Crossbow for 2023 Season

[WV Sawmiller]

   As bad as I hate to admit it old age is catching up with me and I am no longer comfortable shooting my 60 lb compound bow so decided to look for a decent crossbow. Our state lets us use a crossbow instead of a bow or a rifle. The only time we can't use one is during the week of muzzleloader season.

 Our local sporting goods place in Beckley WV ran a sale on their crossbows last week so I went down and picked up a relatively inexpensive Killer Instinct BC 415 model. The 415 indicates feet per second. It came with a rope cocker and a crank cocker which I thought I needed and may in the future but at this point the rope works fine.

 I made several mistakes assembling it and had the cables on top instead of in the slot below which significantly decreases accuracy and increases wear and tear on the arrows which is why the fletching is ripped off my decocking arrow and why my first shot is 3' above the target, missing the lower fletching and holding a bale of 3-4 year old hay in the side of my hay barn. I may eventually be able to retrieve it but will leave it there for the time being. I had to come back inside, remove the quiver mount, foot loop and bow portion and install it correctly. It works a whole lot more better now! I was using the 3 cheap bolts that came with but bought 6 more good Carbon Express bolts for hunting. Once I get it sighted in with the cheap provided bolts I'll fine tune it with the hunting bolts.

 I bought a good target at a flea market a few weeks back in anticipation of a future crossbow purchase and it seems to be working well. I started sighting it in from 10 yards and the elevation looked good but it took me a long time to move it 6" to the left mostly because I was using the scope illuminator knob instead the windage adjustment. Once I figured that out I got it to within an inch of dead center and will move to the 20 yard line and start fine tuning tomorrow. I was using an old sawhorse as a shooting stand but will adjust that too for better comfort.


 

The stock looks like an AR adjustable type but it is actually fixed. I wish it was but you get what you pay for. The scope is a fixed 4X32 model. The illuminated model is new to me and i will see how I like that. I still need to pick up or transfer a good sling for it. The mounts are already there. I also need a case and can pick up one of them pretty cheap at Wal Mart, the store where I got it or at a flea market or pawn shop.

 I am excited to see how this works out.

[YellowHammer]

I shoot a crossbow in addition to a compound and when it's set right, I never shoot at the same bullseye with successive bolts at least out to 25 yards for Robin Hooding the bolt already in the target. 20 yards and it shoots to nearly the same hole.  Spooky accurate. 

One thing I've learned is that seeing the hit in the deer is important for tracking purposes, and the thing is so fast it can't often be seen in flight or impact.  So I put some lighted nocks on the hunting bolts and when the string releases it causes the nock to light up and it looks like a laser beam.

I use expanding broad heads on mine because the fixed blade heads will plane at the high velocities of a crossbow, even ones with smaller blade like Thunderheads, and cause the bolt to float and fly erratically.  I'd recommend crossbow rated heads or the blades will shear off like tinsel on impact.  

I'd also recommend a fletchless de cocker arrow, if the bow is tuned correctly, the fletch less arrow will have the same point of impact out to about 15 yards, just like a compound bow tuning arrow.  So I will shoot them to decock to verify nothing has been knocked loose after every trip.  

[Southside]

Why do I envision stories of a flaming bolt coming out of a tree stand that strikes a new 4 wheeler accompanied by a chipmunk hightailing it off in the other direction with a cocking string wrapped around his back foot?  :D

[Walnut Beast]

Yellowhammer is spot on advice. Have fun and good luck 👍

[beenthere]

Been quite happy with my Mathews Mission 360 MXB crossbow for the last 12 years, and look forward to hunting again with it soon. Most deer taken in the 30 yard range, but a couple at 40 yard no problem. The lighted nocks are great. 

Started hunting with a fiberglass straight bow just 60 years ago this year. Bow hunting has changed a whole bunch since those days. 

[YellowHammer]

Here's a 3 second video of me trying the lighted nocks for the first time near dark a few years ago.  I had the camera set so it's basically looking down the crossbow exactly like my shooting point of view.  That was a 35 yard shot out out building, across the parking lot, at a target, and you can see how fast and flat they shoot and even hear the impact of the bolt into the target.  I was impressed...

So @Southside isn't too far off..... :D :D

HHA Crossbow - YouTube

[WV Sawmiller]

Robert,

   Thanks for the advice. I am already well on my way to the nockless decocking arrow. I had planned to use the hunting points from my bow and have started out with the matching weighted practice points - 125 grain instead of the 100 grain points that came with it.

Southside,

   I knew there would have to be at least one NaySayer. May the fleas from a thousand camels infest your tent! ;D

    Of course I opened my e-mail today and found an ad from the store where they dropped the price on the same crossbow another $10. The story of my life. :(
 

[jb616]

I use a practice bolt and small decocker target to unload my crossbow. I have destroyed too many bolts by firing them into the ground to decock. Even the heavy fiberglass bolts that are made to use for that get destroyed over time. Illuminated nocks are a must to see shot placement. These weapons are devastating to game as i have never had a buck go more than 50 yards which is a trophy aspect of the hunt for me as well. I have found that the Exodus fixed blade broadhead with the swept blades are extremely accurate as well. Enjoy your new toy weapon.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I sighted it in with the cheap bolts that came with it only I used 125 gran practice points because my hunting tips are 125 grain. I could get dead center shots at 20 yards but when I backed up my groups were less consistent even though I used the tic marks below the cross for elevation adjustments as described in manual. I could not get as good groups at 30 and 40 yards.

   I switched to my hunting bolts which are about 100 grains heavier. I expected to have to adjust the elevation but found I did not and my groups improved considerably. I can consistently make kill shots  out to 40 yards. I have not tried it at 50 yards and may not. My placement of my hunting blinds and feeders will certainly bring them within 40 yards. All the deer I killed with my bow were at 20 yards or less.

  I may need to update my redneck range finders - plastic flagging tape tied out at measured distances around my shooting houses. :D

[YellowHammer]

Are you getting any indication that the arrows are wobbling or the bow needs timing or tuning?  Sometimes long range accuracy is also a function of spine.

Typically, longer range shots with a crossbow shows up as "tuning" either bows or arrows because the bolts will have straight fletch and aren't spin stabilized.

 

[WV Sawmiller]

Robert,

   I have not noticed any timing or tuning issues and hope I don't as I have no idea how to tune a crossbow. There is no troubleshooting tips that address or describe tuning my bow and I assume they would say take it to an approved dealer. I know moving the nocking point on a bow will help tune it. I know improperly aligned or unequal weighted fletching would affect the arrows flight but they seem to be entering pretty much straight on so I take that as a good sign.

   I am assuming the heavier Carbon Express bolts have a stiffer spine which is helping improve the groupings.

   Any particular indicators I should be looking for?

[Walnut Beast]

Assuming your cam timing is right. Take a magic marker and make a line or dot on each side of your string and keep an eye on it. If the cams really get out past the lines take it in 

[Walnut Beast]

There are various charts to match your speed/ poundage to arrows

[WV Sawmiller]

Assuming your cam timing is right. Take a magic marker and make a line or dot on each side of your string and keep an eye on it. If the cams really get out past the lines take it in

Got a video of that?

[Walnut Beast]

No. Just put in cam timing and pick somebody you think knows what they are talking about 😂

[WV Sawmiller]

   I am still working on sighting in my crossbow and mostly learning the elevation marks to use. I skimmed a bolt right over the top of my bag target and it went between the 2 hay bales as back up and hit the side of my hay barn. It was very impressive! At 40 yards with a practice point it will went 12" deep through a solid 1" poplar board. It appears to have been undamaged  till I got too close with my drill bit freeing it and cut a thin groove but enough to ruin it. With a hunting point a deer would never known he had been shot unless I hit a large bone. I've shot them like that with my bow and have them run a few yards and have them stop and look back to see what spooked them, stand there a few seconds then fall over dead from internal bleeding. I can see/predict that as normal with this outfit.

[Southside]

Well at least you know you can hit the broad side of a barn with it.  :D

[YellowHammer]

There are clues to see and hear to tell how either a crossbow or bow is shooting to indicate that improvement can be made.

With a double cam crossbow, or an older style double cam bow, timing the cams is crucial, as that's when they break over and can impart unsymmetrical loads on the nock and so the arrow.  There should be a notch on the cam to get you close, but the best way is if you have a bow press is to release the bow and twist one cable and reset the bow.  Twisting the cable (not the bow string) will either shorten or lengthen it, and normally a new bow has its cables twisted and untwisted a couple turns by a pro shop to see how the arrow flight is effected.  The best "twist" will result in the best flight and that's when the cams are timed correctly.

Then the correct arrow spine for the weight head should be selected and practice points, bullet tips, with weights on either side should be shot for groups.  So if you've spined the shaft for 120 grains then you shoot 110, 120 and 130 tips and see which groups best.  Hopefully the 120 will group best, if not then time to change spine or change weight heads to proceed with.  Then comes the head insert alignment.  Newer inserts are supposed to be easy to align but the way to check is to put a boadhead tip in with no blades, hold the arrow vertically on its tip on a glass or metal surface, and spin the shaft very rapidly like it's a top. If done correctly, it will actually stand on its tip like a top for a second or two, and if the arrowhead insert is aligned correctly, the spinning arrowhead will look like it's not spinning, as there will be absolutely zero wobble.  If not, if there is any wobble, then the insert must be removed and reset.  

Once the arrowhead insert is aligned, then the nock insert is aligned by pulling it in and out to reseat, or swapping the insert with another one.  

At that point, with bullet practice points, you should be shooting extremely tight groups and notice that some arrows are magic and fly perfect every time and others are erratic.  So put the good ones aside and keep working on the flyers until they are as good as you can get.

Then put the broadheads on and shoot the very good arrows and if everything is correct, the broad heads will shoot almost perfect point of impact as the target heads.  If not, then  there is generally a nock alignment issue, or a spine problem.  

If everything is good, you will still notice that at longer ranges, a few arrows always fly perfectly and bullseye and some others are consistently not as accurate.  Take a Sharpie and number the best as 1,2,3 and those are your hunting arrows and the rest are your coyote or practice arrows.  There is no better comfort than when that big old 10 point buck walks in front of you, arrow #1 is nocked and ready to shoot.  

Anyway, that's just some of how to tune, a good Pro Shop can help and so does just shooting and adjusting.  When it's right, you should see almost nothing but the knock getting smaller when you shoot, with no noticeable wobble of the arrow or bolt in flight.  

[WV Sawmiller]

  All the above suggestions sounds great and sounds like a competition shooter at work.

I don't have a bow press but could probably jury rig one from a couple of old pipe clamps I got that the flea a couple weeks ago but then I'd probably be posting something else to the "Did something Dumb" thread (again) and I better stay away from there for a while.

 I confess if I can consistently get good hits in a 2-3 inch circle from 40 yards and 1-2 inch from 30 yards I'll feel comfortable enough to hit a 5" kill zone and just won't take shots beyond my comfort zone, which I would not anyway. As I mentioned before all my bow kills have been at about 20 yards or less so I can get them in close enough. At my age and temperament I'm fine with a young buck or two or a big old barren doe for the freezer and that's all I'm hunting for. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   I cranked off a few shots from 30 and 40 yards just before dark. Amazingly the same (first) elevation mark seems to be placing the bolt inside the 3" bullseyes/spots I aiming at from both ranges so I'd trust it for hunting at those ranges.

 I told an old HS buddy of mine about my crossbow. He is a character and worked all over the southern USA mostly as a safety guy with the oil companies then came home and worked on the county road maintenance department where we were raised till he retired a few years ago.

 When I told him about the crossbow he said he had a co-worker one time who had another guy come feed his dogs while he was out of town for a few days. The buddy noticed a crossbow in the dog owner's shed/garage and had never shot one but decided to try it out. He put up a piece of plywood as a target and shot not realizing how powerful it was. The bolt went all the way though the board and through the neighbor's window behind the target. To make matters worse the neighbor was a real character and quick thinking. He staggered out of the back door screaming with the fletching in the bolt sticking out of his chest. The shooter promptly passed out and woke up with the neighbor gently slapping his face and laughing. Apparently he had immediately grabbed the bolt and clamped it under his arm and ran out screaming. My buddy said that was the only time the guy ever fired a crossbow and there is no way he will try again!

[barbender]

Howard that story reminds me of something a buddy of mine did once. Now this buddy doesn't have the sharpest powers of judgement, as this story will illustrate- when he was around 14n he had a little recurve that he was going around the yard, shooting clods of grass or whatever caught his eye. Well for some reason he got the notion to stick an arrow in the side of their house's T-111 siding. So he took a shot at the house, problem was the arrow went right in through the open bathroom window. In that bathroom his mom and her sister were fixing their hair and getting ready for some function. Thankfully it missed both of them, and stuck right in the bathroom door🤦🤦  I wish I could've seen the looks on their faces when they saw that arrow in the door, wondering where the heck it came from! My buddy probably got his head knocked around for that one, although it never seemed to help other than it made the people who he upset feel a little bit better🤷

[Magicman]

I pulled a similar stunt with some ketchup and a butcher knife in the kitchen many years ago.  The kids watched and helped me, but PatD did not and still does not find it amusing.    :-[

[WV Sawmiller]

I pulled a similar stunt with some ketchup and a butcher knife in the kitchen many years ago.  The kids watched and helped me, but PatD did not and still does not find it amusing.    :-[

Some wimmin just ain't got no sense of humor! :D

[WV Sawmiller]

 

 

 
30-35 yards from my kitchen window. They will be legal game in 9 days. Actually the 2 yearling are pretty safe but their granny and older brothers better be careful.  

[WV Sawmiller]

   I told my mower repair guy, who loves to hunt and fish, about the stunt the man with the wayward crossbow bolt under his arm played and he said he has one customer who bought a Sasquatch suit and periodically makes a round in front of his SIL trail cameras. I can see where that would keep him off balance. Maybe I need to dress Sampson up in a rare animal outfit and send him around to start more rumors.  :D

[beenthere]

Prolly all heard of the guy dressed up in such a costume, and was killed. Funny trick goes bad. iirc he jumped out of the bush along a trail or road, and a vehicle hit him. 

This might have been the one. 
Montana Man Killed During Bigfoot Hoax - ABC News

[WV Sawmiller]

    Well it has finally cooled off enough to let meat hang and chill before cutting so I decided to go try out my new crossbow. I am happy to report I made a kill on my first hunt and with my very first shot. :D



Unfortunately after 4 hours in my shooting house I decided to pack it in. I replaced my hunting arrow with my decocking bolt and stepped out on my little porch/landing and this little grey squirrel hopped up at the base of one of the trees with my feeder cable. He had tried to get in the house with me an hour earlier. I decided what the heck and got him in my crosshairs and let fly. Even with  the heavy weight and odd shaped point it nailed him dead center. I guess instead of grilled tenderloins we'll be having squirrel and dumplings. :D It kind of made me feel like those outdoor shows where the guys in Alaska or Montana or such go out moose or caribou hunting but don't get one so they shoot a grouse or two on the way home. ;)


 

I did spend the first 1.5 hours with this little doe fawn. My feeder went off at 7:00 a.m. and at 7:02 a.m. I heard crunching in the dark below me as she ate the corn. I don't know where her mom was and would not have shot it with a fawn along anyway but she stayed till she cleaned up the corn I guess. 

   Back at home my wife said a doe and a very late term spotted fawn about the size of my Rat Terrier came out at the house. She said it was very red and still spotted. Most fawns this time of year look like the one in the picture above so that one has to be late. I hope it makes it through the winter.

   I may try my other stand this afternoon.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I was talking with my son the other day about crossbows and something he said made me decide to change my zero from 20 to 30 yards. I will check it  at 40 yards tomorrow but once I got it zeroed I checked and found mine shoots 2" high at 20 yards so aiming center mass for a lung shot should be effective no matter if I misjudge the distance by 10-12 yards. From what I am observing very few of my shots will be beyond 30 yards.

I have several locations with shots steeply downhill so I'm thinking holding dead on should do the trick.

The bucks are moving well for the rut here now but I have some work conflicts for the next couple of days and don't have the time to work on one. Rifle season starts Monday if I don't get one before then.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I got out this afternoon and tried it at 40 yards and the zero is basically the same as 30 yards. I tried it at 50 yards and I had about a 6" drop. That surprised me to see that much difference from the 40 yard performance.

[Ron Scott]

Are you shooting with a scope with range lines?

[WV Sawmiller]

Ron,

   I assume that is what they are called but yesterday and today I was just using the main scope lines. I sighted them in at 30 yards then when I used them at 20 yards I hit about 2" high and at 40 yards I hit about the same as at 30 yards. My one attempt (2 shots) from 50 yards both hit 6" low. What that tells me is shooting dead center at the lungs of a broadside deer anywhere between 20-40 yards I should make a quickly mortal hit.

   I was not using the little tic marks/range lines but now that I know where the bolt will strike I could use them. I'll likely make a couple more shots from the 50 yard line to verify the drop but it was a steady shot using a sawhorse as a shooting bench and all were very consistent.  I am not using "match" grade highly tuned bolts but just out of the box shafts with 125 grain field points. 

   I seriously doubt I would be shooting at those ranges and shots of 15-25 yards are certainly going to be my norm.