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Wild Fire 2025

Started by Riwaka, January 08, 2025, 12:25:00 AM

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Riwaka

Pacific Palisades Wild Fire, California & some wild-fire activity in Arizona reported, January, 2025.

Red Fire dozer videoed bulldozing cars & suvs that had been left in a road way.
Colin Rugg - X

TreefarmerNN

I can only imagine the hell that is trying to control fire in the face of 80-100 mph winds coming off a desert.  I feel for the residents and the first responders.  The residents that didn't take extraordinary fire precautions probably regret not doing so.  (Unburnable area around the house, metal roofing, non-flammable siding, etc.) Even some of those houses are likely gone just from thermal heating but some will survive while their neighbor's houses did not.

Andries

My niece was evacuated from her home very early this morning, the fire was four houses down the hill when she and her seven year old daughter grabbed a bug out bag and jumped into an emergency vehicle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqC_i9Ac_fE
A few hours later they got word that their house had burned to the ground.
They are jammed into a bachelor pad with a few other people while the fire and wind plays itself out.
Hard times for those folks!
LT40G25
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YellowHammer

Well, that is terrible news, indeed. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Riwaka

Zeke Lunder - The Lookout website & youtube channel earlier was estimating so far 20 000 acres for the Palisades fire and 10 000 acres for the Eaton Fire, plus additional area for the other nearby fires.

caveman

Andries, I hate to read that your niece and her daughter lost their house.  Thankfully they were able to get out.
Caveman

barbender

Sorry to hear that Andries, but I'm glad they got out!

There's nothing that can be done with a fire in winds like that but clear people out of the way. Truly horrendous!
Too many irons in the fire

thecfarm

Andries, sorry to hear that.
Glad all is safe.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Peter Drouin

On the news the LA- -FD has been putting out fires out on the tent camps for months. And abandon buildings where the homeless and illegals are staying. 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

tule peak timber

Thick wallets burn loudly.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

barbender

Tule, how are you doing outdoor there? I've been thinking of you, I didn't know how far you were from the fires.
Too many irons in the fire

tule peak timber

No power, roads in and out of service, and our own local firebugs playing with matches. Winds gusting in the 40"s and stronger next week. So far so good on this one thanks for checking in.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

GAB

TPT:
Do you know if any of your masterpieces have been gobbled up by the fire gods?
Try and stay safe.
GAB

W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

rusticretreater

Tis an ill wind that bears no good tidings.  I read an article this morning about Mel Gibson being in Texas on Joe Rogan's show.  

QuoteIn Rogan's Texas studio, Gibson remarked that he would be "surprised if my home is still there" in Southern California, saying that his son, a volunteer fireman, "sent me a video of my neighborhood, and it's in flames. It looks like an inferno." Gibson later confirmed that his house had indeed been destroyed.
Yeesh. Glad everyone is safe.
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tule peak timber

Quote from: GAB on January 10, 2025, 01:17:10 PMTPT:
Do you know if any of your masterpieces have been gobbled up by the fire gods?
Try and stay safe.
GAB


I made some calls this morning and no one knows much as the roads in the evac zones are shut down. My sister and her family are also wrapped up in this thing. One of the calls smelled like smoke on a current contract.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Andries

Some Canadian support for the LA Wildfires is in the news up here:

A Canadian water bomber from Quebec struck a civilian drone while working the fires. A hole in the wing caused the pilot to make an emergency landing. Everyone (other than the drone) is fine. Can't imagine what it would take to be an air traffic controller with all the emergency flights in the area.

A firefighter from this part of Winnipeg was staying with a girlfriend in LA and to help a buddy with renovations. His name is Romeo Petit and is being hailed by LA homeowners as a hero for helping save half a dozen homes from going up in flames. The fire hydrants were coming up dry but he was able to jury rig supply from areas already burnt out and redirected them to un-burnt areas. 
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/just-so-surreal-winnipeg-firefighter-joins-wildfire-battle-while-vacationing-in-l-a-1.7171532
Sounds like a fun guy, and his name translates to 'Little Romeo'. There's gonna be some stories when all this is over . . . .
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Riwaka

Seems the californian version of the tasmanian (australia) Blue gum (Eucalyptus globulus) tree is getting some blame for the nature of the Californian fires. 


barbender

I heard about the civilian drone issues...my feelings on drones are similar to my feelings on side by sides. A useful and fun tool, that seems to magnify the worst in human behavior.
Too many irons in the fire

Peter Drouin

And they have people in LA robin empty houses. 
It is not bad enough to get burned out you have to watch out for thefts too.

How low can a person get? smiley_thumbsdown
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Cedarman

Saw that some locals caught a guy lighting fires and then tied him up and he was holding a propane torch that he used to set fires.  Cop arrested and hauled off.  News said he was back on the streets for lack of evidence.  Y'all know what I'm thinking about all this.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Gary_C

Unimaginable devastation as shown by some drone footage. Would forest management, fire mitigation, and water reservoirs be good options?



Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

TreefarmerNN

Re: Post 19

I'm amazed the guy with the torch made it to jail.  Once he did, it's not surprising they turned him loose.  It is California where illegality is legal.

I'll bet if he gets caught by homeowners again he will be a bit worse for wear if the cops get him. 

Andries

Still a foreign country.
Still helping a neighbour out in a time of need.



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Magicman

I wonder what % of the water bomber's water actually gets to the ground to be effective?  As hot as the fire is, I would think that it would boil or evaporate when it reached the flames.
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To exceed your Desire to provide Quality Service

GAB

Quote from: TreefarmerNN on January 11, 2025, 11:56:47 AMRe: Post 19
I'll bet if he gets caught by homeowners again he will be a bit worse for wear if the cops get him. 
I wonder if the if before "the cops" should be when?
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Magicman

I suppose that the red stuff is a fire retardant and is dropped where the fire has not reached yet?  Maybe that is where the water is going too?
98 Wood-Mizer LT40 SuperHydraulic    WM Million BF Club

Two: First Place Wood-Mizer Personal Best Awards
The First: Wood-Mizer People's Choice Award

It's Weird being the same age as Old People

Never allow your Need to make money
To exceed your Desire to provide Quality Service

Andries

Lynn: The CL-415 can scoop up 1,350 gallons per fill on the fly.
I've been close to the drop zone on afire that I called in, in NW Ontario.
The first drop was close to the target, the second was a direct hit bullseye, third was a soaking for good measure. Red dye is used as a visual aid to focus the next drop, I'd guess, more than a fire retardant. That stuff is caustic as heck and how do you get it into the tanks on a scoop and drop mission?
I waved goodbye, they waggle their wings in reply, and the fire is under control or dead.
Spruce trees that measured nine inches at mid-way up were snapped off. That much water has a heavy impact, enough to flatten a house. 
However, according to firefighters that know, the humidity in the air at the fire zone is key. 
Romeo Petit knew that and was standing on a burning house, garden hose soaking down as much as he could to stop the fire from advancing.
A fine sprinkler mist over a wide area is enough to divert a fire around a built-up area.
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tule peak timber

Quote from: Magicman on January 11, 2025, 02:57:35 PMI suppose that the red stuff is a fire retardant and is dropped where the fire has not reached yet?  Maybe that is where the water is going too?
Phoschek drop in my back yard a couple of months ago. Wildfires are something we live with all year round.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Riwaka

The Canadair 515 is listed as having a 680 liter (180 US gallon) foam tank on board to go with the 6137 litres/ 1621 US gallon) onboard water tank. The 'foam' appears to be mixed in as the plane is scooping from the lake.(The Canadian pilot's accent in a 415 vid is a bit heavy for zee exact description).  

barbender

The Bombardiers are very impressive units. There is a long, narrow lake about 3/4 of a mile behind our house that they prefer to use, I'm told, because the length gives them flexibility in scooping and being narrow it doesn't get too choppy.

When they are scooping, it must be FULL throttle, even that far from the house the windows shake when they throttle up. In addition, they always worked in a team of two bombers, and a smaller spotter plane. So one bomber would be circling, while the other scooped. Often, their path would take them right over the house. One pass, the plane was low enough that I could see the pilots aviator sunglasses and moustache...that one really shook the house. That was much lower than I liked, if something happened he would've been right in the roof!

At any rate, my hat is off to those guys. They're good and I think they have thrill issues.
Too many irons in the fire

Ianab

Quote from: Magicman on January 11, 2025, 02:09:06 PMI wonder what % of the water bomber's water actually gets to the ground to be effective?  As hot as the fire is, I would think that it would boil or evaporate when it reached the flames.
They dump a LOT of water very quickly, but a fire like this, with the wind driving it, will be spreading burning debris hundreds of yards ahead of the main front. So it leap frogs any fire break / road / defensive line.

It's the wind that's driving the fire that makes it impossible to control
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Ianab

Quote from: barbender on January 11, 2025, 10:56:46 PMWhen they are scooping, it must be FULL throttle
When you think about it, they are picking up ~6 tons of stationary water, AND accelerating it to ~100 mph, in seconds. If they weren't at max power, it would be a pretty effective brake for landing. Except at the end of the scoop, they still need to be at flying speed to lift off again. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

barbender

Oh yeah, I fully understand why they are at full throttle. But it is surprising to hear what is already a loud plane, increase in volume about 3x with all the low frequencies that shake the house from a mile away!

Another thing to watch with these birds- when they drop their payload of water, which would be around 12,000 pounds I think, they gain about 100 feet of altitude in an instant. A person tends to be watching the water when they drop it, but sometime watch the plane itself. It jumps in height almost as if a movie that is missing a few frames.
Too many irons in the fire

customsawyer

Andries sorry to hear about your niece. Anywhere in front of a fire with 100mph winds would take someone with smarts and experience, or they wouldn't last long. 
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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Andries

Thank you, Jake and one and all, for the offers of support for my niece and her young daughter. The offers are heartfelt, generous and deeply appreciated.
The FF's hidden but very real strength is the strong relationships developed between honourable and hardworking people.
She's a clever cookie and has managed to get set up pretty well until they get longer term living space. 
Can you imagine what the California insurance industry is going through right now? 🤦�♂️ 

Our very own Tule Peak said it best: Thick Wallets Burn Loudly. Good one Rob! 

Headlines now are that the Santa Anna winds are going to remain strong for the next few days, looting is being controlled by a high LEO headcount and that landlords in the general LA area are busy 'disaster gouging' by jacking up rental prices. 
I'll also predict that lumber prices will have a big upward trend. Thousands of miles away up here, the price of studs and sheet goods jumped after this Fall's tornado mess in the SouthEast USA. 
Can't see why the LA rebuilding efforts and demand won't cause it to go up even more.
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Brucer

Quote from: Gary_C on January 11, 2025, 09:01:11 AMWould forest management be a good option?

Absolutely! But forest management would have made no difference in this case because this fire was a series of structural fires, spread by extremely high winds, with low humidity, after a prolonged drought.

QuoteWould fire mitigation be a good option?

Absolutely! But in this kind of fire the mitigation has to be at the individual homeowner level.

California firesmart program.

Firesmart landscaping

Those protection measures work. Looking at pictures from before the LA fires, most houses didn't even come close to those criteria.

This same situation happened on a smaller scale in Kelowna, BC in 2003; in Fort MacMurray, Alberta in 2016; and in Jasper, Alberta in 2024. No amount of personnel or equipment can stop fires on this scale. The fires are spread by burning embers landing on dry foliage miles ahead of the main fire.

QuoteWould water reservoirs be a good option?

Absolutely! LA has plenty of full reservoirs. One was closed for repairs. The problem wasn't a shortage of water in the city. It was a shortage of water pressure at the fire hydrants. Municipal fire systems are not designed to handle the demand when an entire subdivision goes up in flames all at once. And when several subdivisions on a hillside are all burning, there isn't enough pressure to supply any water to the highest levels.

The 3 million gallons of water storage at the top of the hills were supposed to provide the necessary pressure. But there were so many fires the tanks ran dry. The backup plan was to use the two air tankers (aka water bombers) from Quebec. They're stationed with their crews in LA every winter for precisely this situation. But the winds were so strong they couldn't fly in the early stages of the fire.



You can argue about climate change either way. It's irrelevant. People knew there was a prolonged drought. People knew about the Santa Ana winds. People just never imagined that a fire like this could happen.

I suspect that most homeowners didn't know about the firesmart guidelines I linked to above. And I suspect that a lot of people were complacent because their homes were far from the forest.

Could local politicians have done more? Yes. More planning, more preparation, and most important, more education of the public. But I'm sure the politicians didn't imagine this could happen.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

customsawyer

I've seen some interesting reports about the "smart" meters on the gas lines going to homes. Don't have a clue if there's any truth to it.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
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TreefarmerNN

Brucer in post 35 is right on target.  Smart landscaping, better prep by homeowners and the city all would have helped limit the destruction but given the circumstances as they existed, those fires were going to burn despite heroic efforts by people on the ground.  Now there will be scholarly studies and reports, lots of finger pointing but unfortunately, I doubt any real change from the governmental side.  Some homeowners, especially the wealthy ones will do doubt build back with fire resistance in mind but LA is already talking about cutting the red tape to allow quicker rebuilding.  No doubt lots of red tape is administrative nonsense but if they are going to allow construction in an area where lots of dry fuel exists and strong desert winds regularly occur, then perhaps it makes sense to require re-development to take those factors into account.  One thing is for sure- insurance companies will consider those factors.  These fires may literally break some companies and others will totally exit the market but all of us can expect higher premiums as a result of a multi-billion dollar event.  Not to mention, California is already saying the feds should pay for rebuilding. . .

Raider Bill

If you want to see what's going to happen in the Cali insurance market just look to Florida.
Same, same.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.
My advice on aging gracefully... ride fast bikes and date faster women, drink good tequila, practice your draw daily, be honest and fair in your dealings, but suffer not fools. Eat a hearty breakfast, and remember, ALL politicians are crooks.

tule peak timber

We are bracing for another big wind event today through Wednesday. We are warned that power is getting shut off sometime today for the whole area and we are on watch. No word yet from clients in the burn areas as to how they are faring. The places I grew up in as a kid, traveled through, and did business in since the 60's are gone and will be reshaped forever. My sister did make it out ok.

Our fire insurance was canceled 4 years ago and now we have the last-ditch State plan, colloquially referred to as the "CA Unfair Plan". Lots of politics involved as to who the fire department assist, visit, protect during our very frequent wildfire events. Really frustrating to be forced into compliance with the threat of fines yet selectively picked during emergency events. There is a great deal to this and there are no simple answers. The neighbours in back of us were wiped out a couple of months ago and are now operating a mobile taco stand at the local gas station trying to stay alive. Need I say more?

Until you have actually been through these fire hurricanes and fire tornadoes, it's easy to armchair fire fight, whether you are a politician locally or a well-meaning person somewhere else. These things happen very, very fast and education, planning, clearing, prepping is all fine but sometimes just doesn't make a darn difference.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

LogPup

I remember seeing the video of two guys trying to save their home.  If you had stepped out into the backyard you would have been incinerated.  The winds
were so high it was like a blow torch.  There is no way you could fight that.  I have been out in 80mph winds and got knocked on my butt and sand blasted.  The
dumb things we do when young!

Andries

Does anyone else see the heroic nature in these people?


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2l09vdlxv2o

Promoting self reliance is one change that may help moving forward.
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barbender

It's good to hear from people on the ground out there. 
Too many irons in the fire

Gary_C

Quote from: Brucer on January 13, 2025, 01:48:26 AM
Quote from: Gary_C on January 11, 2025, 09:01:11 AMWould forest management be a good option?

Absolutely! But forest management would have made no difference in this case because this fire was a series of structural fires, spread by extremely high winds, with low humidity, after a prolonged drought.



No doubt that forest management as well as the other options are long range prevention options. It's always difficult to remind yourself that when you are up to your you know what in alligators that your initial objective was to drain the swamp.

Here is a very good analysis from some local's who delve into the "Who's Accountable" question. The entire analysis is just over an hour long so get your popcorn if you decide to watch. It's eye-opening and there are no easy answers. As Mike Rowe puts it, It's all about the "Bass." Another little tidbit is the lady in charge of the reservoir that was empty and without a repair contractor hired makes $750,000 per year.


Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

PJS

This video was interesting. Friends of my parents lost their home to the fire, several more were under evacuation orders. Hopefully they get to the bottom of it. Lessons learned from those whose homes survived and I'll be implementing some around the farm this summer, better to be prepared cause we're not far from Algonquin and it's a tinder box waiting to burn in the right conditions.


Riwaka

West Coast of Tasmania (Australia) a large bush fire of more than 93K hectares (230K acres) at 16th February.

Normally regarded as the Wet West Coast. The location of Corinna (near the fire area) has an average annual rainfall of 1875mm, 74 inches.

From a botanical point of view, sadly it appears some 'reserve stands' of Huon Pine have been impacted in the fire. " Huon pine (Lagarostrobos franklinii) is a rare, ancient, and endangered conifer tree that grows in Tasmania, Australia. It's one of the oldest living organisms on Earth. "

YT vid title
'Erratic' weather for crews battling Tasmania's west coast fires | ABC News

https://youtu.be/wEnuYmFZiZU?si=T0reCy97dWaKXkHg



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