Tree Falling Direction ?

[chester_tree _farmah]

Lol. Yup. How about husky verses stihl? That's always a good one. :-)

[BEEMERS]

Gotta be more direct.."Stihl vs.Husky..Husky wins!!!!" that might blow up the forum!!!...Really guys I don't mean that...I own Four Huskys and 3 Stihls...I love them all for different reasons and use them all for different applications..If One was better...Id only own one type.

[luvmexfood]

Here's a question. The tree company came along and cut some trees on the powerline rightaway on our property. Some were very nice poplar a couple with the butt end right at 36". I noticed on there face cut it would go not even a forth of the way in but the top angle would be somewhere close to 65deg. Course they had already limbed and topped most of them by climbing or from a bucket truck. Just couldn't figure out such a shallow face cut.

[thecfarm]

I have seen some mighty scarey stumps from a tree company.

[Big Rooster]

It is  a fun topic to get everyone stirred up about.  I watched that GOL video just to see what everyone was referring to.  I won't rehash what I think of that technique but I did find it highly entertaining that for a video that is stressing SAFETY....when the tree started to fall he turned his back on it and walked across the back of it.  What the hell?

Also i can't help myself but what in the heck was that guy wearing???  And those gloves!!!!  And that coat!  Was that coat cut proof?  It sure would be hard to rip the sleeves off of that for toilet paper! (you west coast guys know what I mean)

Sorry but can't help but poking a bit of fun with a circus video like that>

[luvmexfood]

They promised when they first came and talked to me to chip all the brush. Well they didn't and now say they don't have to. So much for taking someone for their word.

Funny thing I saw them across the hollow about 3/4 miles from the road up in a pasture clearing for a powerline. No occupied structures for that distance. You could see their truck and about 10 ft. behind it you could see where they had put out some kind of an orange road sign.

[BargeMonkey]

Lol. Yup. How about husky verses stihl? That's always a good one. :-)

We all know the answer to that...   8)  what kinda self respecting logger would wanna own a Stihl saw...

[CCC4]

It is  a fun topic to get everyone stirred up about.  I watched that GOL video just to see what everyone was referring to.  I won't rehash what I think of that technique but I did find it highly entertaining that for a video that is stressing SAFETY....when the tree started to fall he turned his back on it and walked across the back of it.  What the hell?

Also i can't help myself but what in the heck was that guy wearing???  And those gloves!!!!  And that coat!  Was that coat cut proof?  It sure would be hard to rip the sleeves off of that for toilet paper! (you west coast guys know what I mean)

Sorry but can't help but poking a bit of fun with a circus video like that>

LMAO!  ;D Did you find any vids on there of head leaners being wedged over??    :

[CCC4]

I think a good power band spring thread is in need! I prefer the red vs the blue myself...also the Nickel plated muffler bearings really wake a saw up!

[BEEMERS]

The power company/tree companies working for them around here have a special style when it comes to cutting down trees.They end up leaving a nice lil seat with a reclined back. Literally the stumps are the height of a chair seat and in their back cut they come in about 18"higher and cut down on a sharp angle.Also, about 65 degrees.
its perfect if you intended to make a chair and have a little back rest.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Lol. Nicely put beemers.

[John Mc]

The theoretic perfectly symmetrical, perfectly plumb pole is an interesting discussion, however any lean on a tree is likely to dwarf the depth of the notch you cut, as far as center of gravity considerations go.

For example, a 60 ft high tree is going to have its top shifted by about one foot if it has just 1˚ of lean.  On a 12" DBH tree that is otherwise perfectly symmetrical, this would shift the CG entirely outside the trunk. It's difficult to see 1˚ of lean with the naked eye, even in ideal conditions.

[SquareG]

I have an engineering degree also.  Felling trees for a couple of years.  Self taught.  Original question: How far to backcut?  Till the hinge is wide enough and strong enough to hold control of felling direction.  Theres a bunch of other valid points, nose cutting leaning trees and don't fight too much with leaners and such, but thats my simple answer to OP from my experience.  Has absolutely nothing to do with changing center of gravity in my opinion.
Shannon

edit:  Looked back at OP.  Something is wrong with your math, or math doesn't apply.  Cutting in 30% would yeild a hinge width closer to 75-90% than 40%.  Sometimes barely cut in 10% and get real wide hinge.

[CCC4]

I have an engineering degree also.  Felling trees for a couple of years.  Self taught.  Original question: How far to backcut?  Till the hinge is wide enough and strong enough to hold control of felling direction.  Theres a bunch of other valid points, nose cutting leaning trees and don't fight too much with leaners and such, but thats my simple answer to OP from my experience.  Has absolutely nothing to do with changing center of gravity in my opinion.
Shannon

LMAO! You engineers are too smart for logging! ! Seems like you let yer brain get ahead of yer fingers and you answered in phrases and riddles! !

What is "nose cutting" a leaner? What has no effect on changing center of gravity?

[CCC4]

Surely you are talking about facing and not really about leaving a 75% hinge right? A 75% hinge would defy gravity for sure...cos it wouldn't fall in a tornado! ! 

[luvmexfood]

Here's a question. I want to cut a hardmaple. Natural lean will put in right between a rock outcropping and no way for me to get it out. If I try and pull it slightly up hill it will fall on some nice young white oaks I would like to save. My plan is to cable it and pull it about 45 deg from the natural lean. Is the higher in the tree the better for hooking the cable? I will have to take a ladder to even get up and I think the ladder is 16 ft max.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Yes the higher the better but how big is the tree? If you are pulling or pushing a tree you can also keep the hinge thicker to keep better control of it. Better insurance on it going where you want. Of course a thicker hinge being forced over is more likely to pull on the stump. A long pick pole works wonders on small tree too. Especially if you have two people. One person cuts and one pushes. Doesn't really take much to get em to go.

[thecfarm]

Make sure you get the hand signals down pat,before the sawing starts. Alot can go wrong with one going alot faster than the other one is going. And it does not matter which one is going faster either. You get a cable,rope high enough in a tree,you can get ALOT of leverage on it. Go slow and be careful. Any pictures of the tree?

[treeslayer2003]

I have an engineering degree also.  Felling trees for a couple of years.  Self taught.  Original question: How far to backcut?  Till the hinge is wide enough and strong enough to hold control of felling direction.  Theres a bunch of other valid points, nose cutting leaning trees and don't fight too much with leaners and such, but thats my simple answer to OP from my experience.  Has absolutely nothing to do with changing center of gravity in my opinion.
Shannon

LMAO! You engineers are too smart for logging! ! Seems like you let yer brain get ahead of yer fingers and you answered in phrases and riddles! !

What is "nose cutting" a leaner? What has no effect on changing center of gravity?

I think he means boring out the heart from the face.?.

[CCC4]

Probably so slayer.

[CCC4]

Here's a question. I want to cut a hardmaple. Natural lean will put in right between a rock outcropping and no way for me to get it out. If I try and pull it slightly up hill it will fall on some nice young white oaks I would like to save. My plan is to cable it and pull it about 45 deg from the natural lean. Is the higher in the tree the better for hooking the cable? I will have to take a ladder to even get up and I think the ladder is 16 ft max.

You could possibly use the natural lean and slope of the ground to swing downhill away from the rock pile. You possibly could face it just down hill a touch from the rock pile, throw a conventional in the uphill corner then a Humbolt in the downhill corner...possibly feather your back cut to the conventional possibly causing the tree to head to the conventional and the leaving plenty of pull wood in your turn corner, causing the tree to roll out of the conventional and commit to the Humbolt, leading the tree downhill and away from your rock pile. Just a suggestion...

[John Mc]

Surely you are talking about facing and not really about leaving a 75% hinge right? A 75% hinge would defy gravity for sure...cos it wouldn't fall in a tornado! ! 

I believe the 75% refers to the hinge length as a % of the diameter of the tree, not the hinge thickness.  You do need enough length of the hinge to properly steer the tree. A 4" long hinge is not going to steer a 16" DBH tree. Once you have enough length of hinge to steer the tree, there is not much point in cutting the notch deeper.

[Jeff]

Surely you are talking about facing and not really about leaving a 75% hinge right? A 75% hinge would defy gravity for sure...cos it wouldn't fall in a tornado! ! 

I was just going to say what John Mc said. He means the hinge is 75% the width of the tree. That's the way I call it. I say hinge width (meaning length) and hinge thickness so I can understand it myself

Remember the goal here is discussion and understanding. I'm a mill rat, not an engineer, but I'd not think real highly of someone poking at my previous profession in regards to trying to learn or better understand felling trees, which I would like to do myself. I worked in the woods one summer in the early 1980's when the mill was closed for lack of business and from what I've learned accidentally on the Forestry Forum, I really appreciate and understand I'm lucky to be alive to remember that summer.

[CCC4]

Yes probably a little harsh...must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Not that it is an excuse. I may have written my poking in a way that may have been translated a little harsher than what I was going for.

[treeslayer2003]

meh, everybody talks different.........cuts different.......