Orchard Grafting

[mike_belben]

do any of you guys have experience grafting fruit tree cuttings into different species of rootstock? 


my lot persistently grows black cherry from seedlings but the largest one has ever gotten is 6" DBH. they cannot tolerate any competition at all and a stiff wind will fold them into arches.  they dont die, just wont stand.   youd need guy wires to grow one to maturity and im not favoring a tree not suited to the site.  add in the cyanide issue with livestock and i am close to eliminating all of them here but i remembered fruit grafting stock. 

does anyone have experience grafting anything into small black cherry rootstock?

[DMcCoy]

I cannot quite tell from your post.  You want to graft something onto the black cherry seedlings that come up?  Or you want to graft the black cherry onto a different root stock.
When you say they won't stand I'm assuming you mean the trunks are weak or do they tip over from weak rooting?
Do they break near the crown? 
Grafting is used to dwarf and semi dwarf full sized fruit trees by using the correct (dwarfing) root stock.  Roots stocks control height.
I have grafted my own fruit trees usually onto some nasty primitive root stock sucker like apple and prunes - the ones that have thorns.
Mike- usually people select a root stock for certain desirable qualities and then graft what ever hybrid they are after onto that.  Grafted conifers are typically onto root stock easily grown from seed and the more difficult conifer is grafted to it.
It's very simple to graft.  The whip graft with the extra flap is all I ever use on equal diameter pieces.  I wrap mine with black electrical tape - no wax.   The tape degrades in about 1 year and by that time the graft has calloused over.  Take is 100%. 

[mike_belben]

sorry i wasnt clear.. i was curious if my back cherry stumps have any use in grafting any other plant into it. anything at all, from blueberries to apple pear this that whatever.  

i say theyre persistent because i have cut some down and had them plume back up in shoots.  cut it down again, shoots back up.  thinner each time but very resilient.  what i cant grow is a straight black cherry sawlog.  but black cherry shrubs absolutely. very rapid growers

[SwampDonkey]

My black cherry up here all get black knot, so big black burls full of gum. I can get a but log once in awhile. I want to turn one sometime to see if there is enough wood in it to hold together or a mass of gum. :D

I had one out in the middle of the woodlot the black bears have been slowly destroying. Monkey bears. It ain't pretty. :D :D

[mudfarmer]

Some black knot here too SD, and it even got my apricots that probably should have fruited this coming year. Got the axe instead and hoping the pie cherries don't succumb..

[chep]

Apples and black cherry are both in the rosacea family. Not sure that means they are compatible. Maybe trying a nanking or some sort fruiting cherry would take easier. 
I have a fair bit of experience with whip and tounge grafting on apples and pears. Either onto rootstock or creating freak trees with 3 to 5 different varieties on them. I use a razor knife and then flagging tape to bind them together.  Usually remove the rape after they leaf out 2nd year. The grafters handbook is a great resource

[mike_belben]

what time of year is grafting done best?

[Ianab]

what time of year is grafting done best?

I'd think early spring when things are naturally trying to sprout? Then you have spring and summer for the graft to "take". 
A common graft is ornamental or fruit varieties on to a "wild" but related root stock. You get the vigour and disease resistance of the root stock, and the fancy fruit or flowers of the more "delicate" domestic plant.  
The closer related the species, the better your chances? 

[SwampDonkey]

Got the axe instead and hoping the pie cherries don't succumb..

The coons destroyed mine. They was nice pie cherries. Oh well, sigh. :

[SwampDonkey]

Also Mike, from what I have read, the root stock is a big part of the flavour. I know they use a specific root stock that they know the lineage of for grafting certain varieties. They have labelled these stocks, almost like naming a strain of virus. I've seen it in the literature. That's something most , if not all, grafting books aren't going to tell ya. ;)

I know Mr Sharp developed the New Brunswicker apple back 160 years ago. The family kept it going after his death. Then finally no one except people taking scions and starting new trees. These trees have not got the same flavour, they don't cook up the same, no red veins in the meat of them, not soft and juicy when ripe,  and they are smaller apples. We happened to have had the real deal here on the farm, my great grandfather planted. The new kind aren't even close to the real deal. I've got two of the new ones, I can't eat them things. :

[moodnacreek]

Got the axe instead and hoping the pie cherries don't succumb..

The coons destroyed mine. They was nice pie cherries. Oh well, sigh. :

Blame the low fur prices.

[mike_belben]

 :D

i was just thinking a few days ago, "you yotes are lucky fur went out of style" as they howled

[SwampDonkey]

My cousin hunts them for the heck of it, he shot 30 on my ground and neighbor's one fall and never made a dent. :D It's well documented, you shoot a bunch, 'outsiders' move right in. :D

[Tacotodd]

My cousin hunts them for the heck of it, he shot 30 on my ground and neighbor's one fall and never made a dent.

I "almost" never sought them out specifically, but when an opportunity presented itself...it's fun marksmanship proving time.

[SwampDonkey]

I forget if it was a member on here or off the internet highway someplace, but someone had a picture of a shed covered in coyote pelts like house wrap. :D :D Coyote house wrap, non synthetic, from sustainable sources. :D :D

[mike_belben]

Very common tradition among fur folks.  Ive seen pics of whole barns

[SwampDonkey]

Dad covered one side of an old chicken coop with a moose hide back in 1976. ;D

Mom's uncle was a fur buyer, but never covered the buildings in fur hides. :D

[chep]

Mike

Early Spring time before leaf out is the time to graft. You can take scion wood from donors anytime during dormancy just store them in the fridge. Fedco out of maine is a good resource for scion wood. They also have a list of their suppliers. And people usually dont get to upset if you ask them to take a cutting from their fruit trees. 
 

[mike_belben]

Thanks chep.. Seems like i could fiddle with this soon. 

Is there anything known to be a typical partner with black cherry rootstock?  

[DMcCoy]

You would want to stick within the prunus spp. but I'm not sure the compatibility.
Prunus spp. would include your standard stone fruits- cherry, prune, plum, peach and according to the internet almonds.
I would suspect the closer you stay like cherries or prune and plum the better your take.
Ditto's on winter grafting, dormant, no sap.  Just make sure your cambium layers meet.

[Ricker]

After you graft the scion wood, how many years does it take to produce fruit?  I have some wild apple trees that are quite overgrown and they only set a decent amount of apples every couple, three years. Could be something to have a little fun with.

[rlahaise]

After you graft the scion wood, how many years does it take to produce fruit?  I have some wild apple trees that are quite overgrown and they only set a decent amount of apples every couple, three years. Could be something to have a little fun with.

Prune them back a lot and clear anything that is competing for light and they might produce a lot better..
I dit that and also grafted several different types of apple to a bunch of wild trees 20 years ago and they still bear fruit. 

[SwampDonkey]

Last spring the hail in May beat off all the blossoms on a  new apple tree I planted 4 years ago. It also beat them off the plum, that little plum was solid pink with blossoms, not after the hail got done with it. In a more sheltered spot down by the garden, the hail did not do as much damage, had apples. Only thing is, those are the 'supposed' New Brunswicker variety, not much good. Whoever grafted them got the wrong scion and or wrong root stock, because that was a failed experiment on taste and texture. :D

[Don P]

You have "experienced" rootstock, sounds like you can't lose by experimenting with some grafts. Any old good trees around still?

The Judge that owned the big property where we are working collected chestnut and apple trees of many varieties, although there used to be thousands, actually thousands of named varieties. now we have what, a dozen sweet apples. The DOF has a pruning and scion collection day and then grafting classes a few weeks later. The grafting wax they use is the toilet wax rings (NEW!).

[mike_belben]

Brilliant..i have a few of those collecting dust on the oh shart cart.