Pricing help??

[gator gar]

Just called a guy that had e-mailed me about cutting his logs. He said he wanted his boards cut 3/8s of an inch thick by 12 inches wide. He said the Mayor usually cuts for him, but is bowed up right now. He mentioned that a Woodmizer wasn't all that accurate and said the mayor that usuall cuts his wood, done it cheap. He also said he wanted it cut this week-end. I wouldn't even know how to charge cutting boards that thin. He wants them out of hardwood that has been cut down and laying since last winter. I told him the Mayor would be his best bet and I'm sorry he is bowed up at the moment. 

How would you charge on something like this. My Woodmizer cuts very accurate lumber, BUT, it ain't cheap.

Mark

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

I don't have a mill myself but as I understand it, most sawyers would either charge their standard hourly rate or would charge by the BF but when calculating treat each board as if it was 4/4 instead of 3/8. So a 3/8" x 12" x 8' board would be said to be 8 BF, not 3 BF...

Sounds like he should get the Mayor to cut it for him  8)

Herb

[paul case]

who does he think he is anyhow? if a potential customer insults me once i recomend they look elsewhere for their sawing. i get a little irratated when someone wants it done now,acurately , and cheap. gator, dont sell yourself short. too much of the time you couldnt make them happy anyway so let the Mayor, whoever that is worry about him.
he wants to just buy the lumber from your logs right? make him pay up front. if he is real he will and if not you just saved yourself a whole bunch of trouble.
he isnt a relative is he?   :D :D :D  pc

[Magicman]

100% what Herb said.  Since it's been down since last Winter, then you would probably be dealing with some rot.  Hourly rate only in that case.  If the Mayor is cheaper, then the Mayor knows what his sawing is worth.

[gator gar]

This ol boy didn't sound like the most friendly person in the world. Kind of demanding in his own way. Maybe the Mayor isn't really busy at all, he might just not want to cut his wood. I'm laid off and don't want to cut it.

[brdmkr]

I think I'd let the mayor have that one as well.

[r.man]

Gator, my first instinct was to say charge high and if you get the job you could afford to put up with the jerk but I don't think it would be worth it. You have probably done the best thing from a business point of view but I would side with Paul in wanting to just show him the door. Oh who am I kidding I would want to be downright rude back to the idiot but I'm always out of practice because the majority of people I meet are polite and nice. I always think of the witty replies the next day or later.

[DouginUtah]

I think I'd let the mayor have that one as well.

I'd have a conversation with the mayor. I bet it would be interesting.  :D

[Buck]

Let this one go.....You wont be sorry

[WDH]

You are better off not dealing with some people no matter the price.

[Chuck White]

Just like the others have said.  A half inch cut is billed the same as an inch cut.

In other words, a board that is ½" X 6" X 2' = 1 board foot.

[beenthere]

...........  A half inch cut is billed the same as an inch cut.

In other words, a board that is ½" X 6" X 2' = 1 board foot.

Well, measured the same as 1", but not necessarily billed the same.
Billing sawing cost by the board foot basis usually adjusts for the grief and extra labor. 

[red oaks lumber]

i'd say sir  i can't do it until 3 weeks from now, i charge $90/ hr. (or whatever) if that works for you fine. if not , thanks for cheching with me.
i have people all the time trying to demand things ,and they are uassully fine with the dates i give them.

[Brucer]

When I saw a customer's logs, I set out the conditions in advance ...
  - $0.xx amount per board foot sawn, regardless of quality.
  - I measure by the NLGA rules (Canadian standard).
  - The customer gets the logs to the mill and deals with all waste.
  - The customer sorts by thickness, width, and length, all ends flush.

If the customer wants stuff less than 1" thick, I point out NLGA rule 26 for thin lumber - "the number of board feet equals the product of the nominal width in feet by the length in feet."

The NLGA rules apply to softwood lumber -- I'm sure the US has similar rules for both softwood and hardwood.

I've found it especially useful to have a copy of the rule book on hand. Some customers want to make a big issue of it, even after they've agreed to your conditions.

[captain_crunch]

Bid Job 2.5 times higher than standard price ifn he runs good thing ifn he don't you get extra for his bs. As with the 3/8 BS takes same amount of time, energy and effort to make same cut in 2" So this would become Specility Cutting in me book and worth more money

[Magicman]

All of these issues are valid reasons to always sign a "saw contract" before starting any job.   smiley_contract

And then if/when a question comes up.   smiley_contract_point

[ARKANSAWYER]

  I charge for sawing any thing less then 1 inch as 1 inch.  Since I am not charging for the amount of wood but the amount of work to produce each board.  Thicker lumber does not really save me any work but the heavyer lumber makes handeling harder.

[sigidi]

So if the Mayor is so good, he should use him... :

[J_T]

Fire that customer before you get him  ;D Some things just aren't worth the pain . Or that has been my experience   ;D 

[Jim_Rogers]

I charge extra for thinner stuff. It takes more cuts to make thinner stuff and more cuts means more fuel, more time, you got to get paid for what you do, and what it costs.

Years ago, a customer who I cut out an entire truck barn for, brought me in another load of 16' long logs. He wanted me to mill them up into 8x8' 10' long. I told him that he should have brought me 10' long logs, and that I was going to charge him extra to cut 6' off all his logs and dispose of the end pieces.

He said he would come over and cut off all the logs and haul out all the end pieces. He then told me he wasn't going to pay my regular rate per board-foot for cutting beams as it was less work then sawing boards. He also told me he wasn't going to pay for all the side lumber coming off the beams either as he didn't want any of that, at that time.

His logs are still sitting here, not sawn.

[r.man]

If a customer didn't want to pay for side lumber from a beam log you could just cut four large slabs couldn't you? Or possibly the side lumber could belong to the sawyer with the beams charged seperately at a reasonable bf rate if the side lumber was unwanted and therefore otherwise going to be a waste slab.

[Cedarman]

rman, I am thinking like you.  I understand the guy wanting to get the wood sawn cheaper.  From his point of view he thinks there is less work sawing an 8x8x10 then sawing the whole thing into lumber.  If the logs would produce nice side lumber, then that would be lumber at a bargain price.   The 6' pieces might make a lot of nice short lumber depending on which end of the log was cut off.  It is no different than sawing rr ties and the owner of the log doesn't want any side lumber.  Not having seen the logs and not being there, I am just guessing at this point.  Unusual situations may result in unusual opportunities.

[r.man]

Exactly Cedarman, I am not trying to be critical of how Jim handled his customer but I wonder if he could turn the situation to his advantage in the future by having a system in place where certain criteria have to be met to qualify for a good beam rate. It would have to be to his advantage to do it or why bother but I think a lot of the time it would keep a potential future customer happy and make the sawyer at least his normal rate or better. Maybe the sawyers out there with similar experiences will weigh in and give us some first hand examples of solutions.

[Warren]

g.g,

Had a feller like that when I first started sawing.  Friend of a neighbor. Said he had half a dozen "huge" cherry trees he was getting ready to take down. Asked if I was interested in sawing them out for him ?  I said "Sure".  He said a sawyer close to his house would do it for half of my price.  I "politely" told him that he needed to continue to take the logs to the sawyer close to his house.  Never saw him again.  Never lost any sleep over it.

Learned a long time ago that "bad business" is worse than "no business".

-w-

[Jim_Rogers]

If a customer didn't want to pay for side lumber from a beam log you could just cut four large slabs couldn't you?

Well, yes, I guess I could have. But there are two problems in doing that for me. First of all it is a waste of wood, when there are good boards or planks on the sides of these beams, which I know he's going to need to build his house. Secondly, I have to carry this off the log on the mill, to the backhoe bucket to transport off to the dump truck to be hauled out or just moved off the log and mill so that I can keep sawing. If the piece is heavy then I can't personally lift it alone. If I could lift it then how many of these can I do in a day, until I'm so tired or hurt and can't do it any more? I'd rater lift off four (lite weight) boards than one heavy 4x?x10 or thicker.

Or possibly the side lumber could belong to the sawyer with the beams charged seperately at a reasonable bf rate if the side lumber was unwanted and therefore otherwise going to be a waste slab.

This of course is also a possibility, if you have some where or some customer who wants them.

I can't invest a lot of time, and fuel money, processing logs to make lumber that is just going to sit here, hoping that some day someone will come by and buy it.

To me there is a difference between a lumber yard and a sawmill. Some people who drive in here don't see that or understand it.

To me a lumber yard is some place who has lumber for sale and you can drive in, pay for it, pick it up and drive right out.

A sawmill is a place where you order your lumber, it is milled out to your size specs and then you go get it and pay for it. Receiving it as "green" lumber.

I operate a sawmill, not a lumber yard. I can't afford to stack every possible size of lumber that a standard lumber yard does, in the quantities that a lumber yard has.

I do sell lumber from time to time but each order is custom made for the customer.
Mostly, I saw out the customers logs for them to the sizes of lumber they need for their projects.

And after all the dealings I had with this customer in sawing out his 40x50 truck garage, I wasn't about to start a new project, doing it (in my opinion) wrong.

He wanted to build a new house for himself. He didn't even have a design done or a set of plans, stock list or site. He just wanted me to make up these timbers for him for some future use. To me that was somewhat of a bad deal. I had the feeling that it didn't matter what I did, he wasn't going to be satisfied.

He did build a house, but not the type he first mentioned to me, he build a log house.

Oh, well, that's the story.

Jim Rogers

[paul case]

i have had some of these kind of deals go wrong myself.

one man brought me some logs when he picked up an order, and placed another order. 8 months after completing his second order i sold it to a walk in for 1/2 price. i havent heard from the man going on 2 years now. he complained about the other guys he had saw some  stuff for him, they were too slow.

the bottom line is you never know unless past experience tells you.

i have learned that people always want the best deal they can get. if someone brought me 16' logs and wanted 10' beams out of them, and i thought they would pay(maybe i would let the put a deposit down if i thought they wouldnt) i would saw them . i tell people that i charge by the bd ft or the hour, which ever is cheaper. btw i try to keep some options open for the side lumber .  like box material. on a deal like that i might make as much on the sides than on his beams.

the bottom line is you just never know unless past experience tells you.

happy independence day youall.  pc

[r.man]

Jim, sounds like you did the right thing for your situation and my suggestions wouldn't be practical for you. Thanks for the clarification, it's always interesting to know how others operate their businesses. I guess I have been reading too much about others that do keep inventory and not thinking about the whole manual labour aspect of the large slabs.

[customsawyer]

Since I have cut alot of big timbers I will offer my 2 cents worth in here. Yes cutting timbers is faster than cutting boards but you have extra time in handling them or the cost of extra equipment to handle them so it don't matter much which way you go at it you still have extra cost that you will have to be paid for.

[paul case]

those large slabs are extra work and take extra time, so does dirt and rocks in the bark,sharpening blades turning extra big logs,bucking logs to length,and banding bundles of lumber. sometimes even customer relations take considerable extra time.

these should all be taken into account when charging by the bd/ft or by the hour.

btw when i figured  the bd ft charge against by the hour with all he extra handling bd ft is almost always cheaper.  pc