Building a cabin: buy lumber or buy a mill?

[ChugiakTinkerer]

Hello FF folks,

I've lurked here off and on for a couple years and I now have reason to step out of the shadows.  My wife and I bought some land and started the process of building a cabin in the woods.  I've settled on a post frame design and have started to cost out the timbers and dimensional lumber.  Looking at all sawn lumber, from 8x12 timbers down to 1x6 tongue & groove paneling, I'm in the ballpark of $7,500.  I don't really have either, but if pressed I would say I have more time than money.  So I says to myself, "Self, why don't you just buy a hobby bandsaw mill and cut your own lumber?"

It certainly appears that I could save from $1K upwards of $4K depending on what I bought, but I know there would be plenty of other costs in addition to the time and effort of felling and hauling logs.  I have the advantage of being adjacent to much state land from which I can cut firewood and house logs free of charge.  Some background on the property and my plans are at http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=14235.0

I'm still a working fool and have no illusions of wanting to mill for coin.  I'm just considering a small mill for building a cabin and the inevitable outbuildings that I haven't even allowed for in my cost estimate, such as tool shed, generator shed, sauna, etc.  My milling would be weekends only on our property, and probably all of that will be in the winter.

I'll be looking at white spruce which grows in the area up to about 24" max.  In fact a potential down side would be that I can't find enough big trees to mill up my timbers.  I'm pretty confident that I could get all the 8"x8"x18' timbers I need, but the 8x10 and 8x12 could be hard to come by.  Even if I have to buy the biggest timbers from a local mill, I'd still be ahead costs wise, as long as I don't value my time.   :'(


Did I mention that this is a remote property in Alaska?  We haul everything in by snowmobile in the winter.  Access in the summer is by float plane.  So a mill that lends itself to being towed by a snowmobile is a big plus.  In fact, the Woodland Mills 722 with a couple of track extensions seems like it would be perfect.  Current pricing shows me out the door with some goodies and shipping at just over $3K.  I know there are plenty of other options and possibly some good deals to be had in the used market.  I've been looking online and the pickings in Alaska are slim. 

So what things don't I know about logging and milling that makes this an impractical idea?  Winter logging seems like the way to go, but I have no clue about milling when it's 20F or colder.  My back of the envelope estimate for the cabin is 7800 board feet of sawn lumber (hope I didn't lose a decimal point).  Is it reasonable to expect to mill that over the course of a couple months if milling is limited to maybe 8 hours a week?  Or will milling eat up so much of my time, time that could be better spent building a cabin?

I appreciate any input you experienced folks wish to offer.  One other thing to mention, this is in a remote area where there is no permit authority.  Hence no requirement for graded lumber.  I'll be free to use whatever I mill and it's on me to make sure I'm using the right wood for the job.

You all are great sports to stay with me this far.  Here's a picture from a moonlit ride on Lake Louise, just a few miles from our property.

[Kbeitz]

Another BIG expence would be some kind of tractor...
But when your finished with it all you could resale everything.
Just looks cold up there...

[WDH]

Sounds like a good plan to me.  With the mill, you will be able to build all that stuff. 

[ozarkgem]

Welcome to the forum. I would go for the mill if you can afford it. Think about this you can sell it when your a done and probably not lose that much money on it. Say you got 1000 less than you paid for it that is pretty cheap building materials. Course you have blade and fuel cost to figure in. You are doing what I wanted to do but I had some out of the blue health concerns pop up that I knew nothing about. So that dream is gone. Good luck and keep us posted . That snow looks pretty good since heat index is 107 as we speak.

[Magicman]

I don't feel that I am qualified to give you any advice but I admire your plans.  Welcome to the Forestry Forum, ChugiakTinkerer. 

[thecfarm]

I build with my own lumber. Cut the trees,clean up the mess, and saw the lumber and do the building. Some come and see my progress and wonder why it takes me so long. Some say they could build 2 to my one.  :  I could too if I called the lumber yard and had them drop off what I needed.   : The "talkers" never seem to want to speed the progress up by helping either. It does take more time to do all the above. AND ALOT more work too. AND time.

[Den-Den]

Is this decision based just on cost or does the idea of "milled the lumber and built it myself" have value to you?  You should be $$ ahead if you get a mill and saw the lumber yourself but those dollars may not be a lot per hour of work.  When you add in cost saved for future building projects and/or resale of the mill, it gets better.

[WV Sawmiller]

C T,

   If you have the upfront cash I'd be tempted to buy the hobby mill then sell at the end of the project (If you can stand to part with it by then) largely because of the personal satisfaction of cutting your own lumber for your home. Another option you might investigate is having someone come cut for you. I don't see anybody here on FF who does custom sawing in Alaska but visited the WM site and there were several. Don't know how close they are or prices for your area but might be worth checking. Couldn't hurt. Other sponsors/mill makers may have a network to link you up with their customer like WM does. You can check with them. All I've ever talked to have been real nice to deal with.

   Good luck and keep us informed.

[Chuck White]

 Welcome to the Forestry Forum, ChugiakTinkerer.

[Ianab]

Another BIG expence would be some kind of tractor...

I think he'd be looking for a log arch with skis and use a snow mobile to skid logs? That's practical with the smaller logs he's talking about and good terrain.

So there's nothing impossible about the plan. Need to learn a few new skills of course, but it's one of the simpler mills to learn, and smaller spruce are pretty straight forward to log.

You would have more experience than most of us about working at -20F. I tend to try and stay inside if it's gets down to +20F  :D

I'd think it wouldn't be too bad cutting and hauling the logs in the snow as you are moving and can suit up for the conditions. But milling and
building in those conditions sounds pretty miserable. I'd plan on cutting and hauling the logs while things are frozen, then start the milling and building once things warm up a bit.

I guess it's what's more valuable to you. Time or cash? It's quite a lot of work to do all the logging and milling before you even start the build. But the satisfaction of doing that is something you can't buy, and I can certainly see how having your own mill would be handy later on in such a remote area.

[carykong]

You have the time,right? Get the mill. Good luck!

[DDW_OR]

get the mill, then mill what you need. then mill more for future use, then double it.
house, outhouse, smoke house, food storage to keep bears and ? ? ? out,

and get a 4x4 tractor with a PTO logging winch.

then if you need to get your $$ back you should have no problem since as you stated, "the pickings in Alaska are slim"

i am surprised these old pickup snowmobiles do not have a modern day equivalent
http://gomotors.net/photos/38/5b/ford-model-t-snow-machine-conversion_d19d4.jpg?i

[Brucer]

I followed your link and had a look at your project. Looks like a challenge (location-wise).

If your logs are straight, you can saw an 8x8 from a 12" top; an 8x10 from a 13-1/2" top, and an 8x12 from a 15" top.

For the volume of lumber, a small hobby mill will probably do the job you want if you aren't in a terrible rush. I see you were originally looking at some long timbers. Many of the push-type hobby mills can be extended almost forever, as long as you buy enough track. A lot of members on this forum have built their own extensions.

Sawing in really cold weather has its special challenges. Sawing generates some heat so you may find your sawdust freezes in the cut behind the blade. That can "glue" the wood right back together again. Wide blades will often wander in frozen wood, so you should be sticking to 1-1/4" wide blades (which is usually standard on the small mills). I've also had problems with the blade trying to follow the sapwood when the log was partially frozen.

Keep in mind that you will probably have to sharpen your blades, or have them sharpened. Think about where/how you're going to do this. You might just be able to saw the volume you're talking about with a single box of blades (if the logs are clean). Make sure you don't drag the logs through mud and then try to saw them in the winter :(. Having a second box of blades on hand is good insurance. That will give you enough sawing time to figure out how fast you're going through them.

[ChugiakTinkerer]

get the mill, then mill what you need. then mill more for future use, then double it.
house, outhouse, smoke house, food storage to keep bears and ? ? ? out,

and get a 4x4 tractor with a PTO logging winch.

then if you need to get your $$ back you should have no problem since as you stated, "the pickings in Alaska are slim"

i am surprised these old pickup snowmobiles do not have a modern day equivalent
http://gomotors.net/photos/38/5b/ford-model-t-snow-machine-conversion_d19d4.jpg?i

Who says there's no modern day equivalent?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwpKjEa4LYY

[ChugiakTinkerer]

Wow, thanks for the welcome and encouragement.  I just was chatting with my wife and I think I have her on board.  Didn't even take any alcohol.  8)

I wish I had the energy to reply to everyone tonight but I'm pretty tuckered out.  I appreciate the pointers though about potential resale after I'm done with the cabin, but as mentioned above I may not be able to part with it then!

Thanks again for the welcome and I'm looking forward to discovering the trials and tribulations of milling my own lumber.

[Quebecnewf]

I log in the winter with snowmobile. If you are going that route and are planning to cut 8x8x20  ft logs you had better have good logging conditions. Hard snow, flat ground , good snowmobiles, good chainsaws, small gas winch, good helper, pulp hooks and peveys , winter logging experience etc etc.

It can be done but if your just starting logging your first log should not be a 8x8x20. Start small and work your way up. If I was cutting that size I would first cut all the smaller logs I needed around the same area where these logs are standing. Move those first. This does two things , makes room to fell the big ones and you best down a hard path. Best time to log that size is in the spring after the snow has started to melt . You pick a cold morning with a good crust on the snow and go for it. If your having to walk to the base of a tree that size with you snowshoes on to keep from sinking , better not fall it then.

Check out my gallery there are lots of pics of my winter logging operations. You might find some ideas there that you could apply to your operation.

Keep us posted

Quebecnewf

[qbilder]

The huge plus is that you'll be cutting spruce, which is quite light weight and typically very straight. Dragging logs should be a breeze if you have them trimmed of all the spiky broken branches. A 20'x12" spruce is peanuts compared to dragging any equivalent sized hardwood. You also have 3 months of solid sun and 50*-80* weather. I wouldn't dare offer advice, but I have lived in Alaska and cut trees/dragged logs. Your plans aren't far fetched or impossible at all. Good luck & post pics of progress!

[timcosby]

your stealing my dreams!!! i have been dreaming of doing that for years. my norwood mill was delivered an a 4'x4'x'3 tall pallet. very skidable to the site. once on site put it together and maybe put skis under it to take to the tree rather than trying to drag the monster tree to the mill. i bet once your done you could sell the mill for more than you bought it for. go for you dog you im envious

[redbeard]

Get the mill and your dream will be rewarded 10 x better. All your  info you will need is right here on forestry forum.

[derhntr]

There is something to say about building with your own material. Lot of pride in that. Question is time. By the time you saw the trees down, skid them out. Saw the lumber, stack the wood. Hour wise you could be half done building if you purchased the lumber. I have project requiring 8,500 bft of 4/4 boards, working for the last month 3-5 hours a day (still have real job) and 12-14 hours a day on weekends. Working by myself I have sawed just over 6,000 bft. That's from standing tree to boards, stickering and stacking.  Still have to transport them 12 miles to building site. Hour wise the building would have been done if I had purchased material to do it either in steel or T-11. But I am saving over 20K by doing it myself. I personal would dread sawing 7800 bft on a manual mill. Having a fully hydraulic mill spoils you. Wish you the best in your project and look forward to seeing the progress.
 

[Kingcha]

If you have the time buy the mill and cut your own wood.   That being said, can you earn a lot more doing something else with your time.   That would be a game changer ad for as economics.

About selling the mill when yor done, you won't as you will have the bug.       
Good luck and we!come

Matt

[Brad_S.]

Asking whether you should buy a mill or buy lumber on a sawmilling board is like asking your drinking buddies of you should have another or go home instead. Answer will be pretty predictable.

I will break from the pack.

I began to cut the number for a barn that I wanted to build. I have a hydraulic mill with all the bells and whistles and the amount of time it was taking me was still unacceptable .  Additionally, spruce and pine have a tendency to drip sap so it needs to be kilndried to set the pitch. If you are not satisfied with rough sawn lumber on your walls and ceiling, it will all need to be planed.

In the end, I bought lumberyard lumber and I am glad I did. If I ran short on something, I could just go get more and know that it would match perfectly.

By your own estimate, you will only save a couple of thousand dollars. The amount of labor you will save will be worth that and more. You will get your structure up faster and be farther down the road in the long run.

The difference between me and you however is that I had to buy my logs. That was costing me about $270 per thousand so by the time I added my milling expenses, drying expenses and planning costs, I was equal to or exceeding the cost of lumberyard lumber.

I did use my own lumber for trim, flooring and built-ins but I don't know that that alone would justify the cost of a mill.

[ChugiakTinkerer]

Asking whether you should buy a mill or buy lumber on a sawmilling board is like asking your drinking buddies of you should have another or go home instead. Answer will be pretty predictable.

I will break from the pack.

I began to cut the number for a barn that I wanted to build. I have a hydraulic mill with all the bells and whistles and the amount of time it was taking me was still unacceptable .  Additionally, spruce and pine have a tendency to drip sap so it needs to be kilndried to set the pitch. If you are not satisfied with rough sawn lumber on your walls and ceiling, it will all need to be planed.

In the end, I bought lumberyard lumber and I am glad I did. If I ran short on something, I could just go get more and know that it would match perfectly.

By your own estimate, you will only save a couple of thousand dollars. The amount of labor you will save will be worth that and more. You will get your structure up faster and be farther down the road in the long run.

The difference between me and you however is that I had to buy my logs. That was costing me about $270 per thousand so by the time I added my milling expenses, drying expenses and planning costs, I was equal to or exceeding the cost of lumberyard lumber.

I did use my own lumber for trim, flooring and built-ins but I don't know that that alone would justify the cost of a mill.

Brad_S, thanks for sharing your experience.  I'm an utter newbie to the realm of milling, and my experience with wood is the kiln-dried I get from the yard or the firewood I have cut from from spruce and poplar.  I hadn't even thought about the sap in spruce, and now that you mention it I recall that being a nuisance with the last spruce I cut.  I don't have a kiln, nor access to one.  And I don't particularly like the idea of spruce sap dripping from the walls and ceiling.  I appreciate the voice of experience letting me know the complications and limitations of milling my own lumber.

[clintnelms]

I have the Woodland Mills HM126 and love it. Great company to deal with too. I'd suggest the HM126 if you can swing it. Love some of the new features I've seen on the HM130. Get it if you can, but I'm sure you'll be happy with the 722 though. Good luck!

[never finished]

  If your not dead set on post and beam. You can build a frame structure with smaller logs. Which means less support equipment, easier skidding, lighter lifting. Consider how much help you will have around when lifting beams. Just food for thought. I have always thought, if building in a remote location I would go with cord wood cabin. Dennis