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Author Topic: Hydrogen/Brown's gas  (Read 21967 times)

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Offline sparky

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #60 on: April 29, 2008, 09:33:29 PM »
I am still confused, but now I am confused at a much higher level!
I'tnl 2050 with Prentrice 110, Custom built 48" left-hand circular and 52" Bellsaw right-hand circular mills, Jonsered 2171, Stihl 084, and too many other chainsaws. John Deere 3020 and Oliver 1800 with FELs. 20" 4-sided planer and misc.

Offline sparky

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #61 on: April 29, 2008, 09:46:30 PM »
The following mention was made in one post:

"The only issue being, the whole intake tract from turbo to manifold
will be charged with compressed explosive gases."

This is a common misconception. As it turns out, the small amount of
hydroxy gas from a booster, in comparison to the much larger amount
of intake air, dilutes the hydroxy gas to well below the flammability
limits for hydrogen. Thus, no explosion can occur. This is also why
waste spark has no effect on boosted engines, while it can be
detrimental to engine running on hydroxy gas alone."

In my previous life (before retirement), I was involved with industrial processes that used bulk hydrogen. The lower flamibility level (LFL) for hydrogen is 4%. This means that a 4% concentration will ignite. I am curious as to the hydrogen concentration in the airstream feeding into the turbo?

I'tnl 2050 with Prentrice 110, Custom built 48" left-hand circular and 52" Bellsaw right-hand circular mills, Jonsered 2171, Stihl 084, and too many other chainsaws. John Deere 3020 and Oliver 1800 with FELs. 20" 4-sided planer and misc.

Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #62 on: April 29, 2008, 10:42:55 PM »

 The boosters are mixed Hydrogen-oxygen gasses. If run through the turbo, the water vapor will eat away the turbo blades and cause a catastrophic failure. Best to vent the gasses in the manifold.

  I have straight Hydrogen info for engine amounts per cylinder, straight gas, no other fuel. There is much speculation on exact amount needed for mixed gas-Hydroxy. .
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2008, 07:43:45 AM »

 Any updates on satisfaction, MPG increase on that Yota, Ron ??
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   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2008, 04:55:44 PM »
I"m fairly satisfied with my hydrogen boost.  I'm getting a solid 25 mpg for my normal driving.  Today, I had a long drive.  On the way to my destination I only got 22 mpg.  On the way back I got 27 mpg.  It was mainly open highway driving in rolling hillside. 

I'm mainly impressed with my town driving.  My milage is better around town than it is on the interstate.  I've already hit 32 mpg on a trip to town.  The best highway miles was today at 27.  Normally its between 22 and 23 mpg to work, which is mostly interstate driving.  My milage increases as I slow down.

I think the reason is that a booster will put out a set amount of hydroxy gas per minute.  But, your car/truck is burning fuel at a different rates dependent on speed and load.  As a result, your higher speeds actually have less hydroxy for a given amount of fuel as does your lower speeds.  In other words, there's no way to throttle hydroxy production.   

What is now the newest development is where you actually tie into your Map/Maf sensor.  These use a very low voltage and regulate the amount of air/fuel mixture.  Using a pensiometer, they are now regulating that voltage and trying to fool the computer.  The drawback is if you get it too lean, you can burn a piston. 
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2008, 05:21:11 PM »

 Sounds like it's maybe working ??  Have you changed the way you drive, as in, not as heavy a foot, and less jackrabbit starts, that may be contributing to the better MPG ???

  Have you messed any at all with retarding the timing a little ???  Hydrogen burns so fast, it really doesn't do much good at firing way before TDC.

  On diesels, the timing is actually retarded to AT TDC or a little later yet ???

  Have you tried to see what the output is from the booster, in Liters per minute ???

  Are you running a 4 cyl. or 6 cyl engine ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2008, 04:50:20 PM »
I'm running a 4 cyl Tacoma.  I haven't done any jack rabbit starts in a long time.  Mainly because I haven't had a cool muscle car in a long time.   :D

We haven't messed with the timing.  Would that be necessary since its not just hydrogen being produced?  Production is rated at 2 liters/min, but I haven't really measured it. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline ronwood

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2008, 06:02:24 PM »
Ron,

Could you put a second unit in that would kick in at the higher speeds to give you some added boost?

Ron P.
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
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Online Don P

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2008, 07:03:09 PM »
Assuming a 2 liter engine running at 2000 rpm = 4000 liter/min.
You're burning hydrogen at a blend of 1 part in 2000  ???
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Offline Fla._Deadheader

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2008, 09:11:41 PM »

 No Don, 2 liters a min is total output. Divide that up by the engine size, and, it doesn't take much hydrogen to help a bit.  8)

 Ron, it won't hurt to try a LITTLE retarding. That will help the engine get a complete burn of the gasoline. Hydrogen flashes faster than gasoline and burns MUCH faster AND 3 times hotter. An adjustable circuit, might help the engine at higher speed, also. Did any of y'all go to any of the sites I provided links to ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Offline rowerwet

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Re: Hydrogen/Brown's gas
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2008, 12:06:03 PM »
when it is burning Hydrogen will eat metal. My dad worked on the space shuttle engine compressor disks. they have liquid Hydrogen running up the inside of the disk (which is a pump) and burning hydrogen on the out side of the disk. The burning hydrogen would remove metal from the disk until they coated them with Gold. Obviously your engine is at a lower temp burning , but the long term effect will be the same. And the space shuttle engines are only rated for a few hours of use over thier life.
Husky 460, Fiskars x27, X7


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