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What type of logs to practice on?

Started by J Beyer, December 18, 2002, 02:25:10 PM

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J Beyer

What grade of logs would you sawyers recommend someone practice on?  Any log big enough to put on the mill, or get some solid but low-grade logs?

JB
"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

beenthere

What do you mean by "practice"?  Are you going to practice grade sawing? Are you going to be sawing boards, construction lumber, timbers, or ?   Practicing sawing skills?Working with hardwoods or softwoods? Curious, as it may make a difference what grade of log you want on the mill.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Tom

If I were starting all over again,  I would do the same thing I did, even though it seems stupid now.  I got some black gum off of my place and cut 1/2 boards thinking I was doing good.  Then I realized I had nothing to build anything out of.  I then cut some 2x4's out of some Pine tailings that were left from the harvest and then I cut a few pine trees and cut some 2x4's out of them and then my neighbors started to volunteer trees and I had to try to cut what they wanted.  The first step taught me the mill controls.  The second step, working on someone elses' logs, taught me to go get some books.

Don't spend money on good logs to learn, there are too many pieces of wood laying around for free, good and bad.  It won't be long (about 20 logs) before you will lose a lot of your intimidation and be ready saw.

Fla._Deadheader

What kind of books did you end up with?? And don't say paper !! ;) ;)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Weekend_Sawyer

The first log I milled was a white oak but it was real ratty Cut a few 2" planks and made the rest into stickers. Grinning the whole time.
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

sawmill_john

I think the best thing to do is just cut! Cut what you might need, be prepared to make mistakes, and try to learn from them.  After cutting awhile you'll have the base to ask the right questions.  I sure wouldn't go and buy logs to practice on if that is possible.   ::)
Good Luck, if you run into problems you know where to ask questions!

Tom

I went to the library and read everything I could find that pertained to construction wood, logging,sawmilling, etc.  There were DanG few too.  I visited discount bookstores and bought books on log cabins and their joinery, lucked up with a copy of Encycopedia of Wood which is actually a print of the Govt.s wood handbook that can be found at this link
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
I learned a lot from Roy Underhill of Wood Wright fame.
I picked the mind of any old carpenter I found who had delt with rough wood.

I seeked out several local circle mills, brought up a chair and watched every log get sawed.  I offered to help but they didn't want anyone around the saw so I spectated. ;D

I joined a woodworking club and found my most enlightening queries there. They like this wood or that wood or this cut or that cut but didn't know really what they were talking about.  It's amazing how many folks talk about things like quarter-sawed being the best and don't know what quarter-sawed is. ???  I took that information back to the library and found out for myself.  Before long I was their expert.

Your mill is a tool.  It doesn't take too long to learn how to use it.  It's learning the rest of the stuff that makes you a sawyer and keeps you learning from then on.

Fla._Deadheader

Guess I ain't too bright ::) I been searchin the forum for a post a long while back, that had interesting discussion about Quarter sawing. Someone splained a way of doing it by quartering the log first?? I know, I know. Bin out in the son tooo looong.  Any help??

  Reason is, most of the sinkers we get are (should be)  sawn into vertical boards, and, I would like to figger how to get the most with a band mill. Circle is MUCH easier to do.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

Harold,
If you are going to quarter the log then you end up with 4 kinda triangular shaped pieces.  If you saw these one at a time, resting the piece on one of its flats and taking a board off of the bottom you will get a vertical grain board.  Then you turn it over onto the other flat and cut a board off of the bottom of that side. Flip Flopping it and taking boards,alternately off of each flat will produce quarter sawed boards of dimenishing widths that then will need to be trimmed to get the bark edge removed.

There is another way that WoodMizer taught me that produces a fair amount of vertical grain.  It is diagrammed on the following thread.
Quartersawing

J Beyer

Thanks for pointing out a few things I never thought about, like getting all of the books that I can.  Now that I think of it, there are still some logs laying around a friends land that was logged a few years ago.  Some bad, some good, all different diameters and lengths, all white oak.

DanG!  Just remembered that there are a few tree services around that I could get some logs from, one of the cheapest sources around!  If time permits I'll get on the book thing between now and when I leave to start training for the new job.

JB
"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

J Beyer

Forgot to clarify my definition of practice.  By practice I define it as getting used to the controls, learning to grade saw, and how to quarter saw.  I've seen the method of quartering a log and then do the quarter sawing.

JB
"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

Don P

This is my first log sawn, it was kinda special to me so I stuck it in the house. It was across the drive when I got home after a severe ice storm following a week of rain that threw a large number of trees on our place. I bought a mill and haven't looked back. BTW this was a huge old bacterially infected red oak that had shake and a smell that about ran us out of the house when I first stickered it in the living room...junk by any "normal" standards. Makes me grin. The next whack of logs went into the millshed, I think we've counted 9 species there.



Kevin_H.

You are right about the tree services. I get a lot of free logs from them, You may also want to talk to building contractors. I have gotten quite a bit from them as well.

Most of the time the contractors will mark the ones that need to come out and I will go in and drop them and take what I want.

If I know of someone wanting fire wood or if the contractor knows of someone, I will chop the tops up in FW length as a perk.

Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Fla._Deadheader

Thanks, Tom. Taking the bottom board, from a 40" log, quarter, seems like it COULD be a pain. Got to see how Goodwin does it.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

beenthere

Fla_deadheader
Giving Tom's 1/4 sawing technique a try will give you an idea (maybe try a 20" diam a try first) how much recovery you can get. Always cutting the widest face next will take care of any non-circular shapes to the log. Also, all the lumber will be 1/4 sawed and the highest grade will be recovered from the outer portions of the log, contrary to slabbing the log and ending up with the high quality in the slab. Long logs may be a pain to apply this technique to, but that may not be a requirement if 1/4 sawn lumber is the product (as opposed to construction material). Works great with short logs. Getting the 1/2 log and 1/4 sections out of the way can be a hassle, unless one has forks handy.
For a WM, the technique Tom describes works well if you throw a temporary bed on the bunk, with a short fence on the side the blade is pushing towards that is slightly less than the thickness of board you want to saw. The quarters are sawn without having to dog them down. They just lay there against the fence. Then once setting the cutting height to the desired board thickness, it will not have to be changed (re-set) until all four quarters are sawn up and the next log is ready to be quartered. Removing the sawn boards from the bottom of the "1/4" is done when the "1/4" is flipped (rolled) to the widest face (usually a 90 degree flip). Volume recovery is very high, in the 90% range. ( at least that is how I recall seeing it done a few years ago).
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Norm

When I first got my WM we were clearing an area for a pond, there were some old trees that we used for practice. Not really knowing much about sawing we tried out different sizes and lengths. First cut I had my wife and 2 sons watching me, the pressure was on, about half way through the cut the feed rate was too high and it started to bog down. I hit the up/down lever by mistake.

My advice on practice don't have anyone watch.

Noble_Ma

Jeff,

TimberHarvester sells some good tapes on grade and quarter sawing.  Sometimes, it's good to see it done and not just read about it.  They also talk about what woods are best quarter sawn and spend some time showing how to grade the material after it's sawn.  I had watched them a few times before I got my mill and it helped a ton.  I have been lucky enough to not have to pay for any of the wood I've milled so far.  I'm just doing it as a hobby but I bet I have 3000bd/ft stickered in my shed.  Good luck with your mill.

J Beyer

"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

Noble_Ma


whitepe

JB,
Before I got my LT15 I took my logs to a guy about
25-30 miles from here and watched him saw.
I probably went over there about 4 or 5 times with logs.
Then I bought the LT15 and ever since
logs have been falling out of the sky.
This year from March to November I only bought
one log. A black walnut 18 feet 22 inches for $50.
Around March or April I bought Gene Wengert's
video from the sawyers perspective.
I do remember feeling "scared" about cutting my
first log. But believe me, after about 2 or 3 logs
the fear changes to pure satisfaction. Those
guys at Woodmizer make such a good mill it is
hard to screw things up.  I'm not kidding.
Oh yes I forgot. I also watched the LT15 video tape
that came with the mill made by John Hicks.
It is a great tape.    :)
Whitepe

blue by day, orange by night and green in between

J Beyer

Whitepe,

Sent you a private mesage regarding your mill.

JB
"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

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