Pricing chart

[towboat88]

I've been charging hourly for milling so far an was wondering if anybody's ever charged by the log?
Usually get one to six logs dropped off to mill an its on a cut to when I can bases. So I've been kicking around the idea of changing by the log an absorbing the time factor. Given I have a manual mill slows down the production even with all the necessary equipment for the log handling.

 

[Magicman]

I can understand your thinking but your overlaps need adjusting ie:

Is a 24" X 14' 6" log $100 or $200?

[towboat88]

I can understand your thinking but your overlaps need adjusting ie:

Is a 24" X 14' 6" log $100 or $200?

Yeah I'm definitely going to have to do some tweaking here an there. Thanks for catching that Magicman. 

[Southside]

What about just going to a board foot of log sawn rate. You could have a couple of rates to allow for different size categories which accounts for the extra time factor of larger logs given the manual mill. 

Even with a hydraulic mill large logs get to a point where they are slower to saw than ideal sized ones. 

[brianJ]

Sounds like you are trying to complicate something that is already working efficiently

[WV Sawmiller]

   I have said several times on this forum I read about some member using a "per log" fee and I remain intrigued by it. What I am looking for is an easy method for the customer to know in advance exactly what it is going to cost him to get his logs sawed and is easy for the sawyer to calculate and still make decent money and always wondered if this was the way.

  The unsolved problems I see are clearly defining the length and diameter rules so the customer and the sawyer can quickly and consistently measure and determine the rates/fees to be paid.

TB88 - your chart looks like a good start but I think it needs more categories and related prices. Ideally the customer or sawyer should be able to quickly measure the log and mark/paint a price on each.

  I have met sawyers who scale every log before sawing and write the estimated bf on a chart. If the log produces better than estimate, the customer wins and the sawyer gets reasonable compensation but no extra reward. If it produces less, the customer loses but sawyer still gets decent wages and is not penalized. It is a fair system, as are all systems as long as discussed, understood, agreed to and followed.

  Good luck. I'd love to see your next draft and let us know how it works if you implement this as your sawing policy.

[towboat88]

  I have said several times on this forum I read about some member using a "per log" fee and I remain intrigued by it. What I am looking for is an easy method for the customer to know in advance exactly what it is going to cost him to get his logs sawed and is easy for the sawyer to calculate and still make decent money and always wondered if this was the way.

 The unsolved problems I see are clearly defining the length and diameter rules so the customer and the sawyer can quickly and consistently measure and determine the rates/fees to be paid.

TB88 - your chart looks like a good start but I think it needs more categories and related prices. Ideally the customer or sawyer should be able to quickly measure the log and mark/paint a price on each.

 I have met sawyers who scale every log before sawing and write the estimated bf on a chart. If the log produces better than estimate, the customer wins and the sawyer gets reasonable compensation but no extra reward. If it produces less, the customer loses but sawyer still gets decent wages and is not penalized. It is a fair system, as are all systems as long as discussed, understood, agreed to and followed.

 Good luck. I'd love to see your next draft and let us know how it works if you implement this as your sawing policy.

Very well stated. Thats what I'm looking for! It's not so much for me but the customer. Clear an to the point.

[Magicman]

I have cross checked my bf vs hourly rates many times and bf wins out enough that I will stay with it. 

I do not charge for sawing stickers and usually have a reject stack that I do not scale.  These are boards that may have wane, too many knots, or otherwise less than satisfactory.  I fully realize that it ain't my fault and I did saw them, but I don't scale junk.  Often some of those rejects will go back onto the sawmill to be sawn into additional stickers as the job progresses.

In 19 years of sawing I have never had a customer to question an invoice.

[Pepe_Silvia]

Doesn't sawing by the board foot make your $/hr more variable?  You'll be spending about twice as much time sawing 4/4 as 8/4, but getting paid the same right?

[Southside]

To some extent yes, but it gives the customer an exact dollar amount, and I base my rate off my 4/4 ability. So if I am sawing 8/4 I am ahead of where I need to be, gives me the option of reducing the bill should I feel it's appropriate. 

Going to get a lot of resistance if you try to raise a bill because it took you longer than planned. 

[davch00]

I like your idea. While I generally don't saw for one other than myself, I do have people ask from time to time, how much to saw x amount of whatever from a log that y amount big? Living in an area that doesn't have any woods to speak of, I get a deer in the headlights look when I say at least $0.30 a bf, maybe more, depends on what your log looks like.  

[moodnacreek]

That would be fine if you lived in a pine plantation. I my world there are too many different 'kinds' of logs.

[WV Sawmiller]

Doesn't sawing by the board foot make your $/hr more variable?  You'll be spending about twice as much time sawing 4/4 as 8/4, but getting paid the same right?

Yes as mentioned by SS but sawing by the hour makes the bf/hr change as does sawing different kinds and sizes of logs. The problem for the customer is estimating his cost and budgeting his time and money. There is no exact method unless any of you quote a per job rate. With a bf rate I can give my customer my business card with a 1/4" Int'l Scale and tell them how to use it and they can estimate the yield and cost. With good straight logs he will get/pay more. With poor logs he will get/pay less. For those who charge by the hour the first question the customer is always going to ask is "How many bf do you saw per hour?". We have to be able to give him a range and hope that satisfies him. 

[YellowHammer]

When I was doing custom sawing, I scaled every log and gave a total price base on Doyle scale.  I didn't try to explain the scale, just "here's your estimated yield and this is what it will cost."  Then I would say, if I don't hit yield, and run out of logs, you don't pay.  Or do you want me to stop sawing when I hit the quoted yield and price?  Or do you want me to keep going?  Most would say keep going up to a limit, but a few would say to stop when I hit the quoted price, or their target yield.

Scaling logs is fast and I don't think I ever missed Doyle yield.

[customsawyer]

Every now and then I get the question if 8/4 or timbers is cheaper to saw than 4/4. No it is not. It takes just as long to load the log and they have just as many slab cuts. The larger lumber and timbers are harder to handle, so the price stays the same. If it is many different size timbers I will add a little to the price. This is because it takes time to find the right size logs and they are a pain to stack in a bundle that has to fit on a truck.

[Magicman]

I saw by the bf and I scale framing lumber the same regardless of the actual size.  Remember that I am selling a service and not lumber.  For example I saw "2X4's' at several different actual dimensions depending upon what the customer wants.  1½X3½, 1½X4, or 2X4 are all scaled as 2X4's and the price is the same.  Same with 2X6's, 8's, 10's or 12's.

I am not making suggestions for anyone else nor defending my scaling method.  Just telling what has been successful for me for 19 years without a single customer's question regarding scaling or invoicing.

I finished sawing a 13,907bf job this past week and out of curiosity I compared my bf sawing rate to hourly rate.  My bf rate was $28 less than hourly rate would have been.  I will continue to price my sawing by the bf.  ;D

[Walnut Beast]

Just curious Magicman what's your board ft rate

[Walnut Beast]

Just curious Magicman what's your board ft rate

And hourly rate out in your neck of the woods 

[Magicman]

My hourly rate is $75 per hour.  The bf rate depends upon the job size, cut list, and location and ranges from $300 to $350 per Mbf.  My minimum is $300 plus travel & setup.

I always listen to the customer's description of what he has and what he wants before quoting any rates; hourly or bf.  I very seldom make a pre-sawing visit but I do ask for pictures.

I have two jobs scheduled for next week; A 2 log Oak (minimum) job for Monday and a 16 log SYP framing lumber job for Tuesday which may get into Wednesday.

[Walnut Beast]

Thanks Magicman. I was just curious what you guys that are custom sawing are charging in different areas 👍

[Larry]

If your charging by the board foot and scale logs using Doyle that's a huge discount to the customer on logs 20" and under.  I would never charge this way.

Slabs are a pain to scale so I have started to charge by scaling the logs International.  With the split, crooked, crotch and hollow logs I saw, International is close to what I actually cut.  I tracked about 40 logs in excell to make sure. For an individual log it might be over or short but it will average out close after a few logs.

I'll also saw grade lumber on International if the customer wants.  I've not tracked that real close, but it seems hard to make scale unless the logs are good.

[Peter Drouin]

I charge,.35 a BF Pine/ hemlock  Hardwood is.45 a BF
I add up the lumber when I'm done If a full 2x4 5.3 BF if it 11/2x31/2  3.5 BF is how I add it up. That way the customer knows just what he's getting.
All the same big beams or 1" $40 for a blade. I like Yellowhammers Idear with the 5ga bucket thing. If it fits it's too small. Then it's $125.00 an hour and I will cut whatever you want. :D :D
And you bring the logs to me.


 


 

[Ricker]

I saw at $65 an hour if the logs are small(less than 12" on the small end), dirty or crooked.  Logs over 12" it's $.30 be it 4/4 or 12x12 beams. And you bring the logs to me. I am kind of stuck at these prices as there are 3 Amish operations within 5 miles of me and they are sawing at .20 or .25 depending on the size of the job.  
I do have to figure out something better on metal strikes.  I get $25.00 per blade, I have always figured the digging out of the metal so you can continue sawing would just come out in the wash.  
I am rethinking that as I finished a 7200 bf job today and had 9 strikes, that's a lot of extra time digging out nails, lag bolts and the occasional stuck diving blade.

[Peter Drouin]

Ricker. I did not know they were job-killing Amish sawmills in Maine. Maybe get them to cut your logs and just sell the lumber. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   I saw for $.30/bf "normal" sawing/normal logs, $60/hr for small (Under approximately 12" diameter) logs, specialty or short (under 8') logs. $1 mile (1 way/1 time) mobilization fee if I move the mill and $300 minimum fee if I travel - no minimum if they bring the log to me. $25 blade fee if I hit metal. Customer provides labor to off-bear and help load logs.

    Scaling of lumber is actual size so a dimensional 2X6 is billed at 1.5"X5.5". Anything under 1" thick is scaled as 1". No difference in rate between hardwood and softwood.

     I may waive the mileage or minimum in some cases if I feel led. I don't bill hourly for 1-2 small or short logs but if they are the norm I do.