new WM BMS250MU, won't operate (my issue solved, others still have problems)

Southside · May 18, 2022, 07:54:32 AM

On my machine that sensor will not stop the band advance and I need to keep the second relay manually in the trip position or nothing will work. WM chalked it up to "something in those relays" that they can't get any longer. Sure would like to figure out what the fix is.

newhollandnut · May 18, 2022, 08:24:49 AM

Great information! This may lead to some answers for me. I will do some tests this afternoon and report back. I will also get some pictures of my circuit board and provide those. I'm still not sure what the sensor would have to do with the fuse blowing all the time.

jimbarry · May 18, 2022, 09:08:08 AM

Quote from: YellowHammer on May 18, 2022, 07:50:43 AMThe sensor in mine has a little LED on it to indicate it is working. Does yours not have that? When you get a chance I'd like to know what was the final answer?
Missing or Not Jumpers?
Wrong fuse?
Adjust Sensor?
Else?

For the 2021 model I have, it was the missing jumpers and the shut-off sensor being set too close. And yes, there is a LED that lights up in behind the shut off sensor. For the 2018 model it was the 5A fuse in the F3 position that I changed to a silica sand fuse.

Quote from: Southside on May 18, 2022, 07:54:32 AM
On my machine that sensor will not stop the band advance and I need to keep the second relay manually in the trip position or nothing will work. WM chalked it up to "something in those relays" that they can't get any longer. Sure would like to figure out what the fix is.

Have you checked the shut-off sensor is not set too far back?

Quote from: newhollandnut on May 18, 2022, 08:24:49 AM
Great information! This may lead to some answers for me. I will do some tests this afternoon and report back. I will also get some pictures of my circuit board and provide those. I'm still not sure what the sensor would have to do with the fuse blowing all the time.

The shut off sensor issue and F3 fuse blowing issue might be unrelated.

Southside · May 18, 2022, 12:56:14 PM

Yes, I can put the magnet right against it and it won't change anything. Given the moisture issue mentioned earlier I wonder if it might not be the sensor.

fluidpowerpro · May 18, 2022, 01:31:10 PM

Totally grasping at straws here and maybe just a coincidence, but a few posts back I commented about an earlier experience I had with transient voltage spikes causing issues in a machine.
The issue was that the voltage spikes took out the contacts in a proximity switch. That appears to be exactly what that sensor is. A proximity switch.
Is there a solenoid coil in the system? When coils de-energize, they can put voltage spikes into the system. Kind of like electrical inertia. These spikes are not anything you or I could measure with a typical VOM. The fix was to install a diode around the switch.
If this is the issue, its something the electrical engineers at WM need to look into.

Jim_Rogers · May 18, 2022, 04:47:56 PM

I always had my grinder plugged into a surg strip to try and avoid any electrical issues during lightning storms.

Jim Rogers

Crossroads · May 18, 2022, 11:49:31 PM

My sensor is good, the blade advance is the only thing that is working. I spoke with a WM engineer this morning and have parts on the way. Hopefully they'll make a difference. Currently I have an Elektrik board. Here's one to make you scratch your head. At neutral and L1 I have 122v but at L1 and the ground bus in the bottom of the box I have 163v

Southside · May 18, 2022, 11:57:36 PM

What does ground to neutral read on the outlet? I have seen grounds hot before from bleed.

Crossroads · May 19, 2022, 06:59:27 AM

Ah, never thought to check that , but have 46v ac from neutral to ground.

Machinebuilder · May 19, 2022, 10:47:00 AM

@Crossroads

Please recheck the neutral to ground voltage at your main breaker box.
If you have any voltage there is a serious problem with the bonding and you need to call your power company and get it fixed ASAP.

If it is ok there you have a serious problem with your wiring and it needs to be repaired ASAP

I tend to be overly cautious on electrical safety issues, I hate being shocked.

Crossroads · May 20, 2022, 12:29:58 AM

Quote from: Machinebuilder on May 19, 2022, 10:47:00 AM

@Crossroads

Please recheck the neutral to ground voltage at your main breaker box.
If you have any voltage there is a serious problem with the bonding and you need to call your power company and get it fixed ASAP.

If it is ok there you have a serious problem with your wiring and it needs to be repaired ASAP

I tend to be overly cautious on electrical safety issues, I hate being shocked.

Checked at the outlet and several others and there is no voltage between ground and neutral at the outlets.
Received a new board today, but I got home late and wasn't able to install it. Also, I don't have any 5a fuses. Will update after I get fuses and have a chance to install the new board.

Durf700 · May 21, 2022, 11:56:21 AM

I have an idea for those of you that are having problems.. maybe you should request that Woodmizer sharpens your blades for free including shipping until they can fix these issues that your having with your sharpeners!

I was worried about this kind of stuff with Covid and how it would affect quality and reliability .. I am lucky and was able to get my sharpener a few months before covid hit and then within 4 months of Covid I picked up my setter. its terrible dealing with these issues.

sounds like the sensor that is supposed to detect the magnets on the bands is the issue.. hope that helps alot of people out!

jimbarry · May 21, 2022, 01:40:06 PM

Quote from: Durf700 on May 21, 2022, 11:56:21 AM
I have an idea for those of you that are having problems.. maybe you should request that Woodmizer sharpens your blades for free including shipping until they can fix these issues that your having with your sharpeners!

I was worried about this kind of stuff with Covid and how it would affect quality and reliability .. I am lucky and was able to get my sharpener a few months before covid hit and then within 4 months of Covid I picked up my setter. its terrible dealing with these issues.

sounds like the sensor that is supposed to detect the magnets on the bands is the issue.. hope that helps alot of people out!

Not just magnets, it will detect metal if there' s a bend in the blade.

Crossroads · May 21, 2022, 10:52:56 PM

Got the new board on Thursday, but didn't have time to mess with it until this morning. Installed the new board and the jumpers. Everything is up an running now. Now it's just a matter of getting past the learning curve.

jimbarry · May 22, 2022, 06:48:56 AM

@Crossroads when you get one figured out, you will want two.

https://youtu.be/YgYYHbgQIXA

Old Greenhorn · May 22, 2022, 07:11:04 AM

Well I am truly heartened that this community came together and worked it out to resolve the dead machine issues. I do hope WM is passing these problems and fixes back to the builder to make them go away.
I am still concerned about that transient voltage showing up. This points to a possible design issue where some diodes should have been included in the circuit to avoid leakage, it may work 'most of the time' and in 'most conditions' but then.....
So it came down to the fuse value and type, the jumpers, and then messing with the proximity switch.
SS, it sounds like you still have issues. Any chance WM can send you an updated board? I hate to see new equipment not running right. It should never happen.

One thing is for certain, this thread has become the de-facto source for debugging these issues on this machine.

Jim, that sounds like happy music in your shop.

jimbarry · May 22, 2022, 09:08:15 AM

"pin to the top" worthy maybe.

gmmills · May 22, 2022, 09:23:42 AM

Crossroads Glad you are up and running. The boards that are in question are easily identified. The orientation of fuse position on board is the factor. The problem boards will have the fuse holder in the F4 position and no connection, buss bar, F3 position. F3 pump circuit completely open. Also no jumper wires to 110V and 110VO terminals. The right boards will have fuse holder across F3 and a buss bar, fusible link, across F4. two separate circuits. If WM sends you the proper board as a replacement the jumper wires need to be added to power pump circuit. The harness in machine with problem board will not have these wires.

I have a theory that the problem board in these newest units is designated for installation in European units. 220volts - 50 HZ. The problem board is using one circuit to power grinding motor and oil pump. European models will have 220 grinding motors and pumps. I need to confirm pump voltage. But stands to reason considering European line voltage is 220V. Wire this board to 110V and the fuse is overloaded. 110v motors and pumps will draw twice the amps to operate, let alone start up amp draw. The proper board's separate circuits for pump and motor are individually protected.

Crossroads · May 22, 2022, 11:38:12 AM

Lol, I'm only sharpening for myself, hopefully 1 will be sufficient

jimbarry · May 22, 2022, 01:27:43 PM

Quote from: Crossroads on May 22, 2022, 11:38:12 AM
Lol, I'm only sharpening for myself, hopefully 1 will be sufficient

I thought that too.

Here's what I did for lighting. Battery operated magnetic LED bars on the out feed side. Just the right angle to catch the tooth tips to see if they give off any reflection. Any of that and they have to go through again.

terrifictimbersllc · May 22, 2022, 03:57:58 PM

Get the sharpener and setter both going at once, then make a little mistake.

You don't need 2 sharpeners to get into a heap of trouble.

jimbarry · June 01, 2022, 05:38:57 AM

A fellow from New Brunswick called me over the weekend. He bought a BMS250MU and a BMT250. Trouble out of the box. He's has many years experience of sharpening saw blades for large saw mills and his retirement shop is set up for hand saw filing, and carbide circular saw sharpening.

For the sharpener, all three functions work but it would stop and start. Do a few teeth then stop. Or do half a blade and stop. Over the phone we narrowed it down to the proximity switch. Best way to put it, is that it is way too sensitive. He tried adjusting it all the way back and didn't help. So he took it off its mount and set it aside within the machine. Quickly figured out it was basically laying there on the steel base of the unit next to its mount, triggering it. He wrapped the sensor with a small cloth and bingo. It started up and he proceeded to sharpen an entire blade but since the proximity switch is not a part of the process he has to watch each blade as it comes around. I told him to get the sensor back on its mount, keep it far back from the blade passing by it and put a cloth over it, then see if the machine will sharpen a blade. If it does, leave it like that and use the magnet so that when the magnet comes around it will shut off the cycle for him.

Next up the setter. He said that the mechanism that sets the outside tooth (the one on the left side when facing the machine) was not lined up correctly for 7/8" tooth spaced blades. I told him the setter likely was not set up for 7/8", probably some other one like 3/4". I explained to him about how the left mechanism can be moved closer or further away for different blade tooth spacing.

Hopefully he's good to go. IMHO, yet another example of quality testing failing at the factory level.

YellowHammer · June 01, 2022, 07:08:19 AM

@JimBarry, how are you wiping the excess oil off the band as it exits the sharpener cover? My bands always have some oil dripping off them the they exit, and yours look clean. I've tried various things to wipe the oil off as it exits, but only with varied success.

jimbarry · June 01, 2022, 09:52:35 AM

Quote from: YellowHammer on June 01, 2022, 07:08:19 AM
@JimBarry, how are you wiping the excess oil off the band as it exits the sharpener cover? My bands always have some oil dripping off them the they exit, and yours look clean. I've tried various things to wipe the oil off as it exits, but only with varied success.

The cards are still in place, though worn. I've cut out plastic pieces from a 5 gal bucket and it does the same. What does work well are bristle brushes, like I did here.

There's still mineral oil on the blades so there's a bucket under each arm where the blade makes contact.

When a blade is done I take it out of the clamps and use two scrap pieces of foam to "squeegee" the oil off. Foam pad on each side of blade held in my right hand between thumb and next two fingers, hand over the top of the blade, while the left hand pulls the blade through. Oil drips down to that little screen dirt trap I have there. You'd be surprised how much oil comes off. Dirty oil too. And that is what that little screen tray with scrap piece of cloth is for. To "filter" that dirty oil and it drips through and back into the pan.

Other things I've done is add a plastic curtain to the infeed port

which is a temp solution, while the outfeed port is like this, a piece of luan with a strong magnet.

When the cover goes up and down the magnet is strong enough to keep it in place so it drops right back over the next blade. The purpose of all this is to lessen the spitting of oil that occurs. Eventually I am going to purchase four 4" wide paint brushes and screw them to the inside of the ports to serve the same purpose.
One other thing I am going to try is to re-configure the 4" inline fan I have on top to recycle the air back into the cabinet. Close up all the gaps and then get a short piece of flex hose to go from the fan to one of those rectangular shape openings in the base. I figure the centrifugal force of the fan should be sufficient to keep the mist contained under the canopy.

That cone filter did ok, but now I have a cloth draped over the filter to reduce the mist some more, as it was still making its way into the shop. Original set up was like this,

20210628 sharpening fan for Wood-mizer BMS250S CBN sharpening system - YouTube

johrich · August 09, 2023, 11:34:52 AM

I bought a
BMS250 back in May. I put it together when it arrived, and the motor burned up on my second sharpening. I called and they sent me a new motor. This one burned up. I'm frustrated by now, but they are still trying to resolve my problem. They sent me a 3rd motor and before I ran it very long I kept feeling of it to see if it's getting hot. And sure enough it was. So back on the phone and they sent me out a new circuit board. Well, this didn't work either and I demanded a new machine. It took some emailing and demanding but they sent me another one and paid for the return of the one I had. It's been over 103 degrees here in Texas so I haven't wanted to get out in my barn and set up the new one but today it was tolerable temps this morning so I went out to the barn and assembled the 250. I turned it on and let it cycle for a few minutes with motor running and sure enough the motor got hot. I'm at a loss of what to do. I don't really want to sharpen a blade and the motor completely burn up again or is it normal for the sharpening motor to get hot. So hot it's uncomfortable to touch. Any opinions before I contact WM again?