Has anyone here tried the carbide tipped blades from Wood-Mizer or elsewhere? If so, can you share your results? Worth the extra $? Thanks
There are several sawyers who successfully use them but they are not an option for me. I only custom saw and the customer is not concerned with how many blades it takes to saw his logs. I do charge him for the blades in the event of a metal strike and that would be a deal breaker for the customer.
I used one carbide blade to saw 4500 board feet of 1" lumber from untreated dusty dirty cedar power poles. Regular blades were cutting about 300 bf each before giving lumber that was too wavy for me. They're great but it's an $80 mistake to hit metal or otherwise mess up one on the mill. Economics make sense if there is low chance of hitting metal, the wood is abrasive, or the operation is a high dollar one for the customer and he wants to maximize production because of paid labor situation.
I have a carbide tipped blade for my shop bandsaw. A sharp steel blade cuts better.
I use WM's carbide 7 degree turbos(I think). They work very well. I mainly cut logs from a loggers setting which means metal strikes are rare. I have the diamond stone to sharpen them and touch up a few but mainly I just run them till they are dead or starting to wave. When Im cutting a stringy wood such as Sika spruce, the feed rates are slower than a 747 but still pretty good as blade changes aren't nearly as often. I've done guzzintas(math) and the carbides are almost as cheap to run as the doublehard 747 but when I factor in the time saved on blade changes , its probably about even costwise. Buy one and try it.... ;D
I tried some, had good cutting results but between metal strikes or band breaks the #'s didn't make it worthwhile.
I ordered one 5 week ago, still don't have it. They are 6 to 8 weeks out so if you want to try them, get them on order cause it's going to take awhile. I ordered one to try for flattening kiln dried slabs on the mill. I've been using turbo 7s for flattening with good results, I just wanted to try a carbide to see if I get maybe a bit smoother cut.
I'm curious so please report back. I'm cutting hard maple without risk of metal so this sounds appealing.
Interesting to read the posts from bandsaw users. In general carbide tipped saws are more productive. In certain woods it does not work. Eastern red cedar can chip the corners and dead locust may un braze the carbide. On circle sawmill saws the teeth only come in stand-all style and take more power but you may be able to saw for days or weeks and when it is time to sharpen you find broken carbide. Don't hit metal.
Carbide does well in dense woods. It is however brittle and prone to chipping under shock loads, and it doesn't like sand and stones on the outside of logs for this reason.
Stellite does better when it's abrasive, but not super dense as well. It's softer than carbide and less inclined to chip but being softer it doesn't stand up as well to dense species. Hard and abrasive use carbide as in those conditions the edge rolls on the stellite though it's still better than carbon steel.
Carbon steel cuts faster and cleaner but as soon as the density goes past about 60 lb/cubic foot it struggles to hold an edge long.
Lower your band speed to cut steel.:D
And then there is tungsweld , the seldom seen allturnative to carbide saw bits. this is a way to get hard teeth in non stand-all. I can't keep carbide [stand-all] in my edger but have good luck with non stand-all. attn. L.L.
Quote from: moodnacreek on May 07, 2021, 05:15:41 PM
And then there is tungsweld , the seldom seen allturnative to carbide saw bits. this is a way to get hard teeth in non stand-all. I can't keep carbide [stand-all] in my edger but have good luck with non stand-all. attn. L.L.
I fixed the breakdown saw problem with it throwing teeth.
Around the 70-75 lb/ft3 density mark remove the insert tooth blade and weld the teeth on. Then they can't shake out. Problem solved. ;D
(actually it's a sawmill design issue....woods that hard she's inclined to bounce in the cut just a little. The horizontal saw bouncing up and down in the cut was slowly stretching the keepers open until they'd just rattle on out. What it really needs is the boom reinforcing to the point it doesn't bounce but anyway.... welded on teeth solved the symptom if not the problem.)
Quote from: moodnacreek on May 07, 2021, 01:06:15 PM
Interesting to read the posts from bandsaw users. In general carbide tipped saws are more productive. In certain woods it does not work. Eastern red cedar can chip the corners and dead locust may un braze the carbide. On circle sawmill saws the teeth only come in stand-all style and take more power but you may be able to saw for days or weeks and when it is time to sharpen you find broken carbide. Don't hit metal.
<<< needs to sharpen carbide teeth 3 or 4 times most days. Helping keep Simonds afloat for circle saw users everywhere, that's me.
LL ever consider giving up sawing logs and making lumber out of rocks? Might be easier on your equipment. :D
I slabbed some extra big logs for another sawyer a couple of weeks ago that runs a LT35. He runs carbide exclusively and loves em. He only saws wood for his cabinet work, no custom sawing. He is very selective about what he saws and a suspect log gets checked with a metal detector.
They would never work for me because I saw 70% yard trees and junk. Too much metal. Having said that, I did run carbide on a job to re-saw dry and super hard tropical timbers. A regular band would only make a pass or two before it was dull.
Thanks for all the replies fellas. Great feedback. So far, I have only ran the Double Hard 10* blades from WM. With clean logs, I'm getting 4-5 hours of sawing. I'm probably pushing them longer than I should. I'd like to try carbide for the softwood I m normally cutting here.
Quote from: KWood255 on May 07, 2021, 09:55:40 PMI'd like to try carbide for the softwood I m normally cutting here
Where is "here"? It's easier to answer questions when your profile shares such information as your location and sawmill manufacturer/model.
It boils down to spending the money and controlling what you cut if you can. As time goes by I spend more and more time with the metal detector on the butt logs. Also have a wire brush and bark spud within reach.
So how do you change [carbide[ bits that have been welded in? Sounds like L.L. needs diamond tip bits. The heel on carbide and stand-all bits pound the saw more than regular bits. I learned this with my 14" edger saws as the carbide bits kept backing out.
Quote from: Magicman on May 07, 2021, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: KWood255 on May 07, 2021, 09:55:40 PMI'd like to try carbide for the softwood I m normally cutting here
Where is "here"? It's easier to answer questions when your profile shares such information as your location and sawmill manufacturer/model.
Magicman, I am in NW Ontario. I have a WM LT35HD
Quote from: Southside on May 07, 2021, 09:08:19 AM
I tried some, had good cutting results but between metal strikes or band breaks the #'s didn't make it worthwhile.
How long did you run before the blade broke. No metal strike
I've not tried the carbide blades, but have been running 10° bi-metal for about 8 months with good results. New, I get 8-10 hours averaging 300-350 ft/hr. After first sharpening it drops to 6-8 hours, second sharpening 4-6 hours. With double hard T7, I typically get about 2 hours. At $10.25 for sharpening and going through 4-5 blades in a day, I spent about $50 a day in sharpening fees compared to $10.25 with the bi-metal, they basically pay for themselves in 1 day.
With carbide blades, you have to run the log through a debarker first.
If not, the teeth will twist on the blade.
No set on them. They're all in line.
Thanks for the heads up Peter! Do you think that would contribute to blade breakage without the debarker. Timberking has some carbides out and a guy that's ran some has broken a few.
The carbides are probably what I should have run when I cut all of the old walnut logs and dead ones without bark they were like sawing concrete compared to cutting some green walnut that was like cutting butter
We got a carbide to try for a specific need a couple months ago. I've used it 5 or 6 times to re-flatten big slabs after they come out of the kiln. I level them up best I can on the mill bed, just like a router sled, then set the saw to the lowest point and go. Flip the slab to the flat side and do it again. It has met my expectation, does a nice job.
Is the slab smooth enough to go right to sanding?
I come from the steel cutting industry 34 years, the last 10 years evaluating carbide bandsaw blades. They definitely have a place cutting any material, but the equipment must be able to run high rpm's and faster feed rates.
Better finish and if you're after production a hell of a lot more throughput, but high risk if the material is soft or dirty.
MK Morse was testing a triple cut tooth configuration for wood a few years not sure if they ever marketed it, but would be interested to see if it cut.
If my WM was would go fast enough I would run.
Timberking Carbide blades! Rubbed shoulders with the boys at Timberking today. Great guys as always! Guys are really liking the carbide bands. So I'm ready to use them on the old gold. Wow!! Did a double take at the truck stop restroom. Individual stalls with full blown rear end cleaner with massage and wow 😂😂
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How much do those cost from TK, what size. Steve
1 1/4 x .042 x 14'6" x 7/8 130.00 bucks or 115.00 bucks each for box of six
Quote from: Larry on March 23, 2022, 01:37:24 PM
Is the slab smooth enough to go right to sanding?
Yes it is. Went right to our Rotex sander and worked up from there. I went pretty slow with the blade when skim cutting because I wanted it to stay flat. Generally when going that slow a normal blade will leave a lot of chatter, not near as much with the carbide.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 24, 2022, 06:02:17 AM
1 1/4 x .042 x 14'6" x 7/8 130.00 bucks or 115.00 bucks each for box of six
Have you had a chance to use them yet? I've got one from WM and just started using it to flatten slabs on mill. I've got over 100 drying waiting on sales and kiln drying. I need to order more for spares.
Quote from: xlogger on March 26, 2022, 07:14:17 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on March 24, 2022, 06:02:17 AM
1 1/4 x .042 x 14'6" x 7/8 130.00 bucks or 115.00 bucks each for box of six
Have you had a chance to use them yet? I've got one from WM and just started using it to flatten slabs on mill. I've got over 100 drying waiting on sales and kiln drying. I need to order more for spares.
Not yet. It's finally drying out around here after much needed rain. I'll keep you posted. I'm sure others can also but I can cut paper thin sheets with the Timberking Ultra blades they have. Timberking says no need for a debarker to run their carbide blades. They run fine
Quote from: Percy on May 07, 2021, 08:53:48 AM
I use WM's carbide 7 degree turbos(I think). They work very well. I mainly cut logs from a loggers setting which means metal strikes are rare. I have the diamond stone to sharpen them and touch up a few but mainly I just run them till they are dead or starting to wave. When Im cutting a stringy wood such as Sika spruce, the feed rates are slower than a 747 but still pretty good as blade changes aren't nearly as often. I've done guzzintas(math) and the carbides are almost as cheap to run as the doublehard 747 but when I factor in the time saved on blade changes , its probably about even costwise. Buy one and try it.... ;D
I understand Danny and Robert along with others use carbide blades to flatten slabs and I've started using them more lately also. I've got a WM 250 sharpener. Do you just run till dull and get another one or is there a stone worth while to sharpen?
Woodmizer sells a diamond wheel 5" for the BMS250 to sharpen carbide blades. It only grinds the face of the tooth.
WOW!!!! Timberking carbide blades are amazing! Absolutely night and day difference!!! From the flatness and the engine not pulling down in the hard old crotch wood.
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Quote from: Larry on March 23, 2022, 01:37:24 PM
Is the slab smooth enough to go right to sanding?
Absolutely! Butter smooth. I'm very impressed. Here is a close up. You run your hand across that and it's smooth and flat as glass. I was going the same speed as the regular ones. Fairly slow. I probably could have went much faster for sure.
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Here to make some noise and run my mouth 😂! Timberking carbides are amazing!!! The only reason I see for not running them is what the big boys said about metal in the trees. Thinking of what big time Southside said about the sawdust when I took the picture. Nice and coarse! In my opinion there is absolutely no comparison from a regular band to a carbide. From the jet stream of nice and coarse sawdust, cutting absolutely flat through old hard walnut, butter smooth finish to the motor running night and day difference. I'm a believer!!!
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The carbides keep humming away on dead walnut that's been down for years and hard as a rock. But flat as a pancake
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To answer your question I ran them on my 35 which has 19" wheels on it. Got around 2,000 to 3,000 BF out of them before they would break. Maybe they would run longer on my 70 with bigger diameter wheels.
I liked them, but for me they didn't pencil out.
I used one so far, to saw about 4500 sf of cedar from power poles, lt70. So it lasted at least that long. 1-1/2", .045. 195" turbo 7.
Liked it so much got 5 more.
Finally some others making some noise about the carbides. I'm amazed at how flat they cut and how much less fuel I've used. We will see when they start to decline or break. I think if they break they can be welded if it was were the weld was
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Quote from: Walnut Beast on April 17, 2022, 07:31:23 PMI think if they break they can be welded if it was were the weld was
If they break at the weld, that suggests a faulty weld, and the blade could be repaired.
But carbide bands usually go via metal fatigue starting micro cracks in the gullet all the way through the band. One of these eventually grows and the band breaks. If you repair that spot there are 100 more cracks already formed and the next break is probably only minutes away.
When you think about the amount of flexing the band has experienced before the carbides get dull, that might be 5 sharpens on a normal band, and if they start breaking some time after that, well they were basically worn out.
I think WM will resharpen their carbide bands once to extend their life, but after that they are so likely to break it's not worth touching them.
I guess about 25 years ago I had a guy ask if I could re-saw some 24" wide kiln dried tropical hardwood. Nobody with a shop bandsaw had the re-saw capacity. A standard band would only cut into it about an inch.
At that time WM and TK couldn't even spell carbide. Laguna sold a carbide band called the "Resaw King". It was actually manufactured by Uddehom, a Swedish company that has been in business forever making high quality bands. I bought a couple of bands for my old sawmill and re-sawed the tropical hardwood without problem. I liked the bands so much I bought a couple to use on the shop bandsaw for re-sawing. Still have one. Excellent finish and easy cutting.
Since the bands were so expensive, I bought a Lenox tension gauge to insure I was at exactly the right tension. Laguna would re-sharpen until nothing was left of the carbide. If a band breaks its toast, usually you can see a bunch more small cracks in the gullet.
I did order a 1-1/2" WM carbide band about 3 weeks ago to surface kiln dried wide slabs. Hasn't showed up yet. For the logs I saw, I'll stick with standard bands as they are economical and do a good job for me.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on April 17, 2022, 07:31:23 PMI think if they break they can be welded if it was were the weld was
I have welded enough to know that when a weld fails it's a perpetual problem if all you do it re-weld that spot, couple that with the flex requirement of a band and I don't think that will work out well.
My WM carbide band showed up yesterday. The carbide tips are the smallest I've ever seen, almost takes a eye loupe to see them. I would think it would only be possible to get one re-sharp, if that out of them.
Only plan on using it to surface slabs, maybe one shot use will be ok.
Quote from: Larry on May 15, 2022, 01:56:12 PM
My WM carbide band showed up yesterday. The carbide tips are the smallest I've ever seen, almost takes a eye loupe to see them. I would think it would only be possible to get one re-sharp, if that out of them.
Only plan on using it to surface slabs, maybe one shot use will be ok.
I have the diamond stone to resharpen the carbide blade. I went through 20 blades one year. You can resharpen once then they break. It just was not economical o keep running them. I got tired of hitting metal and they cost me $165 Canadian per blade. I now keep them to flatten slabs.
I had 3 boxes of them, a lot of $$$$$$$$ And have the wheel to sharpen them. But they get all twisted up on the tooth after a while. Then if you hit something , Now they wash board the cut.
IMO good for re-sawing a cant in to 1or 2"
I have a pile in a corner some place.
They would cut bad before breaking.
Maybe I push the blade too much.
Quote from: Larry on May 15, 2022, 01:56:12 PM
My WM carbide band showed up yesterday. The carbide tips are the smallest I've ever seen, almost takes a eye loupe to see them. I would think it would only be possible to get one re-sharp, if that out of them.
Only plan on using it to surface slabs, maybe one shot use will be ok.
Pony up and get a Timberking carbide . You won't be disappointed!
Quote from: Southside on April 18, 2022, 12:08:26 AM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on April 17, 2022, 07:31:23 PMI think if they break they can be welded if it was were the weld was
I have welded enough to know that when a weld fails it's a perpetual problem if all you do it re-weld that spot, couple that with the flex requirement of a band and I don't think that will work out well.
From talking to Timberking quite awhile back their guy that sharpens or somebody they knew was welding them back together at the original weld
Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 15, 2022, 07:19:15 PM
Pony up and get a Timberking carbide . You won't be disappointed!
From your picture the TK has probably 5 times the amount of carbide on the tip. They don't sell them in 1-1/2" wide which is all I run now. I got the Woodmizer because its 1-1/2" wide.
Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 15, 2022, 07:19:15 PM
Quote from: Larry on May 15, 2022, 01:56:12 PM
My WM carbide band showed up yesterday. The carbide tips are the smallest I've ever seen, almost takes a eye loupe to see them. I would think it would only be possible to get one re-sharp, if that out of them.
Only plan on using it to surface slabs, maybe one shot use will be ok.
Pony up and get a Timberking carbide . You won't be disappointed!
I never said they didn't cut great, they saw beautiful smooth and flat. It is the long term cost that did not make them worth using daily.
I would think they are all made in the same factory.
Quote from: Larry on May 15, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 15, 2022, 07:19:15 PM
Pony up and get a Timberking carbide . You won't be disappointed!
From your picture the TK has probably 5 times the amount of carbide on the tip. They don't sell them in 1-1/2" wide which is all I run now. I got the Woodmizer because its 1-1/2" wide.
They are indeed impressive looking and performing!! I thought they did have them as guys are running them on the big dog 2520 Timberking 65hp king
This may or may not be of use to any of you but many years ago I used to work in a mill that had a big (6 or 8 inch) band resaw that ran carbide tipped bands. Those big bands you can sharpen/set/hammer them numerous times then send the band out to get it re-tipped with new carbide inserts.
Anyway they went through a phase when the band bodies were failing prematurely. That was linked to operators running the carbide bands too blunt, because they'll still keep cutting okay when blunt. The solution was to put a big easy to read ammeter on the saw to measure current draw, once you needed more then x amps of current draw to maintain a set cutting speed it was changeout time. Premature breakages became a non-issue.
Maybe if you have a way to measure cut speed vs revs you could do the same with an engine driven bandmill.
I'm very familiar with carbide tipped circle saws and know that you'll get best tip life (and better finish on the product) from frequent light sharpening rather than running them to dead blunt and grinding a heap off them.
Run it! Run it!!! Timberking carbide still going strong. Absolutely no comparison to a regular one!
Run it no more! Blew the Timberking carbide! Seemed like I had run out of tension on the band. It was paper thin up against the shroud cover when I opened it up I noticed. Blew it or not. Carbides are going to be the wave of future on the saw bands in the future I bet. I'll take a carbide any day up against a box and half or two of regulars any day!
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Went back to regular blades and what I learned is I will never buy a regular blade again. Carbides just cut so good and last so long!!
Nevermind. How do you delete a comment here anyway???
Quote from: Walnut Beast on May 21, 2022, 12:08:12 AM
Went back to regular blades and what I learned is I will never buy a regular blade again. Carbides just cut so good and last so long!!
I want to hear that comment after going through 6 nails and 6 blades. ;D
I had found that carbides also make up for a mill a little out of adjustment.
The carbide that broke that went through many logs with no nails or any metal 😂 would have cut better in this than the regular brand new blade that cut this. Looks, running your hand across , putting a straight edge of the difference and your motor not bogging down is why the carbide is superior !!
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You are absolutely correct Longtime Lurker. When the operator is separate from saw maintenance, hard to make them understand.
Everything is properly adjusted, leveled and down pressure, tension on blade and the cut quality is fantastic but I will say it again the carbides cut better hands down! Haven't ran any other carbides but Timberking carbides