The Forestry Forum

We are going to look at a used Lull on Thursday afternoon.  It evidently got a new crate Cummins 4BT a year ago.  I know  many of you have a lot more experience with construction equipment than we do.  Which things would you consider to be deal breakers on a used machine and what things would you expect would be tolerable repairs?  We plan to use it to move logs and stacks of wood in our part time sawing.  Thank you for your input.

Which model is it and how old is it?  Overall condition?  I have a 644 and just bought a 1044 that will be a bit of a project.  The 644 did take some work to make it correct, but I knew that when I bought her. Both are from the 90's and are actually pretty easy to work on, but some parts can be hard to source. Tires are not cheap, you want them loaded for sure and that adds to the cost.  

I did build a quick tack / skid steer for mine that makes swapping forks, bucket, bale squeeze, a breeze and put fluid power to the front as well so I can run low flow skid steer attachments on it too.  

How many spools of hose did that take jim?  



Biggest thing that gets neglected on any wheeled iron is brakes.  Be sure it can be parked without rolling down into the woods.  We had a really ancient lull but i doubt youre looking at one of that vintage.  4bt is an exceptional engine. 

Oh she has used plenty of hose. Got real good at rebuilding cylinders along the way too. The brakes on those are internal and a real pain to repair. Adding a hydraulic caliper to the parking disc will be my solution when and if it becomes necessary. 

Hmm, lots of stuff. Planetaries in the hubs, fluid, growl. The tranny is a 3 or 4 speed gearbox with a torque converter and automatic parts, I'd check level and smell. Those Funk tranny's are built to shift under full power, I don't but I might to check one. Pick up a load, boom it out and back and notice the extend/retract is running true, slide the carriage fore and aft, fore gives good engine bay access on our old 644. There are welds where someone must have tried to blow that sliding carriage out the rear. Tilt to the side with the load up and shut down, does everything hold, tight cylinder packings and functioning counterbalance (load check) valves. Look at it from a distance, has it rolled.

This 644 has disc brakes on the driveshafts front and rear with a second manually operated caliper on the fronts for parking. Single bowl master cylinder with the cap on the floorboard between my feet, that's dead simple on an old '80's machine but leaves a lot to be desired as far as braking force.

Then I'd start looking for cracks near cylinders.

I'm not sure of the year or the model but it is a n 8k machine.  It is only 20 minutes away so it should be worth a look.  Most of what we've been seeing over the past six months is out of our price range.  Thank you for all of the tips for checking out this machine.  

I'm a little apprehensive about buying an older machine with as many hydraulic parts as a telehandler but I would like to stay away from the newer diesels.

I've had a few repairs on my machine. One of the worst was when one of the side tilt cylinders came unthreaded inside while I had a load up clearing a log truck. No way to check that unless you take the cylinders apart. They aren't that much different then most any other kind of machine. Look at the overall maintenance of the machine and it will tell you if it was taken care of. 

I never had the yard space for a telehandler. The best sawmill machine would be an articulated; forks/bucket. After that big wheel forklifts can be good.

Once you can stretch out over a stack of lumber or two and grab one behind it you never look back at a wheel loader.  

I've used most of the options at a mill for log and lumber handling, and a Lull is easily my favorite. A Lull will move where a payloader won't. 

A telehandler is a nice piece of equipment to have around. In my area most of the older ones have been rode hard and put up wet. Had a buddy bought a old Lull five or six years ago to help put up a couple all steel buildings on his farm. He looked and looked for a nice older model and just didn't find much. Finally bought one off a estate sale. He has ended up with a fair amount of money in it and should have just spend more up front and bought a newer one. He now has so much money in it he couldn't sell it and come out. Which was he plan in the start to get the buildings up and sell it. 

sorry doug but im in camp telehandler for small places. i have owned 4 wheel steer and articulated.  the yard must be designed for a wheel loader.  the yard that isnt designed at all, is for a lull.  we had one in a residential backyard and it was like an elephant in a broom closet but always got in and out with ease.  same at the junkyard.. the zoomboom went where the wheel loader couldnt.  didnt pick the same weight, but in that application getting to the junk someone is standing there wanting to buy thats 6 pallets deep without moving them all was what counted.  

I stopped by and took a look at the Lull on the way home.  It turned out to be at a repair yard.  The owner had another guy put it on CL.  The repair yard folks offered me a cold water and told me the owner evidently was not too interested in fixing it properly.  The repair yard folks have been using it.  In its day I'm sure it was a great machine and with some work it could be again but we have enough projects.  We may go to Homosassa and look at a smaller JCB that is supposed to have low hours and be in really good shape.  The smaller one should fit on my bumper pull trailer and get around in tighter spots but won't lift like the Lull or extend nearly as far.

pics of the Lull  
nice tires, boom seems to work well

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tilt cylinder leaks and upper bushing is worn(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/D372FB8E-4046-4B40-954C-590E3F123A7D.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1634758037)
 
McGyver had been into the wiring.  It starts with a screwdriver jumping across the solinoid and the hour meter continuously ticks on(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/58A23A24-93CD-4F14-A5F3-A1BCE8C64A7B.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1634758047)
 
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the rear drive shaft was absent, the transmission didn not have third gear (supposedly a solenoid issue), and the pinion shaft/seal seemed to need some love (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22883/F283D2D8-1FAA-4050-BCB6-F04E09E4EA83.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1634758055)
 
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I can tolerate a few leaks and drips (I have several old Broncos) but this one seems to need more work than we have time to put into it for the asking price.

Thank you to all who have provided guidance and I'm open to opinions on the smaller 2009 JCB 520-40 with a Perkins 50 hp (2300 hours), with bucket, forks, all steering functions but no frame tilt.  

I've absorbed my quota of conditioned air and need to go sticker stack pine that a customer did not pick up.
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Quote from: caveman on October 20, 2021, 04:26:15 PMbut no frame tilt

I have an old (1986?) SkyTrak 9038.  Rode hard, put up wet.  I use the crap out of it doing dirt and rock work so it's taken a hard beating from me as well.  Love the side/frame tilt on my steep land.  Its just a reflex with me to level my seat.  I just got a Ford 545D FEL so life will get easier for the SkyTrak.  Driving the FEL around I reach for the non-existent lever all the time.  I feel like I'm about to roll the tractor all the time - very unnerving!

Thing to remember about telehandlers is that a steer knuckle is a steer knuckle and those booms are a lot of leverage on a front steer knuckle .  So if you need a big one get a big one.  A wheel loader has a straight steel axle tube in a straight steel frame.  You can bounce them down the staircase with a load that makes the rears float and theyll be fine so small and mid size ones can generally do more than you think without breaking hard parts. 

So major pieces are missing, and someone else's dirty hands have tried to fix it in creative ways, and the owner doesn't think it's worth the cost to repair it properly. Hmm... that's when I would get back in the truck, close the door, start the motor, and wave bye - bye. smiley_wavy

Quote from: moodnacreek on October 20, 2021, 08:53:15 AM
I never had the yard space for a telehandler. The best sawmill machine would be an articulated; forks/bucket. After that big wheel forklifts can be good.

I really don't understand why so many want to keep trying to re-invent the wheel by insisting that a telehandler/skid-steer, or backhoe is the ideal sawmill loader. Most full time sawmills have those machines for odd jobs but I have yet to see a full time commercial sawmill that didn't rely on articulated wheel loaders.

I would agree that for a mill that moves logs all day long and has ample space then a big wheel loader is the ticket. That same mill likely also has a separate off road fork truck for moving lumber stacks. But for the guy with less space and or wants one machine to do it all you just can't beat a telehandler. 

I have used farm tractors, my Lull, and had a 250 Komatsu loader for a couple of years. That was a sweet machine, but like a T Rex, strong with short arms. Ride control was amazing, no wheel hop at all, until one day the nitrogen cartridge failed at 25 MPH. That was a ride.

@caveman (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=12883) just curious what was the guy asking for it? 

$16k, but my plan was to take a pocketful of green dollars and try to deal if it was what we were looking for. 

I would be apprehensive with a JCB machine personally. I have a powershift from a small telehandler torn down currently and some parts for an 8 year old machine are unavailable or not serviced separately. The dealer insists the only way to fix it is buy a reman from them and use this as a core. At the cost of their reman transmission it puts the machine at the tipping point as far as scrap.

Edit: should add this isn't the first time I've had issues with JCB parts, from unavailability to long wait times.

Quote from: mike_belben on October 20, 2021, 11:29:51 AM
sorry doug but im in camp telehandler for small places. i have owned 4 wheel steer and articulated.  the yard must be designed for a wheel loader.  the yard that isnt designed at all, is for a lull.  we had one in a residential backyard and it was like an elephant in a broom closet but always got in and out with ease.  same at the junkyard.. the zoomboom went where the wheel loader couldnt.  didnt pick the same weight, but in that application getting to the junk someone is standing there wanting to buy thats 6 pallets deep without moving them all was what counted.  

Problem is you have never been here. Those DT 360's w/ twin turbos blow up coming up from the Delaware :D. I have delivered to job sites that unloaded me with one. I have 2 10,000 lbs forklifts and they can get stuck on a banana peel but they are fast and handle more than you should pick up. Anyway I have a poor yard and more machines than i can take care and oh yeah, you got any Rotella? Your ever critical  buddy, Doug

We have been advised by a reputable mechanic to buy a lift with an inline engine/transmission.We had 2 older JCB's that had the engine over top the transmission and they both had transmission failures.Now u can't go by just 2 machines but according to this mechanic it is much more common to have tranny troubles with these vs an inline arrangement.The stacked configuration allows for shorter machines which is nice on a crowded job sight though.We now have a genie gth 644 which is a good machine but is much longer than the older jcb.For what it's worth 

I will admit that I have a few leaks on my telehandler too. That is how I know it still has hyd. oil in it.

How dare you short change me 106 cubic inches sir!  DT360 would not get my loaded goose up the pass @80mph no matter how many turbos you put on it.   Ive got smokies to outrun you know. 

air_plane

Keep the advice coming. We are going to look at another one today. It'll probably turn out to be a JCB. The guy left the key in it for us to check it out. He won't be there.  I want to ensure parts are available for whatever we get. I rarely get rid of anything.

We did go look at the JCB.  It had 5800 hours, started and did everything as it should.  It is a nimble machine.  We have a couple more lined up to look at.  The transmission has evidently been replaced/upgraded.  How much blow by is acceptable in a Perkins engine?  When the oil fill cap is removed while running, there is a little noticeable.

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That fork rack will be helpful for long lumber and hurtful on small pallets like say stacked firewood thats real tight.  You wont be able to go 2 cubes deep without moving the two neighbor cubes to make clearance.  

In firewood, so what..  but when i was grabbing a specific pallet of stone 4 rows back that sometimes meant moving a dozen and drove me nuts.  

If we end up with this one or another with a fork rack like this, I'll likely make an adapter to enable it to share skid steer attachments.  The side shift forks could be useful at times.  This JCB had a shuttle shifter to the left of the steering wheel with five speed settings with the twist of the shifter handle.

Good transmission when everything is working. PIA to service and repair. Parts availability is less than ideal currently. 

Fork shifter is the berries when loading semi.  Especially on a wheel loader that needs a lot of space behind it to jog over 6 inches and still keep the load square to the rub rail. 

I really liked a lot about the JCB but the hours, enclosed cab, price and the parts/transmission advice from y'all will probably keep me looking.  This machine is about 16000 lbs and shorter in length than some of the Lulls and JLG machines that really interest me (636-642). 

Whatever we get it will probably only be run two or three hours a week.  An older, low hour machine would be ideal.    

I read last night that the Genie machines have a good reputation and they are the new Terex.

Mike, the side shift would also be handy for loading and unloading our kiln and installing the panel on the front of it between the doors.  

Our little articulated loader is about the most aggravating thing loading the kiln. I do kind of like the screen in front of the operator although its another blind spot thing. The damage to the sticks and valve on the right of the operator in ours says something fell into the cab from overhead.

Do any of you have opinions or experience with the rear steer Gradalls.  They seem to be about half of the price of the four wheel steer machines that are in similar condition.  I watched a video of one turning and it seemed to get around relatively well but we are limited in space around the mill shed.

I don't. I will say that as long as my machine is, I would not want to be without 4 wheel steer. I don't know how long those machines are.

2 wheel steer is just a forktruck and it cant do what a crab steer can do which is choose to move in something other than arcs. 4WS give you the option to move in arcs from the front, arcs from the back and linear lines from and into any direction.  

in a tight space with long stuff hanging off either side of the forks these options are critical.  buy that gradall and youll still be wanting a telehandler forever.   

Thanks, Mike and Jake.  That is what I was thinking too but, Dang, stuff has gotten expensive lately.  I think what we want is a 10-20 year old Lull that is in good shape with 4000 or less hours.  We'll have to just be patient and find one that suits our wants and budget.

I will admit that every significant purchase we have made, even after much consternation, has proved to have been a good financial move and most often reduced the physical strain and increased efficiency.

I've also been halfway looking for an older lt-40 to cut apart and make extendable to run the same length blades as a 70 wide to use exclusively for slabbing wide stuff.

present prices continue to make me glad for all the money i spent in the past. 

With new equipment getting harder and harder to get, used prices are going through the roof. Some of my older equipment that I bought new will bring more than I paid for it. Part of that is due to the demand and part of that is due to all the funds the gov. is handing out. Funds are becoming worthless.

Quote from: customsawyer on November 17, 2021, 06:23:20 AMFunds are becoming worthless.

exactly.  defective currency.  

dollar devaluing and sinking Tbill yields have caused a global dedollarization. dollars that have been out in the global savings accounts and treasuries are flying back here to be cashed out for real goods without paying a heavy exchange penalty of taking any further loss of genuine purchasing power by holding dollars for any further printing.  so yellowhammer might have shiny money but its not as shiny as say Montenegro Silver Mines LTD or Brazil Sugar Refineries Inc or the Highway Dept of Egypt who dont want one truck, one skid steer, one excavator.. they want 20.  thats why the common american is being told "we cant get it."  those are onesie twosie sales.  big fish are feeding hard in american product right now, which is superb, unloading the american dollar, which is terrible. they are getting priority. 

We are going to look at a Skytrak 6042 on Monday.  It is listed for about 2x the Gradall's price but if it pushes our buttons we may bring it home.  If any of you have any experience with this machine and have suggestions on specific things to check out, let me know.  It has a Cummins and the owner assured me the machine is in good working order (its rented out this weekend)  In the photo, the left front tire looks much more worn than the rest of them.  I am unsure of the year of this one but it should be old enough not to have a tier 4 engine.

I have a 9038 c.1984  The boom on mine runs on some big Teflon like pads.  Make sure they still have some life left in them.  Extend the boom and look for wear from the bolts that hold the pads in place.  Also check the hose pulley at the base of the boom - make sure the hoses track correctly.

Thank you, those are a couple of items that I doubt I would have thought about checking.

We went to Plant City and looked at the 642.  It had low hours, fresh paint and seemed to be a good machine but we also looked at a higher hour 639 Skytrak.  It seemed smoother(the older one).  Both had all new hoses.  It has a left front tire that leaks and over 6000 hours on a Cummins 4bt ( I unscrewed the cap on the valve cover with it running and it had a little pressure but no smoke).  The boom went out as smooth as silk.  All of the steering  configurations seemed to work well.  The brakes braked.  We asked the guy we were dealing with to give us the best "green dollar" price.  Is there anything else we should check before pulling the trigger on this machine?
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Just general used machine stuff, run it for a while and check for leaks anywhere (axles, hydraulics, gland seals) and everything functions as it should. Check hydraulic rams for chipped - scarred chrome (will eat up seals). Also any hint of cracks or welded repairs in the boom and frame. Repaints aren't always bad, but where I grew up it was referred to as a "Dupont Overhaul" on auction lot machines. :D

The guy we are dealing with seemed like a straight shooter.  They get machines from rental places and new machine dealers.  They rent them some and send the ones that are suspect to auction and fix everything that needs fixing on the ones they keep, paint and sell.  This one had all new hoses and worked really smooth.  I would have preferred that it had faded, original paint but it did look pretty good.  I will probably go out there again before pulling the trigger.

Quote from: caveman on November 22, 2021, 08:13:55 PMIs there anything else we should check before pulling the trigger on this machine?

Yes - You need to check what it will cost you to have it trucked to 23894.  We will give it a very thorough 6 month inspection for you.  :D

Quote from: Resonator on November 22, 2021, 08:52:35 PMRepaints aren't always bad, but where I grew up it was referred to as a "Dupont Overhaul" on auction lot machines.

I call them Rustoleum Rebuilds ;)

Quote from: caveman on November 22, 2021, 08:13:55 PMWe went to Plant City and looked at the 642. It had low hours, fresh paint and seemed to be a good machine but we also looked at a higher hour 639 Skytrak.

Those sure are pretty!  Might not seem like much but the extra reach of the 642 is something I'd strongly consider - Mine is a 9038.  There has been many times I needed another foot or two building my cabin.  I also noticed the boom extension ram is external.  What a great idea.  Mine is internal to the boom and I'm not looking forward to when that needs rebuilding!

I've pulled a couple of the internal pistons out. Both times I dreaded doing it , ended up being much easier than anticipated. 

I would see if they would change the forks on that machine. It's difficult enough to get two forks lined up to go between packs of lumber. They should have another set of forks that they could put on there if they deal with that many machines.

Thanks for all of the insight.  
They agreed to swap the forks if we do get this one.  When stretched all the way out the 6036 seemed like we should be able to reach anything we need to around here.  Of course, if we do get this one, we'll need a 42' the next week.  There is also a pretty good price difference between the two machines.

Southside, I'd love to have you check it out but the transport is going to have to be a deal breaker.

It's the nature of the beast with those machines if that stick was 100' long eventually you'll try to reach something 102' away  :D .
I would think that would be a good size for your application. Best of luck if you get it. Chances are you'll wonder how you lived without it. 

Used to work with a guy years ago that had been a machine operator on a lot of big office building projects. He got called in one time to run the lift when they needed pallets of brick on a new downtown office job, only catch the crew was working on a wall about 6 stories up. :o
He got the brick up to them, but made the guys hand unload every brick. He said he DanG sure wasn't going to try to set the pallet down and pull the forks out from under it. :D

I can't say I blame him on that one. That's up there, enough to make me pucker for sure. 

I honestly don't know how I got along without mine. Just picked up a man basket for it. Wife didn't approve of my pallet on the forks approach.  ::) To my credit I did have a fall protection harness properly on, hooked up, and I used a pretty decent pallet each time.  ;D

Quote from: Southside on November 23, 2021, 08:44:01 PMJust picked up a man basket for it.

When I was running the machine in the rain yesterday morning going through all of the operations, I extended the boom all the way up.  John told me later that he was not going up on the forks even with a good pallet or a man basket.  He's going to have to learn to run it if we get it.  I'll likely be the one going up.  John doesn't care for heights.

Nice looking machine. The paint scares me little but it sounds like they run a good operation so maybe they're not just trying to get your eyes off the real stuff.  Looks like your real close to having another work horse.

For a man lift, I took an IBC tote and removed the container and presto chango I had a man lift. Just run a strap around the brick rack and it's secured. Cheap and easy. 

I spent a lot of hours in one of them putting up a big greenhouse they work well. The sides are easy to climb for those hard to reach areas when the machine just won't quite get you there. 

Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 23, 2021, 01:03:59 AMI also noticed the boom extension ram is external.  What a great idea.  Mine is internal to the boom and I'm not looking forward to when that needs rebuilding!

I noticed that on one the other day, that is nice. Our ram is internal in the boom and spooging out the front gland, we've been pouring oil and dreading the job. Glad to hear it wasn't too bad. The teflon pads and rollers on our boom are worn heavily. You can look down the boom when extended and see it and if you put in some down pressure when extended it shows the amount of slop, always there but excessive in ours, we need to do a full service when it goes down. I don't know the capacity of that machine, it looks on the light side. I'd pick up something bundle size and shoot out and see where the happy place is and if you can work within that.

It is supposed to lift 6000 pounds and 1800 at max reach.  

Those are brick forks and theyre worth alot more than pallet forks!  Theyre for picking brick packs that are banded together without pallets, just banding and fiberboard in the tierd where rows of brick are ommitted for the fork to pass through. 

 I have hauled maaany loads of those out of NC.   They cant be unloaded by palletfork.

I don't know the value of them. I do know they can be a pain to get between packs of lumber, especially if one is bent, and most have at least one that is. If they are more expensive maybe you can ask for a discount.

I'm still awaiting the salesman to get back to me with his best cash price.  We let him know the leaky front tire needed to be repaired, the forks swapped out, and delivery included in that best price.

A few years ago I found some brick forks for $50 each.  A friend bought a couple and I modified them to fit on a regular fork rack for his 30ish hp tractor.

Update on the telehandler.  Sometime around Christmas, the salesman called me with a price that seemed reasonable.  I offered to rent it for a week to ensure that it would serve our needs as we anticipated and if we decided to purchase, just apply the rental price to the purchase price.  He did not get back with me.  I saw the same machine is still for sale for several thousands more dollars now.

I found a 
2007 Gehl RS6-34 that looks like it should do what we need but I am not familiar with that machine.  Do any of you have any opinions or experience with this or a similar one?  This one has a JD engine.  It weighs quite a bit less than the Skytrak but could probably be hauled on our GN trailer in a pinch.

I take it that model is a 6,000 lb capacity, 34' reach?  That would do pretty well around a mill. Is that a 3 part boom (1 fixed section with 2 that tele out) or 4?  What's it weigh?  My SkyTrak is a beast at 26k.

This one is 6K lift and weighs around 16000 lbs.  I found an 8K, 44' that weighs 26000 lbs, which is similar to the 6k and 8k Skytraks we looked at.  The rs6 has about a 12' turning radius and the 8k has 13'.  The RS6 is 16' long and the 8k machine is 19'.  The 8k machine is nearby and the smaller machine is over on the east coast a couple of hours away. 

I have a few pieces of equipment with JD engines. I've put as high as 8-9000 hours on them before selling. Never had any trouble with them. With that being said I had bought most new and started the maintenance right to begin with. My telehandler has a JD engine. Had to replace the starter so far and it looks a little rough under the hood as there is a few leaks but it runs good. ;D
Rebel Auction is where I got mine at in Hazelhurst GA. They have a auction there every month. Either the first or second Thursday, I can't remember which. I didn't buy mine at the auction, I bought it directly from them. They will now and then buy a piece of equipment themselves and just sell it. Might give them a call and see if they have one.

Don't know about that machine in particular but I like my Gehl machines. Parts are reasonably priced and have good availability with a lot of things being available from outside vendors. I have 2 Gehl skid steers and love the heck out of it.

Yep. They make really good machines and have always had a good reputation 

I'm back seeking advice on another telehandler.  Have any of you had experience with Bobcat Versahandler 518?  It has relatively low hours and a 100 hp Perkins engine.  This a smaller machine than most of what we have been looking at but it's size would be advantageous in many instances.  I could transport it on my bumper pull trailer behind my pickup, it would get into tight spots, and it will lift quite a bit more than my tractor.



I thought we had a good deal lined up a week ago on a Genie/Terex 10000 lb lift capacity, but it did not materialize.

Cavemen, I'll check what model Bobcat we have in town that is used at our transfer station next time I'm there.  

It's been in for a laundry list of repairs in the last 2 years.  To call it a turd would be an understatement. Boom issues, electrical issues, hydraulic problems. Some of the issues were caused by former "operator's" using the boom fully extended to crush glass and pack down refuse. I'll try and get the model, just so you can avoid getting the same one!

Thank you.

Quote from: GRANITEstateMP on August 20, 2022, 09:20:33 PMSome of the issues were caused by former "operator's" using the boom fully extended to crush glass and pack down refuse.

Uhh, yeah, Guilty. I was doing that with construction debris in a big dumpster till I looked at the boom and its cylinder, the rollers, etc along the boom while I was doing it. Basically I was putting the weight of the machine on an extended boom, simply brilliant. I quit that foolishness pronto, it's cheaper to call for a haul!

We used an 8K Bobcat at work, it was decent, pretty maneuverable, and was smooth to operate.  All our stuff was maintained by the motor pool, so I didn't notice it being broken down and out of service too much.  

The best we had was a Gehl, built like a tank and we used it everyday.  Not real comfortable, not real modern, no high tech, but it just worked, and it had a frame tilt feature which was great.

We "splurged" and bought a Cat, everybody was all excited, and it was a total POS, and always spent time in the shop.  It was real twitchy, and the controls were a little erratic which is not what is wanted when handling explosives or doing lifts with the Safety Office guys watching.  What really torqued our britches was that it was bought for it's lift capacity and since we handled explosives and did overhead lifts, it had to be independently load tested and certified, (big certified weights are used) and it never met its advertised lift capacity, even after sending it back to Cat several times.  It was a big poop show, and the we derated it to certify it, and so killed any more Cat purchases for us.  It spent a lot of time in the shop and the Cat dealer.  It may have been a lemon, I don't know, we never considered buying another to find out, and Cat never made good on sending us a good one.  It had a good radio, nice air conditioner, comfortable seat, but was not a good telehandler.  We laughed and cussed at it a lot.    

Both the Bobcat and Gehl were successfully load tested and certified at their advertised capacities, and the guys and I liked using them because of their smoothness and predictability.

I have not ran a Bobcat version. I did go look at couple the other day that are here local. One was brand new '21 model from Italy and would be awesome once you are in it. The trouble is that it was a four step ladder to get in. I get in and out of mine to many times a day for that. The other was a Skytrack (sp). It was similar to my JLG except the boom controls. Instead of a joystick it had multiple leavers for the boom. Well I didn't think that would work trying to unload a log truck. Trying to move 3 leavers that are spread to far apart at the same time while operating the steering wheel and forward/reverse leaver. I could just see me putting a log on top of the truck or something.

Thanks fellows.  I don't usually get in a hurry to purchase anything and prefer to buy good deals rather than when I need something.  John and I will probably put a couple hours on a telehandler in a busy week, but it will give my tractor a longer lifespan and handle a lot more weight.  Peter had a nice CAT until its hydraulic system decided to self-destruct. The ones at the top of my list are Lull, Skytrack, Genie/Terex, Ghel, and the others can fall in behind.  I've heard that the Gradalls are good machines but with only rear steer, I think that may be a hinderance for our situation.  I did test a JCB, but I was dissuaded by a couple on here.  It was a nice machine, but I do not want something that parts are tough to get or are known to have transmission issues.

I have read that the Bobcats sometimes have issues with the transmission but that it is usually a relay or fuse and that the belly pan makes some maintenance issues a bit more challenging but for the right price I can tolerate a little inconvenience. 

At this stage of my life, I should be getting rid of things with batteries and tires instead of shopping for more, but I'm not a smart man. 

I wouldn't cross Gradall off the list until you have tried one. It's been a few years since I've spent much time in any telehandlers, but I always thought the Gradalls were more maneuverable then the other breeds with 4 wheel steer. The back end turns sharp enough that you can pivot on the front tire. I know a Gradall was considerably more maneuverable then a Skytrack of similar size.

Most all of the construction companies in this area have always leaned towards Gradall. It wasn't until JLG bought out Gradall a few years ago that you started seeing some different color machines on job sights around here. We have a fleet of about 15 or so telehandlers at work and all of them are Gradall/JLG. They're just stupid simple and reliable. I think we've only sold 1 or 2 in the last 20 years. Some of the older ones have been rebuilt and have to have a boat load of hours.

Quote from: caveman on August 21, 2022, 05:02:44 PM
At this stage of my life, I should be getting rid of things with batteries and tires instead of shopping for more, but I'm not a smart man.

Nah, now's the time to do the research and ask the questions, so you get the best, most reliable thing you can find (whatever make and model that is), and do a Forrest Gump and say "That's one less thing to worry about."

The towns evil telehandler is a Bobcat V417. If you'd like to look at it, just bring a match...I've already stuffed agas soaked rag in it's tank to provide light

I use a 1044 Lull John Deere motor

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With a 5 yard bucket to load chips

That is a good-looking machine.  I look for them daily.  The prices locally have gone up probably 20-25% since this thread began.  We likely let a couple of good ones slip by.  John keeps predicting that construction around here will slow and there will be more available at lower prices.  I don't see a slowdown in sight.  

If I don't drive a road for a month or so, it seems new houses or warehouses have appeared out of nowhere.  Strawberry fields  
and citrus groves no more.

TomK, you've got me looking at Gradalls again.  There were some of them reasonably priced several months ago that we did not pull the trigger on.

A builder I worked for had a gradall. Always liked the machine. Was easy on and off,nice smooth hydraulics, good dependable nothing fancy just got the job done type machine. Can't remember now what model. 

I looked at a Komatsu WA-75 loader last week.  It had a plethora of issues but now I'm wishing I would have bought it.  Today I drove about 3 1/2-4 hours round trip to look at another Skytrak 6036 that has a Cummins 4bt.  It seems like a decent machine, but it was not as advertised (I was told it did not have any leaks and that it was a 2000 model year).  Based on the engine and the axles, it was likely a 1990 and two guys had the boom hoisted up with another telehandler repacking a cylinder when I pulled up.  That did not bother me so much because it gave me more time to check out other stuff.  The new packing leaked too.  

The boom pads seemed to be in good enough shape.  The long cylinder that extends/contracts the boom did not leak but it had some pitting on the underside.  I'm not sure if that is an issue to be concerned with or not but that is likely an expensive cylinder.  The tires are foam filled but they are past shot out.  It steered in all positions and both driveshafts spun smoothly underway.  Brakes worked.  If it were $10K less, we'd probably be the new owners of old iron. The newer paint over old rust is ok.  The seat was comfortable and in good shape.  Most of the access panels did not have functioning latches but that is minor.  

The reason I passed on the Komatsu loader was because of blowby that I felt when I removed the fill cap in the valve cover while it was idling (it had 8000 hours).  Yesterday, I did the same on my M7040 Kubota that has 1330 hours and it seemed to have more and blew oil over my hand.  I was nearly sick to my stomach, thinking my engine may not be long for this world.  This morning, I did the same thing with the M7060 at school that has 130 hours and it also covered my hand with oil and had about the same amount of perceived pressure as my personal tractor.  As a rule, how much blowby is acceptable?  How much is a deal breaker for someone who has no interest in repairing a diesel?  Thank you. pr
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You would definitely want to re chrome that piston, otherwise it will keep taking the cap seal out.

Thank you, Southside.  I'll probably keep looking.  Even junky machines are commanding a premium locally.  I drove a little over 60 miles each way to look at this machine and the amount of residential and commercial construction since I drove that route last winter was staggering.  I must have driven past dozens of working excavators and loaders, several telehandlers and many more rollers and dump trucks.   

The tire doesn't scare me, I had a foam filled one on my 644 that I ran until it was completely bald, and would throw dinner plate sized rubber chunks of rubber from under the tread when I ran it, the diameter was even smaller than the other tires and you would notice it when driving around, anyway I knew the foam was completely powder collapsed in that casing when I decided it was time to get a new one.  When they cut it off the rim the foam was actually untouched, not a speck of breakdown had happened, that stuff is beyond tough.  

I have a late '80s 1044 and a '92 644 and neither has those clean lines and that compact telescope design, my gut tells me that machine is closer to a 2000 than a 1990.  

I hope that y'all don't tell me "I told you so" on the JCB.  The rental/sales place in Plant City that we were looking at several months ago called me today and sent me a text with some pics of a very nice looking, relatively low hour JCB 506c that is significantly less than anything comparable we have looked at within the past year.  I'll probably go look at it tomorrow afternoon.

If you know things, good or bad, about this specific model, please share before tomorrow.  Thank you.  Kyle

I went to Plant City and checked out the old JCB today.  It started and ran well.  The hoses were in good shape and generally looked like a good, older machine.  The transmission was a 4-speed with a clutch and a shuttle shifter on the column.  The parking brake did not work but the brakes did stop the machine.  The steering shaft bearings seemed to be worn but I've driven old Broncos for years so I can relate.  The transmission and engine were in line with each other.  I told the salesman I'd let him know something tomorrow, one way or the other.  

Again, if any of you have any input on this machine, especially the transmission, I'd like to hear it.  Thanks.

I've never seen one with a clutch. Don't think I would like to be loading lumber or logs like that much. I've done it with my tractor and it isn't much fun.

Thanks, Jake.  I did a poor job of describing the transmission/clutch.  Instead of having an electric speed selector, it has a clutch and a shifter to put it in one of the four speeds/gears.  It still has a shuttle shifter on the steering column.  It has a torque converter and does not require the use of the clutch to go from stop to go, to stop to reverse.

I think all that "clutch " pedal is is a transmission disconnect. It allows you to throttle up without moving or putting it in neutral. Quite common in construction equipment. Extending the boom a ways out or raising it up higher are situations that those pedals are handy.

We ended up getting the JCB.  I like it better today, after getting it home, than I did yesterday.  For our use, I think it will suffice.  If it falls short of our expectations, we should be able to sell it without taking too much of a beating as long as it does not have a catastrophic failure.  For a machine of this size, it is pretty agile.  I appreciate all of advice given.  We wanted something that would not require a lot of work.  This machine has a few issues that we will work through.  The E-brake does not work but the elevation changes on the 10 acres where it will be used is probably less than 1' except for the pond.  We will probably wire up lights, add mirrors and correct the wiring for the temp gauge.  

Finally! You've been looking a long time - congratulations!

Need pictures!!!

Good deal. I'm with SS we need some pictures or your going to make one of us drive down there. :D

I think it would be awesome for y'all to come down here but I'm leaving this weekend to go to Indy for a week with the forestry team.  
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 smiley_thumbsup smiley_beertoast
Now you will be stacking stuff all over. Moving, cleaning up the yard with that reach.

Nice looking machine.

Oh Wow, :o  that is a fine looking machine!  8)

That's a nice one.  E- brakes are over rated anyway.  I drove a tractor for years without any, just turn the wheels and put the cage on the ground.  

E brakes? You know how much equipment I have had over the years that didn't even have brakes? I thought that was why you were supposed to drive with the loader low - in case you had to stop quickly.  :D :D

That will move some wood! smiley_thumbsup
I keep a wood chock block close by with my tractor. Throw it in front of the tire when I climb off to load logs/lumber on the mill.

Just make sure the wood chock is big enough!  More than once my SkyTrak rolled over a 6" tall rubber one like it wasn't even there!

The main times I use the brakes on my tractor is when it is on the trailer or when we are pulling logs out of the pond and I'm on the bank.  I grew up working for a man who had several tractors, a couple Massey's, a Ford 7000 and a Deutz.  The best I can remember, the only one that had functional brakes was the Deutz, which he purchased new while I worked for him.  Brakes are kind of like power steering or AC.  They are nice to have but not a necessity most of the time.  Hopefully, posts on this subject won't find their way to the "I did something dumb today" thread. 

Good looking iron! (E brakes aren't a show stopper around here)
I enjoyed the stories describing how you and John 'feel' for sunken logs, with bare feet, in your pond.
With a fork grapple attachment, you might be able retrieve logs with the JCB? Kinda like "Fishin' in the Dark"? 
.
But, I'd sure miss the posts about dodging the water moccasins in the log pond! 😰 

Andries, I suspect we'll still be out there feeling around for logs.  The pond was unusually low all summer but with the hurricane last month it is up a bit, and the majority of the logs are well submerged.  It has been cool the past few days and we have a decent sized (for us) cypress order coming up next month so we will likely be back in the COLD water, looking/feeling for logs.

We had a couple by here Tuesday evening looking at pine and cypress.  Their contractor was a plumber when we built our house 29 years ago and he brought the plans for the 8000ft2 bardominium.  The male customer grabbed a piece of cypress off of the rack and said it smelled just like a gun room (10'x18' with 12' ceiling height).  He has been working seven, 16-hour days a week down in Fort Myers since the storm and has some extra cash coming in.  They are also getting a fair amount of pine also.

Our day jobs sure get in the way of us sawing, drying, stacking and hauling.  

Well that new equipment will help speed things up for y'all.

I'm getting the feel of the machine a little.  It would not start this morning so it needed a jump and a charge on the battery.  After sawing this morning, I located the alternator and noticed that the belt was really loose.  I'll check it later to determine if it is charging properly. 

We sawed some nice heart pine this morning and had eight or nine layers on a 16' pallet.  It had no trouble stacking on top of our already tall stack.  If the forks were a bit longer, I could have easily moved two oak logs that the Kubota tractor struggled to move individually.  Last night I moved a 1000-gallon propane tank, pump and stand for the tank without it breaking a sweat.  This is an old leaky machine, but I think it will serve our needs.

That's good to hear!  

I'm sure there will be a few gremlins in a used machine here and there, but the main thing is it's doing what you want, and moving lumber you may have had issues with before.  

Strength though hydraulics.

It's been a couple of weeks so we want to know how it is working.

I was gone for two weekends and a work week (National FFA Convention trip) but I used it some last weekend moving logs and slabs.  It lifts like a boss, compared to the Kubota M7040 tractor and handles pretty well for a machine that weighs over 21,000 pounds.  I like having the ability to stack higher on our drying racks.  With the tractor, we only made out 16' pallets seven layers high with 1x material.  Now we will easily be able to double that, which should improve efficiency.  It is kind of a pain to stop when we are in a sawing groove to move a pallet and fetch an empty on to stack on.

We do have a few issues to tend to. It needs mirrors, especially on the right side.  The alternator does not seem to be charging so we have had to jump start it and/or charge the battery a few times.  Usually, we leave the steering in four-wheel steer mode but it sometimes gets out of sync but that only takes a few seconds to get set back right.  John and I have both searched for a free manual online, but it looks like we will have to purchase one.  After we get the charging system sorted out, we'll need to add a few lights.  Oh, the brakes work but the parking/emergency brake still needs to be fixed before we start picking logs out of the pond.

John has not operated it yet, but he will need to get the hang of it soon.  We have quite a few trees to trim at my place and his and he does not like leaving terra firma more than a few feet.

The steering sync is probably due to a hydraulic leak somewhere in the system.  For me that's a tell tale I need to look things over, sometimes it's a pretty small weep, but it's always a leak. 

Yeah, you probably have 4 steering rams.  Only takes one with a small leak past the piston to cause that.

Thanks, fellows.  We'll eventually figure some things out.  For now, it is nice to be able to move heavy stuff and give my tractor a break.

Should I start looking for a leak on the steering rams and lines running to them or could it be caused by a leak anywhere?  

I cancelled my class for tomorrow night, and they cancelled school for the whole district/county (over 110,000 students) on Thursday due to the storm that is headed our way so I should have a little time to take a look at it.

It can be anywhere, when the steering rams leak it goes out of alignment faster. 

And it can be the dreaded WBBB, an unseen internal piston leak with wicked bad blow by. Just align the rears in 4 wheel, switch to 2 wheel and realign the fronts, then switch to 4 wheel again. Till that gets old  :D.

Mine does it too. Normally have to "fix" it about once a week.

We have a spinner on the steering wheel of "Artie" the articulated loader. If I'm going down the road holding the wheels straight, by the time I arrive that spinner has clocked "straight ahead" to every point on the compass :D. I assume this was a prototype of the much sought after "Heads Up" display.

Quote from: Don P on November 09, 2022, 06:18:10 AMJust align the rears in 4 wheel, switch to 2 wheel and realign the fronts, then switch to 4 wheel again. Till that gets old  .

Don, this is what I've been doing.  Slow day at the school house today so I have time to read the forum.

We sawed a bit more cypress this morning after some prospecting in the pond.  We need to trim an oak limb if we are going to go any higher on this stack.  We stuck another small pallet of cypress on a pile between the saw shed and the greenhouse.  John and I were debating if the telehandler would be able to get in, stack the wood and be able to get the forks out.  It surprised me that it was able to fit.

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With the breeze we had today and the warm weather, this stack should have gotten a good start on drying.

After a while, you will wonder how you got along without it. ;)

And you will PANIC when it breaks down as you forgot how to get along without it.  

I'm sure both of you are right.  

There's always backup  ;D

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Quote from: Southside on November 21, 2022, 09:29:58 PMAnd you will PANIC when it breaks down as you forgot how to get along without it.

Southside, you are right.  Today, while moving a camphor log, I noticed a good bit of hydraulic fluid leaking when tilting the forks down.  The cylinder seems to be 4.7" in diameter with a 16" stroke.  What would be reasonable to pay someone to repair/reseal it?  I will talk to the school board tractor mechanic tomorrow and see who they take their cylinders to, but I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. 

Assuming the rod is in good condition and does not need to be re-chromed I would buy the packings and do it myself.  Probably have under $100 into it and an hour of work.  Now if you drop it at a shop they will hone the bore and clean it all out, which is really good and all, but that would end up $500 is my guess.  

Let me know what you do, I have to do them on both machines as they are starting to make the rod wet.  

Thanks.  That's kind of the ballpark I was thinking.  

You can do like my dozer friend. He's got stuff leaking on everything all the time. Just keep running and adding 😂

But that's $120.00 for 5 gal :D

All depends on the price of seals. Just did two of my own and for one cylinder the seals were about $118 bucks for the 2nd the seals alone were $286 dollars. Add in $100/hour labor.....

The $286 dollar seals only cost $112 3 years ago.....

I ordered seals and they arrived Thursday.  This morning, between dealing with customers and a few other diversions, we were able to get the cylinder out.  I was not able to work past noon today.  We were going to try to reseal it in place, but we could not access the gland (I think that is what it's called or the hydraulic line fittings).  The bottom pin came out relatively easily.  The top one required more tenacity.  We took turns swinging a 15-pound hammer overhead, using a rail spike hammer as the pin driver.  After 20 minutes or so, the pin was removed.  We chucked the pin up in the lathe, removed the rust and polished it a bit with sandpaper and then a scotch pad.  

John was able to disconnect the hydraulic lines.  We lifted the cylinder back up and John drove in the pin while I held it.  This was to provide a solid hold while we used a 3' pipe wrench and a piece of tubing for a lever to loosen the gland nut.  It came out.  We will get back on it on Monday morning.

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Ex- Sunbelt rental machine? Seeing that green paint makes me think so.

When you said tilt I thought you meant body tilt, was scratching my head trying to figure out how that worked from the photos.  :D

We redid the body tilt cylinder, egged out, pretty much totalled, that was around a grand IIRC.
I believe that is called a counterbalance valve someone is pointing to in the bottom pic, one of the lines is the pilot line that releases the hydraulic lock on the cylinder. 

Repacking cylinders is all part of the fun and the fun never stops.

I'm sure it was an old Sunbelt machine.  This cylinder does not seem like it has been apart.  The nut had no scars from a pipe wrench and the top pin, as explained earlier, took a bit of effort to drive out.  I was a little confused about the "tilt" but that is what JCB calls it as do the folks who sell the seals.  The hydraulic line burst valves should be okay.  We just intend to repack the cylinder and reinstall it, put a little fluid in it and use it until something else needs attention.  If this goes well, I may order the seals to do the rear steering cylinders to have on hand for a slow day.

If you don't have them get a set of rod seal install tools, (the seal twister things) and a set of O ring picks.

Thanks, Don.  Between John and me, we should have an adequate supply of picks.  I'll have to look into the seal installer tool (s).

Here's a quick 1 minute video of the tool and how it works.
Seal Twister - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxhkmBgcYSg)

Boiling water can also be your friend with really stiff plastic parts. There's one seal on the dozer that we must have damaged installing, it's leaking again. Need to inspect the steel really well this time too. I think we've learned with that machine to buy oem seals, other machines don't seem to care as much.

I've had good experience renting Sunbelt machines. Not knowing who operated it, but at least they are regular with their maintenance and repairs. When they buy them new they are built and painted to their spec's at the factory, and then I've seen them resold with relatively low hours.

Don, thanks for sharing the video of the tool.  I may make one to use when we do the steering rams.  Installing the seals was the easiest part of this whole ordeal.  Getting the cylinder back up and aligned to install the top pin was a challenge for us.  Eventually, we used a smaller pin as a drift, followed with a piece of round tube, then the pin.  After getting everything back together, it operated as it should without leaking.  I appreciate the advice and guidance y'all provided.  I won't look forward to doing another, but it was rewarding to get it back together.  Had we taken it to a shop to do, they would have done what turned out to be the easy part and we would have still had the hassle of installing the cylinder.

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We had to bleed the hose burst protection valve to get the cylinder to extend.

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We removed the old seals, cleaned everything and put in/on the new ones (one seal I was removing broke, and I got the bloody part of blood, sweat and tears when the pick entered my left thumb).

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The shop is too full of other treasures to get the machine inside, so we brought out a plethora of tools to work with.

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We cycled the hydraulics a few times and added a couple of gallons of fluid to bring the level back to full.  Thank you again for all of the advice and guidance on this project.  With the seals, rags, cleaner, and everything else, we came in at less than $100.  We probably spent seven or eight hours but if we do another it should go much quicker.

When I did the fork tilt ram on mine (alone), I put some straps on it, removed the hoses and just pulled it out with the straps catching it and a bucket to catch the oil.  Then I put the rod back on the forks so I could bust the nut loose.  But that didn't work.  So I just took the rod in to the shop and had them do the R&R on the seals.  Getting the rod/piston back in the tube was a real challenge and I used ratchet straps to support and ease it back in.

Now the boom lift rams were another story.  Mine are 7 foot long and the rod is 2.5", IIRC.  I set the forks on a hill so the ram was going up hill.  Pulled the top pin and loosened the cap nut.  Extended the ram, slung in ratchet straps from the boom.  Got to the end, removed the top line and then pushed it the rest of the way out with the pump.  That sucker was HEAVY!  I used my backhoe to sling it into my pickup.  The shop had to cut the nut off as they couldn't bust it loose.  R&R the seals and I re-assembled.  That was the right hand ram.  Now the left one is leaking bad.  Not looking forward to that one as it is between the boom and the cab - very tight quarters!

I would not have wanted to do this job solo.  

I have done both of those and was thinking "I don't remember them being all that hard, how did I remove those cylinders?". Then it hit me, I have an excavator.  ;D

Sweet!, Oh you'll get good at it  ;D.
The first one I worked on didn't rumble but it had leathers :D.

If the steel is damaged it needs to go to a shop or find another. The glands on the skidsteer are aluminum and I think it had a horse barn in its life. The aluminum spalled apart but I found replacement glands and it was still a home repair. 

On the Lull's egged out frame tilt cylinder, the shop keeps a variety of tube sizes and turned a new cylinder, then repacked and tested it. 

Yesterday we spent a little time and tinkered with the parking brake.  There was a lot of slack in the cable but everything seemed to be intact.  John printed off that section of the online manual we purchased so we had an idea of how to adjust it.  I assume it had never been adjusted.  After some drilling, a judicious application of Corrosion X and a Allen Wrench and a pipe wrench, we were able to get the adjustment mechanism apart.  Still it did not take enough slack out of the cable so we removed a pinned link, cut out 5/16" and reassembled it.  Still it was not tight enough to hold.  Then, while under the machine to adjust the cable on the other end, I had an epiphany.  There was a nyloc nut on a tensioner on the caliper that clamped on the disc mounted to the front drive shaft.  This was adjusted and we now have an amazing parking brake.  I drove it down to the pond (shallow end just in case), put the front tires in the water and set the brake.  On the incline it held.  I then tried it on a steeper bank and it had no problem holding.  

About the time we sat down for lunch, a friend showed up with a GN trailer load of 16' and 20' pine logs.  It was great to be able to lock the brake while shooting the forks under the logs instead of doing a three-pedal shuffle.  I was able to unload 3-4 logs at a time.  I ordered mirrors and a spinner knob this morning.

The steering is still an issue we need to work out as well as it needs to have the alternator rebuilt and lights added.  I am glad we got this machine.  It has made many tasks quicker, safer and removed a lot of manual lifting.

Of course I am 100% portable and depend upon what the customer has but I always smile when I see a telehandler.  :)

The reach is the best thing.

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And a 5 yard sawdust bucket.

I would like to get or make a three-yard bucket and an adapter to be able to attach to skid steer implements.  A man basket is also on the build list.  

Caveman keep an eye for buckets at auctions. I know a couple people that picked up buckets off of scrapped out machines real cheap. Rather than pinning them to the carriage where the forks attach, they took box tubing welded it to the inside bottom and stuck it out the back. Then they just slid it on the forks and either chained it or fastened it to the carriage so they could dump it. 
For scooping sawdust or using it to scrap out jobsites it worked well and was a whole lot cheaper than a matching coupler and bucket. 
For a man basket check out Titan implements. 

The metal cage from an ibc tote makes a great man lift. Cut out a few rungs on one side for easy entry. Strap it to the brick frame. Cheap, easy, safe.  

Titan has really nice man lifts and they are affordable.  I have their 8' version, very safe, very sturdy, and I don't have to go looking for the "good pallet" any more when I need to get up in the air. 

Caveman I'm glad to see you getting the brakes fixed. Every improvement you make on that machine the more you're going to like it. I like many features of my machine but the lift capacity has to be one of the most impressive things about it.

Quote from: customsawyer on March 06, 2023, 05:20:59 AM
Caveman I'm glad to see you getting the brakes fixed. Every improvement you make on that machine the more you're going to like it. I like many features of my machine but the lift capacity has to be one of the most impressive things about it.

I have all my stuff work 100 %  lifting 10,000 lb easy is nice too.
Keep after it Caveman. smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup

Quote from: btulloh on March 05, 2023, 09:54:45 PM
The metal cage from an ibc tote makes a great man lift. Cut out a few rungs on one side for easy entry. Strap it to the brick frame. Cheap, easy, safe.  

I like that idea. smiley_beertoast smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup

Ours came with a 1 man basket but my partner kept watching ads and found a 10' one... which I immediately added more steel to! For working up there it is hard to beat a dance floor.

There,s a little black oil on top of the skidsteer water this morn, that cannot be good.

Since I've given an update on this machine, we have replaced a hydraulic line and today, we replaced an alternator.  It has never charged a battery since we've owned it.  I generally hook up a battery charger for several hours every week.

I tried to get the alternator tested last weekend but all of the local auto parts stores now need the car's specifics for their machine to test.  We had already pulled the alternator from the machine.  That was a two-person job unless one had tool truck wobbly sockets.  Thank you to John for coming over and helping a brother out.  After two failed attempts to get the alternator tested, John took the one we took out to a repair shop in Winter Haven.  They were not open on Monday morning, so I ordered a new one online. After installing the new one and starting the machine, the idiot light was still on.  We traced the biggest wire going to the alternator (nothing was labeled) and it was not hooked up.  We spent the next hour looking online and in the manual we ordered for the machine and did not find a schematic.

We assumed if we screwed up that we would let the magic smoke out of the new alternator, but we went for it anyway.  No smoke, but the idiot light was still on.  After revving the engine, it showed an increase in voltage, the tach worked right for the first time since we've owned it and we nearly did a happy dance.  Small victories.

I ordered new seals for all of the steering cylinders, a pick set and the seal installer doohickey that DonP recommended.  That will be another day's project.  This old machine has been an amazing asset to our rinky dink operation.

I was looking at backhoes, and especially small wheel loaders prior to us purchasing this machine.  I think we made the right decision.  It saves a ton of work and spares my tractor from most of the heavy lifting abuse.  

Thank you for all of the encouragement and help.  I hope the steering cylinder seals fix the steering synchronization issues. If not, we will have gained experience in repacking leaking cylinders.

It has not rained here lately but as soon as I went to work on it last weekend, the rain began.
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My experience is that fixing the leaky steering cylinder will help with the syncro issue, but as long as others are leaking the issue will continue.  It's a great feeling when you get to the point they are all dry.  That was a great few hours..... :D

I've had my steering cylinders all repacked and still have to do the tire alignment from time to time. I think it is part of owning one with a few years on it.

We need to realign ours every few minutes.  I'll save repacking them for another day.  I need to get some caps/plugs for the hydraulic lines before we start on that project.  I also probably need to refill the cooler before that day.  

This afternoon, I pulled the dash out and tried to figure out why the lights have not worked since we've owned the machine.  Turns out that the bulbs were both blown.  Some of the insulation on the wires going to the lights was compromised so I replaced it and added an LED light bar that I had purchased for the JD Gator years ago but have never installed.

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Before reinstalling the dash, I used the shop vac and cleaned up a bit and tidied up the wiring.  

I hate to respond to my own post, this afternoon while flat stacking a heart pine floor order for a customer, John mentioned that the backup beeper was working, and the temperature gauge was also working for the first time since we've owned this machine.  If I don't line up a saw job for Saturday, we may be repacking steering cylinders.  

John and I both drove the machine for a few minutes today.  He recalibrated the steering once and I did at least three times.

A year ago, I really wanted a Skytrak (Cummins 4BT) but the one we should have bought got away.  This machine has been good to us so far.  The prices of used telehandlers have been coming down, but I do not regret buying this one.  It is a lot better machine today than when it was dropped off.

I do hope repacking the steering cylinders improves the synchronization of the front and rear.  If not, it is not the end of the world.  I did see the Amazon truck pull off the road earlier in the week when I went for a test drive until I passed.  He must have been new.  

Caveman I'm glad to hear the machine is treating you guys well. A telehander would be my machine of choice for a sawmill operation, countless uses for sure.
Now about that amazon driver that pulled off the road, was there a mini microburst that blew it off the road? I know it's been hot down your way did you get change in the weather that caused icy roads and he slid off?  :D
Either way that's a site to behold, up in this neck of the woods seems like every corner you come around there's one stopped smack in the middle of the road.

Nah, I think the driver was just more comfortable not sharing the narrow road with a large yellow machine that was kind of crabbing his direction.  There is a rumor going around that we may get some rain with some cooler weather to follow.  We'll see.

After we sawed a small order of pine beams this morning, we decided to repack the rear steering cylinders.  They had been into before.  I ordered four rebuild kits, picks, and the seal installer doohickey (I should have bought the smaller one).  They came off without a fuss and we installed the repair parts.  After reinstalling them on the machine, I assumed it would be an easy bleeding process and we would be back in business, but the steering was much worse than before we worked on it. 

Much to my disappointment, the rear wheels keep drifting to the left, even when setting them straight ahead and while in front wheel steer mode.  We followed the manual's air bleeding procedure and still no joy.  The front wheels move as they are supposed to, and the rears get out of sync within a few seconds.  Trying to drive straight in two- or four-wheel steer mode turns into a crabbing situation, with the rears pointing to the left in short order.  

I am wondering if we screwed something up or if there is still air in the lines or the cylinders.  I would appreciate some guidance at this point.  Each steering cylinder has three lines, one is a common line between the rear cylinders.  I assume these are to equalize the pressure between the two of them.  Is there a way to bleed air out of the lines/cylinders similar to the way one bleeds brakes, by loosening the fitting while pressure is applied?  
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They shouldn't require any bleeding. Work the cylinder in and out a few times and any air will get worked thru the system.

Wouldn't surprise me if the steering valve itself has some wear causing the drifting. 

Thank you.  I am trying to get my head around why it is worse now after repacking the two rear steering cylinders than it was before.  They are easily accessible so we may pull them back apart and check all of the seals.  The kits I bought do not come with instructions, but I'm fairly certain we put all of the seals and Orings in the right way.  They do extend and contract and don't seem to have any leaks.  

I did not have any time to tinker with it today.  Tomorrow, I'll probably run it around in the pasture switching between the steering modes to see if that makes any difference.  I doubt it will.  Unloading the live edged hickory slabs in the kiln tomorrow afternoon will be a challenging and frustrating undertaking.  

I stopped by a hydraulic shop recommended by a friend last Friday.  The old guy and two sons run the shop.  I felt right at home when I walked in the door.  The older fellow spent 32 years with the Florida Division of Forestry as a mechanic/fabricator.  

I dropped of the steering cylinders on Monday afternoon.  Today I got a call and I stopped by and picked them up after forestry practice.  I spoke to the older son.  He explained what he did and what we had done wrong.  I gladly paid him what was a very reasonable price for his services.  They were installed soon after I got home and the test drive that ensued brought a smile of relief to my face.  This is the best it has steered since we've owned it.  

With an older machine, I know we'll always have some repairs and maintenance to keep up with, but this is one of those tools/machines that is easy to get used to having around.

On another note (maybe it should go to the stupid thread or daily carnage), I bent one of the "ears" on the front of my tractor's skid steer attachment point pretty bad last week when my sloppy fitting fork rack came off of one side while I was uprooting a decent sized oak.  We heated it and bent it back using a 3' pipe wrench and a 4' section of dom tube.  The crack was welded today at school, and I cut off all of the sloppy fitting parts of the rack and fabricated a better fitting lower engagement point.  I could have done this at home but some of the kids in ag mech can learn from my screwups and a few of them were even helpful.

Would you pass on to us what you found out you did wrong? just curious... tks

Great that you are up and running smooth now. 

Well, prior to these, we have repacked exactly one and it went well.  These had been into previously worked on by someone else.  Seals and Orings were not installed exactly the same from one side to the other.  We tried to reinstall the new parts the same as the ones we took out but evidently got something wrong and fluid was able to get past a seal.  When we pulled these apart, they did not have the locking pins and I was afraid to tighten the nut enough to get the holes to line up.  

It is sometimes good to take things to folks who know their business.  I like to be able to work on a variety of things but even some things I know how to do I'd rather pay someone else to do.

I have learned to take a picture of the glands up close before removing all of the seals, wipers, o rings, etc. for that exact reason.  

I'm glad you got it doing better. Pictures don't help if the last one that "fixed" it did it wrong. :D

I hope that this is my last post on this subject for a while.  Just an update.  I used the machine a bit yesterday and after initially syncing the front and rear wheels, I did not have to do so again, and it tracked true.  

Another thing.  After printing the digital manual and reading, I realized that this machine has two hydraulic pumps.  One, on the end of the crankshaft sends fluid to only the steering circuit and the cooling fan hydraulic motor.  Southside mentioned early on in our quest to discover the steering issue that a leak or bypass in any cylinder could cause our problem.  This is one reason we let it go for so long because of the cost and aggravation of repacking the steering cylinders may not have had any improving affect.  Had I read the two pump/hydraulic circuit information earlier, we would have likely tried to repair it earlier on.  

Anyway, I appreciate all of the guidance and suggestions offered on acquiring and fixing this machine.  It is a much better machine now than it was a year ago when we had it delivered.  Since then we have done a few upgrades and had a few repairs to failures when in use.
-Adjusted a non-working parking brake (simple once the mechanism was understood)
-Added mirrors to both sides
-Repacked tilt cylinder
-Replaced a broken hose
-Bought and installed a new alternator
-Hooked up tach, hour meter, temp gauge 
-Rewired lights from a connector onward and added a LED lightbar
-Paid someone competent to rebuild the rear steering cylinders.
So far, this machine has been pretty straightforward to work on and parts have been available and reasonably priced.  We did not saw yesterday, so I took the opportunity to degrease and pressure wash it.  With the leaks and dry, dusty conditions, it needed a little love.

This machine does not have a wheel position sensor to let the operator know when both sets of wheels are centered/pointing straight ahead, so getting them set initially depends on eyeballing them.  

My son and I were working on his loader, to replace a cable control that had worn out. 
We came to the conclusion that you really "own" a machine after you've spent many hours repairing, tinkering and wrenching on it. 
Good to hear that you've got a smile on your face while steering that machine. 

Good for you, I have to eyeball too  ;D
smiley_beertoast

Yup the ole calibrated eyeball here too.