How fast can I go?

Dave Shepard · April 10, 2008, 11:29:41 PM

With this new mill. I am now sawing with a 51HP super hydraulic, previously with a 24HP manual Mizer. I haven't been able to get a feel for how fast is too fast. I think I could possibly saw faster then the old mill would even travel down the track, almost. I don't want to damage the bands. We are running 1.25"x.055", and I have gotten a few uneven boards, but it may be from the cant bowing, not sure. Also what are the indicators of a dull band? On the old mill, I could tell that my feed speed was dropping, but I can't feel that on the new mill. Thanks.

Dave

Tom · April 10, 2008, 11:44:44 PM

Dave,
You will go a lot faster, but still you are dependent on the blade configuration more than the horsepower. You will have to be more cognizant of the bands ability than you were before. The horsepower gives you the oomph to get through the knots and strange grains and wide wood without bogging. It's just my opinion, but start paying attention to how forcefully the dust is emitted and how course it is. fine stuff will fall close to the mill and course stuff will go further (if pointed out, not down) the less heavy stuff you create the duller your blade or you are going too slow. Make the blade work. You will be getting all of its capabilities with a 50 horse engine.

Keep in mind the band is still going pretty much the same speed as it was with the 24 horse engine, and that it is the same band.

My opinion

MartyParsons · April 11, 2008, 07:19:24 AM

Dave,
you should be changing the blade every 2 hours of sawing time on the .055. Even if it is still cutting good! If not the blades will break on the next sharpen cycle. On the .055 the flex life is shortned because of the thickness of the band. Once the blade is resharpned and ground in all areas, (gullet grind is very important as with every other area of the profile) then flex life is restored. Another thing you will need to check on the new mill and others reading this is drive belt tension, if the band changes speed ( belt slip) you will get a dive in the cut. Check the drive belt every 50 hours. (First 5 hours on a new belt.) Make sure you follow the spec listed in the book for correct drive belt tension!
Other speed related to Toms answer is after you saw for some time you will know where the exact speed should be. You will look and many things with your senses, sound of the blade, engine and guide blocks, see the sawdust, and feel the control ( Wireless? )
We have many customers with the 51 and 62 hp mills who use the .055 but you will need to learn when to change them.
Marty

SeeSaw · April 11, 2008, 07:53:15 AM

Dave,

I have the 51 HP motor on my mill also. I use the 1.25 x .055 band sometimes but not always. As Tom Pointed out you have the extra muscle to power through wide cuts, knots etc that you did not have before. This definitely changes things and is a huge change for you I'm sure. It took me awhile to get used to when the blade needed to be changed as well but it's like anything else. The more you saw with it the more comfortable you'll become with it. You'll feel the difference as you feed it when the band starts to dull. You just have to get used to a huge change.

Is this new mill the new hydraulic feed or electric?

Tom Sawyer · April 11, 2008, 07:55:03 AM

In my experience sawing with the Cat 51, in most logs the blade's ability to clear out the sawdust is the limiting factor. I usually can tell when to change the blade by listening to the hissing sound of the blade. When that sound stops, the blade is moving up or down leaving a wavy board and I either need to slow down or change the blade. Also, as the blade gets dull it will heat up more while cutting which lowers the tension, so watching the tension guage is an indicator of when to change the blade. I have found though that generally I have been too tentative with cutting speed and could cut faster than I think!

It takes a pretty big log to make the Cat roar. Usually it is just purring. ;D

Tom

Dave Shepard · April 11, 2008, 01:16:29 PM

Thanks for the replies. I am worried that not having a helper to tail for me is going to become an issue. I have been modifying my technique a lot to try and optimize the time that the blade is in motion. I will take my slab cut and a board or two before stopping to tail. I am hoping to get some kind of roller table set up so I can use the dragback and have time to push the board or flitch off the table while the saw is in the cut. I edge after every log right now because I am stacking the boards on the loader arms. Would it be better to have a couple of horses near the mill that I can stack everything on, and then edge at the end of the morning, and at the end of the day? Would save a lot of walking, we haven't gotten everything positioned just right yet.

Is there a board footage number that I should change the blade at, rather than a time limit? I am probably only sawing about 150 feet an hour right now, maybe a little less. I don't want to ruin the blades by running too long. Thanks.

Dave

Dave Shepard · April 11, 2008, 04:08:18 PM

SeeSaw, it is a new wireless remote mill. My avatar is a picture of the remote. There is more discussion and a bigger picture in this thread: Wireless Wood-Mizer

Dave

saw4you · April 11, 2008, 10:48:17 PM

Dave, I just upgraded to a LT40 Super and that saw is in a different league than my manuel 40 with all the upgrades incuding the hydralic loading arms. I have sawed 2 days with it and the outcome is unreal

Jack

customsawyer · April 12, 2008, 05:40:36 AM

I can honestly say that I had a great teacher in the man that first introduced me to milling. His first lesson still sticks with me "Push that mill it will do alot more than you think." I don't have a set time or bf amount that I change my blade at as there are to many other factors that come into play, type of wood, number of knots in log, how dirty the log is and so on. The main thing that I would tell you is that at a 150 bf per hour you could go all day on one blade in the right logs or you could be changing blades every hour or so.
I have gone and seen other men working there mill and it always shocks me how slow they are cutting. I ask them why and they look at me like I just kicked them in the back side. I don't always have best manners. I will then step up to there mill and cut some with it to get a feel for the sounds of there mill and then start pushing it. They are always standing there with there lower jaw slack and saying that I didn't know that mill could cut like that. There are alot of things you have to get the feel of. Listen to the engine, the blade, even the blade on the blade guide rollers, watch for steam when the lube mizer sprays on the blade, and as Tom said watch the saw dust. Your mill is a machine and it will do some amazing stuff.
Keep us posted on your progress.

Swede · April 12, 2008, 06:30:30 AM

QuoteI am probably only sawing about 150 feet an hour right now, maybe a little less.

That´s what I do with my 18 Hp. sawmill but with more power and feed anyone to help would do a lot.
I have a lock-up on the feeding level, while Amerika-Sågen is sawing I can pull a board off and stack it or roll a log. That saves a lot of time for me.
There´s so much to do around a mill more than sawing and I think sawing alone 150bf./hr. is OK for any sawmill.

Sawing softwood without dirt and nails I use to change the blade every two hours.

Swede. *still hanging around now and then*

bandmiller2 · April 12, 2008, 07:38:53 AM

Dave,It may sound cruel but put a good band on the saw and push it to the limit then you will know,as custom sawyer says you can go faster than you think.Congrats on the mill upgrade.Frank C.

Dave Shepard · April 12, 2008, 11:31:52 AM

bandmiller2, it wasn't just a mill upgrade, it was an employer upgrade as well.

I guess with only two days under my belt on this mill, it's ok to not have it down to a science yet. ;D I think most of my trouble comes from not knowing the limit of the blades. I don't think I've come close to bogging the engine or slipping a belt, and I am going at least twice as fast as the old mill. I am going to try accumulating lumber say 300 feet, then edging, and maybe change the blade every 800 feet or so. I am used to sawing about 1200 feet on a band, and I did at least that on the first one, which was an .045". I know that going too slow is bad all the way around, so I hope to bump things up a little. Like I said before, there are more things to keep an eye on, like the debarker, and they are all happening a lot faster. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks.

Dave

bandmiller2 · April 13, 2008, 07:58:49 AM

Yup Dave you got to walk before you run.Do you folks sharpen and set your own bands??Its OK to start off slow many mill owners are fussy about their mills and don't cotton to cowboys,outhers don't care a long as boards are flying off.The mill I run fridays,the old guy is fussy ,I could run it alot faster but why make something enjoyable drudgery ,when theirs no need.Frank C.

Dave Shepard · April 13, 2008, 09:58:33 AM

We will be using resharp.

Dave

SwampDonkey · April 13, 2008, 03:26:39 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on April 10, 2008, 11:29:41 PM
With this new mill.

Just as hard and fast as you can push her Dave. :D ;D

Dave Shepard · April 13, 2008, 04:54:40 PM

I am getting the feeling that the blade is going to give out before the horsepower on this mill. With the 24HP, I could hear the load on the engine. I think these .055" blades will really withstand some power, however.

Dave

logwalker · April 13, 2008, 06:58:46 PM

Dave, let me ask you how much tension you are running on the .055 blades. I think Woodmizer has recommended 2300 to 2500 on my 1994 LT40HD with .042's. So by extrapolation I think I should be running around 2800 to 3000 with a .050 and even higher with a .055. I don't know how your Super measures tension but it will be interesting to see. I remember somebody saying that they run way more than recommended by WM. Joe

Dave Shepard · April 13, 2008, 07:09:33 PM

When we recieved training, we were told to set it at 3000 initially, and after it runs to keep it up around 2800+. I was a little surprised, but I trust the WM guys. ;)

Dave

ARKANSAWYER · April 14, 2008, 06:53:50 PM

You should be around 200 to 250 bdft an hour sawing solo. Buying a portable edger will really make your day. I would also drop down to 0.045 blades so the flex life would be better. 0.055's break alot faster on LT40 wheels and with out help to make the production around 450bdft an hour blade cost is going to get you. Solo with the LT70E I have hit 400 bdft an hour but then I have a roller deck behind me and a E15 Edger. With the 51 cat you will smoke the belt first. Chris was at my mill with his new LT40Super HD51 and cutting cherry he kept upping the feed rate till he smoked the belt. It was still cutting good lumber till the smoke started. :D

Dave Shepard · April 14, 2008, 08:25:06 PM

We have a new WM CAT edger too, but I can't be everywhere at once. :-\ I had asked that blade choice be discussed before the mill was delivered. It came with an .045 on the mill, with which I sawed about 1200+ feet. It was delivered with 3 boxes of .055s. I don't see where we need the .055 blades, especially with all the flex life business. ???

Do you use the board return solo? I don't have a roller table yet, and our layout is not ideal. After we get this cherry sawn out I think we will be moving stuff around and changing how we handle material flow. Thanks.

Dave