no luck with Easy(??) Outs, ever, despite having tried numerous types and times. My go to now is to weld it out. Put a washer with a hole slightly larger than the bolt head over the bolt to shield the base material, put a good sized nut onto the bolt head, then weld in the hole of the nut to what's left of the bolt, and wrench it off. Works for stripped and broken off bolts, even when the bolt is snapped off slightly below the surface. Gives you a better head to grab and the heat of welding breaks down any rust bonds. Depending on the bolt and weld qualify, it might take a few goes but the all come out eventually. And the original threads are still good afterwards.

[fluidpowerpro]

Same here. I dont think I have EVER been successful using an easy out. There is nothing EASY about them. Whoever came up with that name should be shot. 

[jpassardi]

Same here - I pretty much don't even attempt to use Not So Easy Outs any more. I once broke one in an exhaust manifold, the problem is they're very hard so good luck drilling them with tool steel. You then have to heat them to remove the hardening.
I resort to the weld a nut number also. Heat the steel you're trying to remove it from as well.

[rusticretreater]

The best and surest way is to remove the part and take it to a machine shop.  They can chuck it up exactly square to the surface and precision drill it out.  If the threads get munged, they can fix that too.

[Peter Drouin]

With all the time and bull into sofar. I would have thrown them out and got new ones. But, that's just me. 
Good luck.

[Magicman]

There are times when it is easier/necessary to drill it out and up-size to the next larger bolt. 

I have at least 3 on my sawmill where the 1/4" is gone and they are now 5/16".  

[rusticretreater]

Also, anytime you take one of these things out, put some anti-seize lube on the bolt threads and chase the hole threads to clean them out. A good shot of blue-creeper or liquid wrench will help.

[efiles123]

I recently attempted adjusting the blade guide on a Norwood mx34 sawmill only to strip the head of one of the Allen bolts. A friend tried heating the blade guide with a torch and drilled and used and EZ out but the head of the bolt broke off. I decided to give a try myself and purchased an EZ out that came with the corresponding 5/32" drill bit. I also purchased a separate cobalt drill bit a hair smaller 9/64". I already tried drilling and found these bits seems to be too big. They almost seem to scrap the entire bolt as they are similar in diameter. I purchased these bits since the 2 different charts online shows this was the correct size for a number 10 bolt. I'm thinking I'll try a smaller size, maybe one or two sizes smaller and I can always work my way up. Anyone else recommend a certain size for this bolt?

SO do I understand you are tying to drill out a 10-32 or 10-24 screw? SO the tap drill size for a 10-32 is a #21 drill which measures .1590" diameter. A 10-24 (NC) will use a #25 drill which is even smaller at .1495". If you use a 5/32 which is .1562" diameter, you will need to be dead perfect going down the center of that screw. Start smaller and grind the top of the broken screw flat so you have a fighting chance to get a center mark or a center drill in there. I assume you have lubed the heck out of it with something like Bluecreeper and some heat to make it wick in? Easy outs don't work very well or at all with tiny screws. By the way, the OD of a 10-32 is about .189" which is couple thou over 3/16 (.1875") just for a reference point.

 One of the tricks I use is to buy a left handed drill of the proper size, use penetrating oils and some heat, then drill the screw (Left Handed) and at some point, if you have been a very good boy all year, the screw will begin to unscrew as you release the pressure on it.
 Barring that find a shop with a die sinker EDM and burn it out, or better yet, and Elox (Electro Arc) tap burner of which there are very few left in this world that I see. Still made in MI though.

 Best of luck.

I like the idea of using a left hand drill bit as most people are saying the easy outs are not very reliable. I'll stop at the hardware store later to see if they sell them. If not ebay will likely be my next try.

[efiles123]

With all the time and bull into sofar. I would have thrown them out and got new ones. But, that's just me.
Good luck.

I'm starting to wonder if I should've order a replacement guide already but the fact I'm already attempting to fix I figure I'll go all the way. Worse case scenario I'll be ordering a replacement guide for $63. It's a double edged sword.

[Old Greenhorn]

Best to just order them from a tool supply like Manhattan supply or someplace like that. Again, if that's a number 10 screw, you are fighting a tough battle. Is it a blind or through hole?

[Peter Drouin]

With new ones, you would be cutting lumber by now.

[YellowHammer]

If you do everything prefect and just fix it back to the way out was, and it didn't work when new, then guess what will happen in the future?  You will be going down this road again. 

If you want to learn how to fix things, and make them better... drill it out in any way possible, I also use high quality left hand drills for this, and yes, they work better than any EasyOut ever invented, and it may spin out, or it may not.  Then drill out the nasty oval hole you probably just made to the next up fastener size, tap it, and done. Shouldn't take too long.  Also, remember than most allen or cap screws are hardened, unless they are stainless steel, so get a decent drill set.  You won't be able to drill out a hardened steel fastener with a garbage soft drill bit. 

Then, while you are at it, go to every other one of those same bolts, take them out if you can, put a touch of anti seize on them, and replace them.  At that point, see if you have enough clearance to replace all of them with a real bolt with a real head that you can get a real wrench on.  You may not be able to replace them all, but every one you can replace with a real fastener will save you grief later.



   

[scsmith42]

Lots of good advice from everybody in this thread.  I've used all of the methods heretofore mentioned with success.

You probably won't find a left twist drill bit at a hardware store, and for a bolt as small as a #10 you're fighting a losing battle.  It's really too small to try to weld a nut onto, and in all likelihood you will break the drill bit.

If you take it to a machine shop in all likelihood the cost will be greater than simply purchasing a new replacement.

I think that you'll be better off ponying up the 70 bucks or so for a new guide.  Perhaps they've improved them with larger bolts since yours was made.  Definitely use anti-seize on anything guide related, especially if you use water as a blade lube.

[doc henderson]

can we post a pic of the part and the threaded area.  can you upsize as mentioned, or weld a nut on it for threads after drilling out?  I may not understand the orientation of the threads on the part.

[SawyerTed]

I'm with @scsmith42, buy the replacement part.

Modify the new part (as @YellowHammer recommends) to get rid of the problem.

Don't kick the can down the road. 

[efiles123]

Best to just order them from a tool supply like Manhattan supply or someplace like that. Again, if that's a number 10 screw, you are fighting a tough battle. Is it a blind or through hole?

It's a dead end hole

[Peter Drouin]

I'm with @scsmith42, buy the replacement part.

Modify the new part (as @YellowHammer recommends) to get rid of the problem.

Don't kick the can down the road.

I am glad you like my idea in reply #8

[efiles123]

What size bit should I use if I decide to go with a left hand bit? Hopefully if I drill enough it'll pop out like doc said. I don't have a drill press so I'll be using a cordless drill. The bolt is a #10.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well trying to do a field repair on a blind 10-32 is near impossible. Not knowing what this screw is doing and how it got rusted in at all I don't think any of the repair suggestion other than going up in size will work for you. If you go up in size, you will also have to go deeper and I don't know if you have the material there. I would only attempt a removal repair from what I know by putting it in a milling machine and doing a properly. I'd probably just bore in a pocket where the screw is, fill it with weld, then redrill a new hole and tap it.

If you are free handing that hole and you don't have a dead center center punch mark you are likely to be shoveling sand against the tide. There is little chance of drilling down the middle. SO the smallest you can go, but if it were me, I'd just use the tap drill size and then deal with whatever I get.

[Big_eddy]

I still say weld it out.

You don't need to  go buy a left hand drill. Just grind the tip of a normal drill backwards. You don't care that the flutes are not backwards. You just need left hand cutting edges. For one time use, it works fine. Done it many times. If chips start to build up in the hole, it just applies more torque to the stuck bolt.

Then when you give up (or get the bolt out) you can regrind the drill back to normal. 

[GAB]

What size bit should I use if I decide to go with a left hand bit? Hopefully if I drill enough it'll pop out like doc said. I don't have a drill press so I'll be using a cordless drill. The bolt is a #10.

A left hand bit is a good idea, however when drilling if you get into the current block threads it will not come out as you drill.  I would probably try a 3/32" drill to start then try a left handed drill.
According to my Machinery's Handbook the tap drill size for a 10-32 thread is .156 or 5/32".
Do they make heli-coils for that size thread and do you have enough material to install one if they are available?
GAB