You want me to put my mill where??

[3Dog]

Ok.  I have been mill for over 10 years and during that time I have set up in the city several times to cut urban timber.  HOWEVER, today I got the first call that really left me speechless.

I had a call to see if I would be interested in milling some reclaimed barn timbers.  These timbers would be used to build several outdoor creations for a new big dollar condo complex in the city.  The gentleman explained that they had about 17,000 lineal feet of beams, most of which where 6-8" squares and up to 20' long.  I explained that I have sawn reclaimed material before and charge these jobs by the hour and made sure that the customer was aware that the chance of hitting metal etc was likely and that additional charges would be added for each blade damaged etc.,etc. THEN, He tells me there is no open space around the building to set up the mill sooo...they wanted to crane my mill up 8 stories and have me set up on the roof where all of the beams are already stacked and ready to saw!!!  Um..well...um..gee..um.gosh I have to think about that....

Has anyone done anything like this?  They are a very large and very reputable local firm and the money is appealing. But, I figured I would check with Woodmizer and see if structurally the mill could even be lifted without creating any dangerous stresses to the frame or alignment issues and any advice on securing the mill for liftoff.  The more I think about this the more I cant figure out if this would be an amazing job that could provide excellent advertising for me (you cant tell me lifting a sawmill 8 stories high in the middle of a city wouldn't get some news coverage) or if I am just crazy even considering the job (did I mention I am afraid of heights too?).

Any feedback, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[GDinMaine]

I would jump on a job like that. Look at the bright side.  You would not have to worry about someone hooking up and driving away with the mill.
Check with your insurance company if this kind of transporting would be covered.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Can't help but think of that song by 3 DOG night...."Mamma Told Me Not To Come?. 

[fishpharmer]

Make us proud, go for it!  Heck that would probably be some kind of world record.  Sawmilling 8 stories high!!! 8)

[Sixacresand]

Make sure there is an elevator to eighth floor.  I would be too whipped to mill if I had to use the stairs.

[goose63]

I can see it on the news now man with flying saw mill you would get some DanG good advertisement good luck might be a smart thing to do

[dgdrls]

If you don't someone with a swingmill would ;)

DGDrls

[scully]

I would be all over it . It dosn't sound like money is an issue for these folks

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Get all the way to the top and forget something....yep....charge by the hour. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

A portable mill is mostly lifted by the axle at the spring attachment points. Leaving a hundred or so pounds on the tongue.  If they can strap it at those places should be no problem, except perhaps some re-direct to avoid the  straps hitting the saw head in the travel position.  My guess is you would be fine, a crane operator should be using a big bar with two points anyway and just add a third point for the tongue.   That is with your mill, not mine. 

[thechknhwk]

That sounds awesome, if it's safe to lift the mill I'd be all over it!

[3Dog]

Thank you all!. 

I am sitting here reading your posts and I can only do 2 things right now. First is having that kind of butterfly feeling in my stomach and giggling so hard the sap might run right out of me.  I will start doing some serious brainwork on this issue.  Ill keep you up on the happenings.

[mikeb1079]

wow.  that's a really interesting opportunity.  i'd say if you can get your ducks in a row go for it.  and by city are you talking madison?  if so i'll definitely be stopping by.   

[3Dog]

Mikeb1079 the job would be in Madison.  If this actually works out (many things to figure out yet) I am sure it would be something well...different to watch.

You will be able to spot me right away- I will be standing at the controls of my mill in a red and blue spandex suit with a big superman cape gliding gracefully to the roof.

[mikeb1079]

Mikeb1079 the job would be in Madison.  If this actually works out (many things to figure out yet) I am sure it would be something well...different to watch.

You will be able to spot me right away- I will be standing at the controls of my mill in a red and blue spandex suit with a big superman cape gliding gracefully to the roof.

:D :D

well keep us posted i'd love to stop by/help if this goes down.  hmmm....8 stories and already built...gotta be the new state st complex, or perhaps francis st?

[Magicman]

Wow, I love the thought.  I would be all over that job and the newspaper would know how to spell my name correctly.   8)

[Dave Shepard]

I wouldn't worry about the mill as long as the head is very secure so it can't shift. If they have a crane that big, chances are they know how to use it. :D Just make sure that the ride back down is in the contract.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

At least you'll be closer to the sun. 

[backwoods sawyer]

You may want to have them lay down some heavy plywood to set the mill up on.

Hate to poke a hole in the roof.

I have a 5 page contract for those kind of spots, had it wrote up when we loaded the mill on an under sized barge in winter weather.

Have them sign off on taking resposibilty for the mill during the move up and down ;)

Enjoy the veiw 8) 8)

[Doug Wis]

   I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet but I think the unofficial FF policy is that if there are no pictures it never happened.

[Ljohnsaw]

That sounds awesome.  But when would you be doing it?  Isn't there a bit of snow on the ground roof?

[3Dog]

I really dont know any details yet.  I just had the call this afternoon. In all honesty the job may never happen if the building owners dont want to proceed or details cant be worked out.  I just thought it was something so out of the ordinary that you all would enjoy it.

Dave Shepard.....Excellent point on returning the mill to the ground.

mikeb1079- Are you located downtown? like in the East Main St. area?  I have seen a homemade mill on a trailer in that neighborhood when I pick my wife up from work.  It always catches my attention when I see another mill. Maybe its because I know that there has to be a story behind it.

[hunz]

This is absolutely awesome, and makes me even prouder than I already am to own a Wood-Mizer. Like others have mentioned, insurance coverage would be my main priority. So what if the mill falls.....I mean we wouldn't want that, but that also means you get a newer mill!

[4x4American]

My ford friend would say he'd just fly it up there with his ford  :D

Sounds like a heck of an opportunity.  These cranes lift way heavier things than sawmills, as long as it isn't a green operator I'd go for it.  Make sure head is bolted in place good.  If you don't have a giant banner already I'd get one made up if you get the job.

Good luck

[beenthere]

had about 17,000 lineal feet of beams, most of which where 6-8" squares and up to 20' long.  I explained that I have sawn reclaimed material before and charge these jobs by the hour and made sure that the customer was aware that the chance of hitting metal etc was likely and that additional charges would be added for each blade damaged etc.,etc. THEN, He tells me there is no open space around the building to set up the mill sooo...they wanted to crane my mill up 8 stories and have me set up on the roof where all of the beams are already stacked and ready to saw!!!

Sounds like someone got the cart before the horse (moving all those beams up top in some apparent raw state).
But sawing on a rooftop would be intriguing for sure. Good for the tree cycling business.
Wonder what the plan is for blowing sawdust? Or would a sawdust collection system be required by someone?
Will be interesting to hear what the plan is for a product sawn from the beams. And why not off site??

[Brucer]

My approach to jobs like this is to say, "Yes I can, and this is how much it will cost."

Before you can figure a price, you need to think of everything that could happen. Visualize your normal operation in great detail, and then think about all that stuff going on on top of an 8 story roof. What is going to happen differently?

Make a comprehensive list, price out everything, and then discuss it with the customer. Sometimes the customer can do something cheaper than you can.

Don't compete with your customer. In other words, don't be trying to make as much money as you can without losing the job, while at the same time he is trying to spend as little as he can. Make a collaborative project.

A few thoughts:

• Be sure to strap the head down tight to the bed of the mill. Don't rely on the weight of the head or the safety chain alone to hold it securely. If it shifts even a little while it is in the air, it could start swinging like a pendulum.
• Make sure the contract relieves you of any responsibility for damage to the structure caused by the mill.
• Will the vibration from the sawing and the engine be magnified inside the building? Will it matter?
• If your mill is insured, make sure it will be covered in this situation. If it isn't, make sure the customer insures it.
• Think of all the things that could leave you liable for damages to the public (or other businesses). For example, sawdust blowing off the roof, the wind catching a board just as you finish a cut and sending it over the side (of the building).
• How will you get fuel to the mill. Are there restrictions or bylaws about the amount of liquid fuel you move about in the building?
• Is the roof material flammable? Fire protection required for sure.

The biggest problem with jobs like this is that you know all about how your mill works, but your customer doesn't. Your customer has a set of expectations about how the job will proceed, but you don't know what they are. Both of you will be inclined to make incorrect assumptions about how much the other person knows about your specialty.

[Darrel]

Some folk have more money than brains. Don't worry about why they didn't do the work before they went to all the trouble to get the beams on the roof. Make sure all damages are covered in the contract and enjoy the view.

[LaneC]

Back the mill into a connex box (the double door boxes that they transport on ships and 18 wheelers), secure it inside, lift it and put it up top. You could use the box to store enough lumber in it for a good load, then let it down. They could unload it and send it back up. If not used for storing the lumber, the mill could be stored in the box when not in use. Just an idea. I do not know how difficult it is to move your mill by hand. It may not be a good idea, but just a thought.

[LaneC]

I guess I should have stated that the connex boxes have attachment points at all corners of the box (pad eyes) for lifting the box.

[Saga Dan]

Hi This is my first post to the site even though I have been hanging around for several months now.  I purchased a Woodmizer LT40 Manual in October and right now I have it stored for the winter.  I am pretty busy in the winters and would rather not have to worry about cleaning salt residue off my mill overtime I take it on the road.  But to the real point....  I have 15 years of experience, in my prior career, in the commercial roofing industry.  The questions I would have are as follows.  Who is responsible for roof protection?  Is the roof under warranty and is this acceptable with the manufacturer?  Who is responsible for the clean-up?  Most importantly maybe, who is responsible for safety and fall protection?  With this being a potential high profile sawing job, it may draw unwanted attention from some of the industry safety types.  I would not want to expose myself to potential fines for the sake of sawing in a high profile situation without having my bases covered with the general contractor.

[Peter Drouin]

And how are you going to move 20' beams to the mill. Use the crane?
If things looked good and the money was there I would do it. 8)

[slider]

As exciting as it sounds If the crane is on sight I would have them bring the beams down to you.much simpler.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Saga Dan.

As I was continuing to read, that was also my thought slider.  The logistics say to lower the beams, saw them on the ground, and then raise the lumber back up to the top.  Much less exciting, but much more logical.

[Chuck White]

Wood-Mizer most likely moves these mills around with a crane or hoist at times, so I think I would contact them to find the best "lifting points".

I would make sure that the sawhead is securely strapped down so it can't even wiggle!

I would also make sure that the loading arms are securely strapped down in the folded position.

[3Dog]

Excellent information again.  I didn't think about a lot of the points that were mentioned regarding roof, stray material etc.

Speaking only based on the prelim information I have, which isnt much , there is no area around the building to set the mill.  The beams are already on the roof (at least 12000 lineal feet of them, additional 5000 are offsite yet).  They intended to make dividers etc by simply stacking and pinning the beams together.  They found that this didnt work as well as planed due to variations in the different timbers. They reevaluated and determined that a better approach would be to mill 2 faces of the beams to make parallel surfaces plus all beams would be the same thickness which would decrease build time.  It would also make a much more stable divider, wall etc. 

We did talk a bit about the sawdust and waste wood that would need to be removed from the roof and that process didn't appear to be a problem on their end.

I will try and find out some additional information in the next day or so. Once I get that I will follow Brucer's advice and determine if it is feasible or not.

[Hilltop366]

I agree with Saga Dan (Welcome Dan) about the roof concerns, Sound like they are opening themselves up to potential roof damage, my thoughts about roofs are "put on then roofing then stay off as much as possible".

It would make more sense to me to take the beams off the roof and truck them off sight to be milled.

[FarmingSawyer]

When I secure my mill head for travel I use 2 sets of 2 pieces of 1/2" steel plate with two bolts running through them. One plate goes over the mill head rail by a wheel and the other goes under the track support. I use a battery impact wrench to tighten the nuts. One on each side of the head secures the mill from moving really well. The last thing you need is the head shifting even slightly and throwing the balance off.

See if you can talk to the crane company to find out what they require as well. They may have ideas which are sound too.

I once worked a residential job where there were 3 massive stone chimneys. I had to stack pallets of site chosen stone and then have a crane lift the pallets to the third story roof and swing them over the roof to an area by the eave between the chimneys. From there I had to unload each pallet and wheelbarrow the stone to the masons by the chimneys. The roof was metal and a fake over-roof was built on sleepers from 3/4 plywood. What a pain. I think the pitch was something like 2 or 3 in 12.....

I wouldn't hesitate to do this job and once the contract was signed and date set I'd promote the heck out of it!!

[Jim_Wahl]

A Forestry Forum member from Utah (if I remember correctly) has already done something similar to this with a mansion somewhere not too far from him. I'll do a search and see if I can find that thread again.

[Den-Den]

I would not worry too much about the roof, that is their problem and it already has several thousand pounds of timber stored on it.
I would worry about depending on the crane to move beams to and from the mill.  Cranes are busy around construction sites and you will likely have to get in line each time you need it; you may and may not be a priority to the crane operator (and the contractor).

[Warped]

I'd investigate a lifting platform you could park the mill on and strap it down for the lift. If the roof is a concern the mill be able to stay right on the platform.
Doesn't sound like the roof material is a concern so I would say just be careful and try to keep the sawdust out of the roof top pool. And be sure to take plenty of pool pics, if ya know what I mean....... 8)

[StimW]

I'll just say OMG! I can see this going wrong in so many ways.
For starters, the bigger the company the bigger the risk for the little guy! They know you see stars and bright lights but they know that they own you in so many ways.
I designed and built some golf range equipment for an international seller. I ended up working a year for free after expenses and they stole my designs! Don't tell me about patents! Again a joke for the little guy.
The only positive things I can add is if you go ahead, have "Replacement Value" stated in any contract for the mill.
Move off site and get paid as you produce.

[MP_Wall]

You need to get a gopro camera for the ride up and down with the mill, as well as when you are sawing. It will make a great video of the whole adventure both for you and Woodmizer and could provide help in case of a problem later on with the mentioned possible snags from sawing on the top of a building.
MPW

[Dave Shepard]

Working with cranes and on the roof may seem foreign to us, but to a big city construction company, it's probably just business as usual. If they are working on the roof, then it must be up to the task. There are all kinds of tricks to making big commercial jobs go faster, and putting skid loaders and small excavators on upper floors is quite common.

[backwoods sawyer]

When I worked in the the sawmill the third floor was the main production floor with the chip system taking up the lower two floor. Machine shop on the first floor, office filing room on the fifth floor.
We had a bridge crain that spaned the whole building with a mezamine on the forth floor and 20x24 whole to the first floor, I have put 30' pieces thru that hole ;)
During maintenace up grades the crane never stopped and could set machine centers with precition.
When the machine center was to heavy for the bridge crane, like the 6' drum chipper that was set in the basment, they would peel the roof off and bring in the big crane. 1/8" movments by way of radio kind of precition.

now our mills are light and agile in compairison.

once the mill is set bundles can be set in front of the mill as needed dought you would have to ask for the next bundle ;)

Lot less crane time to set the mill and bundles then set them all back down and back up. Eight floors takes some time to spool in and out. In this case it just makes sence to set the mill next to the product to be milled and mill on site.

The frame on the LT-40 is Ridged a four point lift with straps on the mill. I use a 2" ratchet strap around the sawhead and frame to keep the saw head from wiggling on the travel pin while traveling.

Pull up, disconnect, assist in strapping and meet it on the roof and get right to work, stop for photo opp when finished.

Site evals are a plus in these cases and a good opertunity for before photos ;D     

[Sprucegum]

On an hourly contract make sure you charge for stand-by time when you have to wait for the next bundle or beam  8)

[Chuck White]

I'd also suggest a "safety rail" around your work area.

Wouldn't want to accidently walk off the side, or even close! 


Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Warped!

[Barney II]

Wow, that would be a great deal.  Just remember that you are right in the center of every inspectors business that has ever been thought up by mankind and just waiting to make a name for themselves by getting  the guy  over there on top of the building.  If you do just make sure you meet all fed and state specs..     No I am not paranoid  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Warped]

I'd also suggest a "safety rail" around your work area.

Wouldn't want to accidently walk off the side, or even close! 


Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Warped!

Thanks Chuck!
Now, to see where Russell is.

[Chuck White]

I'd also suggest a "safety rail" around your work area.

Wouldn't want to accidently walk off the side, or even close! 


Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Warped!

Thanks Chuck!
Now, to see where Russell is.

Russell is almost Dead-Center of St Lawrence County.

It's about 130 miles North of Syracuse!

[3Dog]

Chuck White -I am so afraid of heights that I will go nowhere near the edge.  I worked as a firefighter for 25 years. Climbing ladders and standing on roofs (even wielding a chainsaw) and being up in ladder trucks never bothered me until until the emergency was over and my adrenalin was gone.  After that point in time I was glad I had rubber boots on if you know what I mean. I just couldn't show it much but, still took my share of razzing.

Backwoods Sawyer-  Thanks for the detailed information.  Makes me feel a little better about the situation.

Barney II-  Inspectors....thanks, now I feel worse than I did before Backwoods Sawyer made me feel better..

No new info today. We have been doing the "tag, your it" with the phones.

[Stephen1]

YAHOO!  What an opportunity.
Now don't let the stars get you all dizzy. As someone mentioned about money, big contractors and corporations are notorious for not paying us little guys, we have no clout or Lawyers to chase the money. I have only been in business full time for 1 year and the only problem I have getting my money, is the big guys that tell me they will send me a check. I now take a full days pay in advance before I leave my driveway, for a coporation, and a deposit of $100 from everyone else. I got tired of working for free.
I would have a lawyer draw up a contract, I would want my hourly rate of $80 per hr times 40 hr per week times 6 weeks, $20,000 in trust and released to me every Friday morning before I sawed anymore wood.
Listen to Brucer about how to itemize everything, he helped me tremendously on my 1st paying sawmill job. 100,000+ bd ft of used timbers. 250 timbers 12x16x25'
I was at the job for 6 weeks, went thru on average 10 blades a day, sometimes as many as 25 blades a couple of days. I was paid because the the money came from the owners bank account and he was a good man, and he paid every Friday at noon.
Good luck!
And remember if there are no pictures it didn't happen  :laugh:

[customsawyer]

I would cross my tees and dot my "I's" then jump all over it.

[Brad_S.]

I'll just say OMG! I can see this going wrong in so many ways.
For starters, the bigger the company the bigger the risk for the little guy! They know you see stars and bright lights but they know that they own you in so many ways.
I designed and built some golf range equipment for an international seller. I ended up working a year for free after expenses and they stole my designs! Don't tell me about patents! Again a joke for the little guy.
The only positive things I can add is if you go ahead, have "Replacement Value" stated in any contract for the mill.
Move off site and get paid as you produce.

I skimmed through all three pages looking for someone to point this out! (Edit: I see Stephen1 added the same idea)
Just a few minutes ago I talked with (well, I didn't talk, he did ALL the talking) a former masonry contractor who told me about the many times he was screwed over by large contractors. Some of the stories he told were heartbreaking.
Unless you know this large contractor is a very standup firm (name recognition means nothing...ask subs how honest they are) you may get shafted just as StimW did.
Reputable or not, there is no way I would risk having my livelihood put at risk like that.

[Privacyleech]

DO IT!!!!  8)

[Andries]

Sounds like an adventure . . .
and when you're done with that, and maybe tired of metal in the beams, there's a fresh one waiting for you:

[mikeb1079]

mikeb1079- Are you located downtown? like in the East Main St. area?  I have seen a homemade mill on a trailer in that neighborhood when I pick my wife up from work.  It always catches my attention when I see another mill. Maybe its because I know that there has to be a story behind it.

ding ding ding!   :D :D :D :D :D  yep that's me!  i've been really surprised at how many people have spotted my little homebuilt mill on our quiet little side street.  too funny.  anyways, good luck with this if it goes down!!

[Dan R]

Andries,
Your picture post is a building just off Denman Street in Vancouver is it not ?
I remember when the tree was put up on that building , it wasn't that big.
Dan

[Andries]

Yes it it.
Some poor arborist is going to get a call one of these days.
. . . and maybe a saw miller too !

[Warped]

I'd also suggest a "safety rail" around your work area.

Wouldn't want to accidently walk off the side, or even close! 



Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Warped!

Thanks Chuck!
Now, to see where Russell is.

Russell is almost Dead-Center of St Lawrence County.

It's about 130 miles North of Syracuse!

Made the loop a few years back with the wife for her work. 81 to Watertown, up towards you over to Malone and down to Saranac/ Placid then to Lake George. Very good time on her company's dime.  8). Used to hunt in the Harrisville area, town of Fine.

[OlJarhead]

Oh man this is killing me!  I'd love to see pics of this.

Good luck!

[jmouton]

that a really neat opportunity  ,   i would jump all over that ,  take lots of pictures ,  i would love to come and see it happen  but i have sawmillin to do myself here in mich ,   and its  cold here ,   0  tonight ,,



                                                                                                                   jim

[terrifictimbersllc]

I'd very much try to get the work but also would explore whether it really makes sense to complete the job up on the roof vs. at some other location the company has control of.  Just a suggestion.   See if they'll sign your sawing agreement in advance.  Guessing they won't, but maybe they will, and this will prompt them to give you their agreement.  This will probably be a boilerplate building trades contract having many paragraphs irrelevant to you in it, but which they expect you to sign, some of it conflicting with your agreement.   For example when you get paid, whether you have to add the contractor to your insurance as an "additional insured", whether they'll hold you harmless for others'  injury vs. you hold them harmless for the same, who is responsible for making sure all laws, ordinances and regulations are obeyed, and on and on.   Add whatever of their language you can go along with, to your agreement, and see if that will settle things.  Don't wait till your mill is hooked to the crane to settle this paperwork.   You won't have the luxury of being able to pack up and go home if you don't like what's unfolding.  Best you will be able to do is stage a rooftop "sit-in".   

[Delawhere Jack]

Ride the mill up to the roof, just be sure to bring along a cowboy hat to wave around it they drop it/you!



 

Sounds like a really cool opportunity, lots of good advice posted here to CYA.

[Warped]

I'd very much try to get the work but also would explore whether it really makes sense to complete the job up on the roof vs. at some other location the company has control of.  Just a suggestion.   See if they'll sign your sawing agreement in advance.  Guessing they won't, but maybe they will, and this will prompt them to give you their agreement.  This will probably be a boilerplate building trades contract having many paragraphs irrelevant to you in it, but which they expect you to sign, some of it conflicting with your agreement.   For example when you get paid, whether you have to add the contractor to your insurance as an "additional insured", whether they'll hold you harmless for others'  injury vs. you hold them harmless for the same, who is responsible for making sure all laws, ordinances and regulations are obeyed, and on and on.   Add whatever of their language you can go along with, to your agreement, and see if that will settle things.  Don't wait till your mill is hooked to the crane to settle this paperwork.   You won't have the luxury of being able to pack up and go home if you don't like what's unfolding.  Best you will be able to do is stage a rooftop "sit-in".

Good advice.
I'm sure the mill will attract a lot of attention from other workers as well. I'd take the time and disable it at days end and even remove the blade. People can get nosey and "touchy"

[3Dog]

Just a quick update....well,I dont really have an update.  Some of the parties involved (as some forum members have cautioned)are not convinced that they want a mill on the roof.  We also seem to be about 3 "stories" apart regarding what this project will cost them for the 12,000 lineal feet.  Nobody has backed out yet but, I will continue to let you know whether this sawing job will get off the ground or not.

Again, and again, thanks for all of the informative advice and belly laughs I received reading your posts.

[Hookpilot]

I work in the Defense contracting world and Firm Fixed Price contracts are common. If it is as difficult to get paid by some of these companies as others have suggested; and I have no reason to doubt them, you may want to see if they will go for a FFP contract. Make sure you have it laid out very clear what they want in writing and bid that to them as one cost. Give yourself about 15-20% above what you think it will cost you for risk. Have them pay 50% up front and put the rest in escrow with your attorney. They cant say no if you don't ask. The upside is if you are more efficient you make more money. The downside is if you have a lot of issues come up you will not make as much, that is what the 15 -20% risk is for. The only way I would do this is if I could see the beams so I knew exactly what I was getting into and then had a very clear contract which said exactly what you were expected to do. Just my two cents.

As someone said they may have a very detailed contract they want you to sign. I worked for one of the major helicopter manufacturers and needed my office painted in southern Alabama. The company wanted to send a 17 page contract; the painter didn't have a fax or an email account for that matter. We got it worked out but large companies can be painful with their policies and procedures.

[Evergreen Man]

I don't know a lot about sawing but I do know a lot about cranes and working in high places. Don't worry about your mill it will survive the flight fine. Couple words of caution tho  Make sure there will be low wind the day of the flight, crack of dawn is usually the best time for no wind. Make sure they tie a rope to the mill to keep it from spinning. Is the saw dust an issue? If the roof has no parapet wall to block some wind and they have neighbours around the buildings they might get complaints.

Money wise, I've never seen a big construction company pay any money if they don't feel they have to.
Have fun! ;D

[Chuck White]

Another thing to have in your contract is "Clean-up"!

Make sure that sawdust and slab removal isn't your responsibility.

[StimW]

I work in the Defense contracting world and Firm Fixed Price contracts are common. If it is as difficult to get paid by some of these companies as others have suggested; and I have no reason to doubt them, you may want to see if they will go for a FFP contract. Make sure you have it laid out very clear what they want in writing and bid that to them as one cost. Give yourself about 15-20% above what you think it will cost you for risk. Have them pay 50% up front and put the rest in escrow with your attorney. They cant say no if you don't ask. The upside is if you are more efficient you make more money. The downside is if you have a lot of issues come up you will not make as much, that is what the 15 -20% risk is for. The only way I would do this is if I could see the beams so I knew exactly what I was getting into and then had a very clear contract which said exactly what you were expected to do. Just my two cents.

As someone said they may have a very detailed contract they want you to sign. I worked for one of the major helicopter manufacturers and needed my office painted in southern Alabama. The company wanted to send a 17 page contract; the painter didn't have a fax or an email account for that matter. We got it worked out but large companies can be painful with their policies and procedures.

For starters no company will pay 50% up front. Fact is they haven't been paid yet.
I had to wait 2 years for a final $200. from a customer and that was a federal Building construction and a national company. (Owners had their own jet!)
I hate to come off so negative in this discussion but I have been involved in some of these pit-falls.

[3Dog]

Well folks, I haven't posted any updates because well, I dont have any to pass on.  I think the adventure is over.  I have to thank all of you for sharing in enthusiasm and daydreaming that event potential job carried with it. When I saw Stumpy on Monday, he even said that he would come help me if I got the job!  Makes me wish that I would have gotten the job just to have the opportunity to work with him.

[gimpy]

I just finished reading this thread. Interesting.

Even though it doesn't seem to be an issue anymore, here are my thoughts;

I wouldn't have made it a big deal. Just another job as far as they're concerned. Nothing like appearing like a green horn with a new toy. It would have been straightforward. Hourly (regular hourly rate plus 20%) for x number of hours per day and x number of days per week. Paid every week at the end of each week. I'd have had an advance for 10 boxes of new blades for a ready supply. I'd have been paid at the regular hourly rate for getting it on the roof and set-up from the time I arrived on sight. They'd pay $25 replacement cost for each blade destroyed by artifacts. They'd be responsible for clean up and leftover debris. They'd still pay me for any days that my access to my workstation was shutdown unexpectedly. Lifting the mill to the roof isn't a bid deal. My mill is subjected to more trauma driving on the road than by the lift. It is a Wood-Mizer after all. All of the above would be in a contract and the advance would be paid upon signing.

I'd have insisted on applying a tape (Duct tape?) or painted barrier around the mill with the understanding that no one but me and any helper I supply was allowed inside the line. Professional safety concerns.

Approach these jobs like it's just another job to you and few problems would arise. The cost of this job would be a trifle amount for the company hiring you. Unless they saw you as unprofessional. This is when I'd have Wood-Mizer apparel on at each meeting and each day of work. No funny tee shirts and old baggy blue jeans on this job.

[so il logger]

I just want to say that im not trying to start an argument. That being said are portable mills profitable? Around my area if its not a big stationary circle mill then its not a production oriented operation. Around here moving a mill is a mighty big task. Some farmers have woodmizers and such but i think they saw for personal use. If i can make money tinkering with a lil mill during off months i would take a look at one. Just curious on what i could expect far as footage daily.

[dgdrls]

I just want to say that im not trying to start an argument. That being said are portable mills profitable? Around my area if its not a big stationary circle mill then its not a production oriented operation. Around here moving a mill is a mighty big task. Some farmers have woodmizers and such but i think they saw for personal use. If i can make money tinkering with a lil mill during off months i would take a look at one. Just curious on what i could expect far as footage daily.

Good Morning  so il logger,

Good question,  I suggest you post it to the board as a new discussion thread.

best
DGDrls

[4x4American]

nevermind asked about update then saw up there

[78NHTFY]

3Dog--interesting thread.  Might be good to find out why you did not get the job, so that next time you know whether to either pass (and not waste your time) or do what's needed to snag it.  All the best, Rob.

[Danbeck]

I would NOT have done it, though it sounded like an awesome adventure. I'm in northern VT. Roofs around here are designed for a snowload of 80-120 pounds/sq-ft. Just setting the sawmill on the roof with 3 contact points would punch holes - you'd have about 2000 pounds/sq-ft at each of two points. No place would invest triple the $ so they could possibly, someday use the roof as a mill yard. I would have had them truck the beams offsite somewhere - then you could have packed up and driven away if any issues came up. Glad you came out of this unscathed....   Dan "The Fowl Sawyer"