iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Another build thread... JoshNZ

Started by JoshNZ, August 04, 2019, 08:52:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Crusarius

jUST keep in mind now you have a custom cylinder. If it fails you cannot just grab one from the local hydraulic shop. You will be stuck till you remachine a new one.

Ljohnsaw

I see it now (said the blind man to the deaf mute...) 

To me, cutting and re-threading would be a no-go, even though I have a lathe.  I'm not that skilled.  Cutting and re-welding the bracket - yes. 

I agree to put it in the same location as the old orange one.  You are worried about your throat depth of cut - I don't think you need to be.  I set up mine do do about a 20" depth. ::)  On a very wide log, the most I've done is 4".  On something around 16-20", I've done 7".  The big 8x12 posts and beams are what's left after you remove the side wood.  I didn't understand that when I designed my mill.  I've since added a support between the hubs and reduced my clearance to 9-10".  I only bumped it once trying to cut a bunch of 2x without removing the stack.  Pretending I'm a professional using a WM!  Redoing the mount and hanging the full cylinder would not be a problem for clearance, IMO.

However, shortening the rod would be a more elegant and lighter weight solution.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

RAYAR

Is there not a very short ram available?
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

charles mann

Josh, 
Could you not mount it on back side of the beam, and low? It would not eliminate as much anti-tq as where you want to put it, but it'd still limit some of it. I mean, its your build, but taking an off the shelf item, heavily modding it now makes that a custom piece and a drastic bit of down town to mod the next 1, if the custom 1 fails for whatever reason. Granted i have seen any of those rams fail, but im positive some have failed. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Vautour

If you look at some of the big manufacturers all they did was use the ram with gauge and have a threaded rod that pushes against the ram (no need of the pump) my build is the same as yours and the ram will be attached to the main beam and the threaded rod (acme tread) will be attached on the "sliding out" part. turning the acme rod will push against the ram to the desired PSI... simple solution with less clutter.     
the Gospel is WANTED by the people in 52 Countries but made illegal by their Government

JoshNZ

I've had the modified cylinder holding up the back of the forklift for 12hrs now, no leaks through the welds or seals. I maxed out the lift until the handle just barely went hard then figured I'd know how much leaked past the seals in the morning by how much the handle swung before it went hard again, but it was still hard, so that is good news.



 

Obviously went a different way from what I was describing but achieved the same result. I've taken quite a bit off the butt of the cylinder because it's a waste, and then parted out a section of the cylinder and rewelded.



 

 

One thing I didn't consider was that the spear itself would be hollow. I parted the excess off the lathe and found myself staring down the bore right through the centre of the seal =/.

So I pulled all the seals made a cap for the shaft, switched to Tig to reduce spatter and sealed it up. If I was going to do this all again I'd Tig the whole lot, and I'd use a rotary positioner. I toyed with making one out of the old RA anchor winch driven with a drill, I might still yet. But I got impatient.



 

Vautour that is an awesome idea. Id prob have done that if I thought of it haha although I don't trust ram seals to seal 100% forever, seen too many weeping rams. You would still need to own a pump though it wouldn't need to live on the mill?

To the ram modding comments, there is a 10mm stroke ram available for about $100, not enough stroke for stretched bands. A 50mm stroke one for nearly $300, which would work but was getting expensive. This one was about $100, online (there is no hydraulic shop that sells rams off the shelf in these parts). I've scoured the internet for other options, this is where I arrived. It was more work than I thought but still much less than a complete teardown and re setup of the carriage to rework the beam. I only want to do that one more time, when I paint it. Of course I could go to the city and ask a hydraulic shop to make what I need but they'd charge me a limb and essentially I'd end up with something like what I've got here.

Honestly I think if this ram fails ill be finished with hydraulic tensioning anyway. I did see a hydraulic pump come up really cheap (nz$30!) I thought a cool way to do this would be to run a pressure regulator between the ram and the pump so it self regulates tension. Then have hydraulic capability too but decided to leave it.

So this ram has a big mortise in the bottom of it (ugly off-centre chattered twist drill Chinese job), I'll weld a tenon on the foot on my mill then it can sit right on there, I might grub screw the base of the ram so it stays put.

JoshNZ

 

 



It's a heap easier to deal with than the floor jack, a bit more elegant. I have installed the pump on top, it's nice to have a permanent handle and valve.
I'm hoping I'll be able to get a T connector to put between the hose and cylinder for the gauge to go on, and will do away with the bracket.



 

I'll probably get that hose shortened and maybe clip it somewhere away from the engine pulley.

Also got my last bunks on. I just need an arm to secure that extension for travel and then I can put it back to work and try things out.




@Crusarius I don't envy your 24ft bed or whatever it is, I don't imagine moving full length cants on this bed alone will be much fun!

Crusarius

:) I know that the 12' logs I have to manually move is definitely a handful. I have found myself using the tractor bucket and chain more often. Definitely makes rolling them easier but challenging to get just right. I need to add a log turner.

Crusarius

I did actually think about loading 2 logs at a time and cutting them together. But then I found that to be to labor intensive trying to keep my cuts straight.

JoshNZ

I'm pretty lucky to have the use of a forklift. Not an ideal tool but sure better than nothing.

I've been looking at this lift motor again, i have a 500W 12V motor that spins about twice the speed, I'd need a ~25:1 reduction to use it. I've come up short on my search for anything reasonably priced, don't suppose anyone knows of something that might work?

Vautour

@ JoshNZ are you talking about raising and lowering your head assembly??... my father has a WM lt15 and added a 4wheeler winch motor to raise it but it's very slow.. and when i told him i was building a sawmill .. first thing he said was make sure you make it go up and down fast..so i did.. i'm about 6 sec. per foot now with electric and eventually add hydraulic lift and double that speed. 
the Gospel is WANTED by the people in 52 Countries but made illegal by their Government

JoshNZ

Yep that's what I'm talking about. That sounds awfully quick! My screws turn at ~180RPM and they are 3mm pitch. Gives 540mm/min and that is pretty good for working cuts, just not so good after finishing a log and resetting. Seems like it'd be hard hitting your mark at 1ft/6sec which is what 3m/min nearly 6x the speed of mine.

That sounds like it's hurtling =[]. What's everyone else's raise/lower speed? I have a 500w 12v motor here that does about 6000RPM with no load I think. Say 5000 under load. And I have a 16T pinion and a 78T spur gear to match which would give about what you have, 3m/min. A bit less if it loaded more.

Is that really the speed commercially available machines work at? The other thing I was wondering about is doing away with a spur gear and running a timing belt around timing pulleys instead. To smooth/quieten it down. Would they handle the torque?

RAYAR

Quote from: Vautour on January 25, 2020, 02:32:57 PM
.. i'm about 6 sec. per foot now with electric
I have a manual crank that goes 1" per revolution and I figure I'm crankin' about that speed. Not bad for manual as I see videos of some sawyers cranking about 4X per inch of travel on their manual mills ... WoW!
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

JoshNZ

Bit different when you can slow down winding as you come up on your target. Id like to try it now! If it's functional I'd be super glad to be able to use the hardware I have already

Jack S

just  add a dc speed controller. I recently bought one good for 12-24-36 volts and 60 amps full load for less than $20 free shipping.  forward reverse and center off, and a potentiometer for speed control, digital readout showing 0- 100 percent. I just installed it to run a geared mobilty cart motor that I installed on my Lm 29 norwood  mill to run the carriage. so far the speeds are ok but the true test will be when I put a log on the mill.
I also used a harbor freight 12 volt winch to power the head up and down and it works very well.

 

  

charles mann

Quote from: Jack S on January 29, 2020, 07:03:11 PM
just  add a dc speed controller. I recently bought one good for 12-24-36 volts and 60 amps full load for less than $20 free shipping.  forward reverse and center off, and a potentiometer for speed control, digital readout showing 0- 100 percent. I just installed it to run a geared mobilty cart motor that I installed on my Lm 29 norwood  mill to run the carriage. so far the speeds are ok but the true test will be when I put a log on the mill.
I also used a harbor freight 12 volt winch to power the head up and down and it works very well.

 

  
Can you put up the links to the speed controller? Iv been looking for 1 that is good for fwd/rev and when id ask the question of if it can be used in a fwd/rev setup, i got an answer of, im not sure, we dont have that info. 
I took am thinking of a winch. Its way over kill, but iv got a 12k hf winch that i burned the brake up when i operated in line in mode bc my cable got rat nested and i didnt want to uncouple my tck and drag the cable out. I learned afterwards, that continuous line out under a heavy load will in fact burn the brake out. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Jack S

EBAY LINKS NOT ALLOWED 

they are also on amazon.   the only downside that I can see is it is recommended that you also do a dead start which means always return the pot back to zero before  activating the forward or reverse I"ve been playing around with old treadmill motors and speed controllers also. they have to be dead start also. we can't easily use them on our mills tho as they are all 110 volt in then converted to 0-90 volts dcto themotor. I have one on my wood lathe and it works really well. Just bought another one today $5

Jack S


charles mann

@JoshNZ 
Hows the build coming? Out of the 2.5 wks home, waited 2 wks for some machining and still waiting. Hopefully my 5" backside idler pulley will be finished in the next 3 wks while im at work. Took 5 days to get the output shaft milled for 2 key ways. Im so close to being able to put a belt on it, i can taste it. But gotta have the idler pulley first and build the bracketry for it, then i can figure out how long of a belt i need. Initially, i needed a 150" 3/5v, but now, im thinking 160"+. 
I was productive at least on another mill helper and wood gatherer. Will post a vid when i get back to the states. It'll make lite work for lifting/loading and yarding 3000-7000 lb logs. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

JoshNZ

Is this an attachment for your tractor?

You really need to get a lathe and mill in your shop huh!

Not a great deal going on in my workshop, been away on holiday a week. I did get the little stand for the extension done, it lays on the beam that makes the draw bar when not in use from memory. Then props the extension with a 1/4" gap or so before the tracks collide. Sits on a little ledge on the post then secured with same 20mm bolt as carriage lockers.



 


 

It's actually been great for working on the top of the carriage. Good solid place to stand.

I started messing with this other motor and gears today. I turned an adapter for the pinion, bored out the gear and welded in a new hub and turned to size. I think I buggered my vice pressing the pinion this time, I really should get a press. I had to re-machine the faceplate and cut the old bracket off so there's no going back now. If the math is right the carriage is going to haul butt. I've spent way too long scouring the internet for the right fit, I'm just gonna try this and go from there.
That winch has spent hours groaning away trying to pull our boat to the bottom of the ocean, I'm sure it's up to it regardless.












.

One photo there shows the old gear, the new setup will be much heavier duty anyway.

Getting a bit beyond a mill build and repetitive now =[]. This is something on it I'd like to get right

Crusarius

Looking good. how did you build the hinge bar that looks like 2 pieces of flat plate with a spacer in the center? How bout a closer pic?

charles mann

Nah, no tractor attachment, just another type of tractor. I get hm in early mar and ill post a vid. Iv gotta move my logs anyways, get the set up on some RR cross ties, then do some clean up and bring in a couple loads of rock and asphalt millings for a base where im going to initially set up the mill.


And yes, a mill and lathe is becoming a must, or find another machine shop. 
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

JoshNZ

Quote from: Crusarius on February 08, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
Looking good. how did you build the hinge bar that looks like 2 pieces of flat plate with a spacer in the center? How bout a closer pic?
Exactly as you said, nothing special about it. I thought the 12mm I had was thicker than necessary so decided to buy some 5mm flat. Decided that wasn't thick enough once I had it and that's where I ended up hah. A sandwich of 5mm bar with beads along each spacer. There's slots in the extension end to allow the tracks to square up and close the gaps (hidden under washers in that photo), and I welded a sleeve in the pivot end then machined it flat, which slides over the trunnion which has a threaded hole. Just a bolt to retain it.










The trunnion has a shoulder holding the arm 5mm off the mills side, and there's a 5mm doubler welded to the extension which gave extra meat for thread. Then there is a bevelled doubler at the end of the mill frame which I have greased (you can see it in the top left of last photo there), and the arms slide over them and centre everything really snugly. The extra rigid sandwich arms actually ended up being really good for this. I'm pretty happy with it.

I got the motor bracket made and installed today. I'll leave it tacked this time in case I want to change it. I'll put a video below, what do you guys think? It's definitely honking... I seem to be able to hit marks alright though, and it's not too difficult to jog 1mm at a time.
It comes down at 3320mm/min and up at 2240mm/min. 131"/min down and 88"/min up. 1foot in 5.5sec coming down, to compare it to vautours. Certainly going to make resetting easier.

Lift - YouTube

Crusarius

perfect solution. thanx for the added info. I may have to do something similar for my extensions but I still like the idea of hinging them from the corners of the bed to fold in. all I want them for is to support the head so they do not need to be that strong,

JoshNZ

Well 200kg of head with its CoG a meter off the end of the hinge is 980Nm or 720ft.lbs on each hinge so don't go too light =[]. I don't think you'd get away without supporting it at the other end which will mean it has to be adjustable for unlevel ground etc. I like the foldaway idea too more elegant in terms of packing down but I'd rather slam it open and be done with it.

Thank You Sponsors!