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Author Topic: New and looking for 460 info?  (Read 3853 times)

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Offline chainsaw samurai

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2014, 12:48:58 PM »
Yes! I noticed the elm took its toll on both chains with the few cuts they made they will need to be sharpened before the trip. My buddy has the real nice Oregon sharpener, its a good deal he sharpens our chains and I fix/maintenance the saws.  I will throw a brand new RS on the saw  and have those for back up. 

Offline chainsaw samurai

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2014, 10:43:32 PM »
Earlier when the topic of compression ratio came up on another thread a simple suggestion was made for a temporary trial.
Remove the base gasket (0.3mm thick) and use a liquid gasket instead.This way you lower the cylinder near abouts 0.3mm.
If by quench you mean squish, its easily measured with the trusty soldering lead and a vernier??
   I must know more about this procedure please. I am having a hard time finding stuff on this forum.
   When I was assembling I tried to use play doh and measure the thickness but it was a disaster-thought I used enough WD on the combustion chamber, but I ended up re-washing the cylinder in the dish washer(wife always loves that).
  Will it seal without the gasket and just sealer? I usually do the machine work to the clearance I want w/o the head and base gaskets and let the gasket thicknesses be my "cush".
  I don't even know where to start with chainsaw clearances-I can't find many.
   These tiny cylinders with no removable head make things challenging. Plus it looks like I will have to make some kind of jig/fixture to hold it in the old Bridgeport. I have been searching ytube for some how too but have come up short. I will see if Mastermind has any videos on the subject.   Thanks :)

Offline Andyshine77

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 05:18:29 PM »
This is one method for checking squish.


You can also check squish with the cylinder on the saw. Insert two pieces of solder bent 90 through the sparkplug hole, and line them up 180 from one another, across the wrist pin. Make sure the solder in against the bore, and the piston is up high enough to block of the exhaust and transfer ports, you don't want the solder to catch in them.

.020" of clearance is a good basic safe number to look for.   
Andre.

Offline chainsaw samurai

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2014, 02:42:31 AM »
Hi all, Had a business op out of town for a bit. Thanks for the solder trick I never would have thought of that. I took the gasket out and snugged the cyl. down and got .026" average of three. measured the base gasket and came up w/.030" measured a new aftermarket gasket and it was .017". so I cut off .020, stuck in the aftermarket gasket and I am at .021". I don't think it messed with the timing too much, The saw runs unbelievable. The idle did get a little sloppy when its down were the chain doesn't move(3100).

  We have been buried in snow up here so it is looking like 1st weekend in Mar till I get to see how it really does. Can't wait! My buddy is asking me if they make a dual port for his 660(he doesn't give a crap about the warranty). I am wondering if I could just open up that pencil diameter sized hole in his stock muffler?
     Thanks again for all the help!

Offline Andyshine77

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2014, 11:01:59 PM »

  We have been buried in snow up here so it is looking like 1st weekend in Mar till I get to see how it really does. Can't wait! My buddy is asking me if they make a dual port for his 660(he doesn't give a crap about the warranty). I am wondering if I could just open up that pencil diameter sized hole in his stock muffler?
     Thanks again for all the help!

That will work just fine.
Andre.

Offline JohnG28

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2014, 09:34:52 AM »
If he got a DP cover at a dealer and they put it on the warranty would remain intact.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Offline sharkey

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2014, 12:35:45 AM »
Here are a couple videos that may help you understand the hop up process.  If you are familiar with cutting squish bands on snowmobile engines you will already understand.  At 6000 ft you will need all the compression that you can get.  .020 is the target tolerance between piston and head, measured at TDC (usually at the edge). 




Of further interest is the study of time area.  This concerns how long the ports stay open, how wide they can be made and what shapes make the best power.  Gordon Jennings and Gordon Blair both wrote books on the subject. 

http://www.datafan.com/Horsepower_Blog/gordon-jennings-two-stroke-tuners-handbook/

http://books.sae.org/r-161/
 
MacDizzy is another reference who uses computer aided design software to find hidden power.  http://www.macdizzy.com/19893hopup.htm

Offline chainsaw samurai

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2014, 04:35:52 PM »
  This is great stuff! Thanks everyone. The mandrel set up on the lathe would have been much easier than machining the two plates I used to chuck it up in the Bridgeport table. I am a very novice machinist so everything takes me three times as long as it should. What do you guys think of the aftermarket big bore kits ?
 are they any good? from what I have found there is china, taiwan and Italy. I don't make a living with this saw so longevity is not as important to me as it is to the real sawyers. I always got the old 390 for a backup.
                                      Thanks again for all the help.

Offline Komatsu_Mech1

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2014, 09:25:19 PM »
So I just got done reading through this thread, and I got to say there is a lot of good stuff in here. I also am not a full time tree cutter but a gear head with a 460. I have been trying to figure out just how to build it up. From the looking around I have done I believe a 54mm top end kit from baileys would work as a bigger bore kit, (correct me if I am wrong???) and with some work and the right fuel and exhaust work it could pretty cool. As you said Chainsaw Samurai there is always the 390 to fall back on.

I look forward to learning more!

Offline chainsaw samurai

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2014, 12:25:04 PM »
The 460 is kinda like the Chevelle of the chainsaws. Light for its size, tons of factory power and lots of room for modification. I am thinking of a 54mm bb kit too. After reading the links in Sharkey's post I am ready to start really playing. I have the original OEM cylinder (slightly scored)to practice on. Although I might try to find an old used one or two that is truly junk, one of the things I have learned from this thread is that a little scoring does no t always mean you need a new cylinder(wish I knew that before I shelled out the 200bucks). And from some other threads on here, I have learned that the AM is constantly improving their products. I don't use it like a tree service, when I get back from camping or wood cutting I always detail clean my 390, service it and have it all ready for the next time. I will do the same with this 460 and I think the am kit will work out for me and be cost effective. 100 bucks and a few hrs of fun!! If I needed the saw to make a living with I would definitely send it out to one of the guru's for a "woods porting" job on the OEM cylinder. With their knowledge and skill you would have proven OEM reliability and more performance, but that would cost quite a bit more and not be as fun. And fun is what it is all about for me 8)
     

Offline chainsaw samurai

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2014, 04:41:43 PM »
Hey Andy, What is the deal with a wide nose(13teeth I think) vs the 11 tooth es bar that I have? Does the wider nose cut Faster? (less of a bend less friction maybe?) We were looking at my buddies old 038super and noticed that the tip on the 28"bar was a little fatter than on Our 25's, then I checked out the 20" bar on my 390 and it has a wider tip too. Just curious why they would make the different sizes.
                                                                            Thanks, Lance

Offline Andyshine77

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Re: New and looking for 460 info?
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2014, 02:01:11 AM »
The wide nose is better for plunge cuts and it reduces wear. The smaller nose bar will have less kick back tendency because of the smaller radius. This however reduces plunge cutting efficiency.
Andre.


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