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General Forestry => Sawmills and Milling => Topic started by: gus1957 on September 10, 2007, 08:38:33 AM

Title: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: gus1957 on September 10, 2007, 08:38:33 AM
 Hello,

I'm looking for some one to set up on the farm to saw white pine logs into beams to repair barn sills that are 40' long.

Or maybe buy a mill and which one for that length?

Thank you
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12'x12'x40' in New York State
Post by: Dan_Shade on September 10, 2007, 10:17:24 AM
how many logs do you have?  if not too many, an alaskan jig could do the trick for you
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12'x12'x40' in New York State
Post by: Mobilesawyer on September 10, 2007, 10:32:00 AM
You might want to consider scarfing a couple of 20 foot pieces together.
This way you stand a better chance of finding a sawmill with a twenty foot capacity.
Even if you go this way you are going to have to provide some kind of ground handling equipment because a 20 foot log that will yeild a 12"x12" beam is going to be heavy.
A swinger sounds like an option but you will have to roll the log over (grunt).
There is on available in the for sale section. ::)

Good Luck
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12'x12'x40' in New York State
Post by: DanG on September 10, 2007, 10:36:02 AM
Welcome Gus!  There are several sawyers on the forum that are in your state, but I don't know if any of them can handle the 40' length.

You've sure come to the right place if you're considering buying a mill.  There is a load of info on selecting the best mill for your purpose.  Ironically, the smaller manual mills adapt more easily to long logs, since adding more track is all you have to do.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12'x12'x40' in New York State
Post by: Dave Shepard on September 10, 2007, 12:28:00 PM
Howdy gus, welcome to the forum. I second the suggestion of scarfing to shorter pieces together. You will still need timbers that are probably 21', as there will be a little overlap. A sill scarf is very simple, it can be as easy as a short half-lap, not like a three foot long stop-splayed scarf with undersquinted butts. ;) :D Do you have any decay resistant species for the sills? If the pine gets any moisture, it won't last long at all. White oak or black locust would be great choices.

Dave
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12'x12'x40' in New York State
Post by: gus1957 on September 10, 2007, 01:33:37 PM

I meant 12"x12"x40' long. They were originally hand hewn local Hemlock built around 1840.

The barn is 25'x40' - 2.5 stories.

Unfortunately the floor cross beams were cut ruining the integrity of the post & beam frame and floor boards removed to drive heavier machinery through the barn.

And then upstairs there was a 1956 hay mow fire. The fire company removed 1/2 of the tin roof to let the heat out and get water in. So rafters and upstairs beams are charred.

So I need to start with sills- get them up on rock, some wall studding, upstairs replacements and then all new siding,doors & windows.

So I will have more sawing to do then just the beams.

We already had this barn moved a mile down the road and away from the snow plows on side of road to a hay field and have been lambing 60 ewes in it for 10 years -- now this needs serious work or it won't last another 150 years. The sills were already decaying when we moved it on to #2 stone perimeter drain ditch.

I wish I had big Hemlock or White Oak - but none here.

We are thinking about restoring as best as possible to a shop and hay storage and make an addition for sheep - keeping manure away from the wood frame.

I plan on dropping the biggest Pines on the farm this fall and check their size and condition to see what we  really have to work with for lumber to finalyze mill size.

I apprecaite all the ideas possible -- thanks.

I've hand hewn an 8"x8"x25'  pine beam and that is a lot of work.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12'x12'x40' in New York State
Post by: stonebroke on September 10, 2007, 01:34:38 PM
Try getting in touch with Hudsons in barneveld. They sell a lot of manual mills and could get you in touch with one of their customers.

Stonebroke
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12'x12'x40' in New York State
Post by: stonebroke on September 10, 2007, 01:40:12 PM
You might also think about putting the upright beams on concrete piers. That would get them out of the sheep manure.

Stonebroke
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: gus1957 on September 10, 2007, 06:02:37 PM
 I called Hud-Son and they don't recommend cutomers - only sell mills.And I got info. on them.

Thanks
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Dan_Shade on September 10, 2007, 07:24:03 PM
call the local dealers, they keep track of that stuff....

the push through mills definately have an advantage for really long stuff.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Brad_S. on September 10, 2007, 07:54:02 PM
Along the lines of what Dan mentioned, I once saw an article on an Alaskan mill setup that cut an 80' bridge beam!
Though not portable, Pioneer Mill Works in Farmington, NY, (about 3.5 hours from you to the west) may be able to handle 40'. They had two Woodmizers attached to each other that could handle 40' but I they recently stepped up to a better quality sawmill ( ;D) and I don't know if they kept the 40' capacity.
http://www.pioneermillworks.com/
I am not a big fan of the company and they are not known for modest pricing, but if you must have a 40' beam, they may be an option.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Dave Shepard on September 10, 2007, 09:24:07 PM
If you are on the east end of NY, I know a good guy to go to in Stephentown. He has a WM with a 24' BX. He has gone portable with it in the past, but I would guess you would have to make it worth his while.


Dave
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Sawmill Dave on September 11, 2007, 08:28:06 AM
Gus,

As Brad S mentioned before about Pioneer Millwork in Farmington, NY they have a Timber Harvester sawmill that would handle 40' length barn beems. They square the beem then send it to a Timber Harvester grade Resaw system 12" X 12" Capacity. They would probably be able to work out a price for you. They also have a high speed Weinig Moulder if you needed them to process the wood after. Have a great day.

Sawmill Dave
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: krusty on September 11, 2007, 09:57:46 AM
Gus....you need to hew that log!
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Engineer on September 11, 2007, 08:06:21 PM
I don't know of anyone in your area that can handle 40' with a portable mill.   Actually, that's going to be somewhat difficult anyway - for a Wood-Mizer, you'd have to have the main mill plus a 24' extension and connect them on site.  Probably will be somewhat expensive.   If you foresee a lot of this type of work, long beams that is, a used LT40 manual mill and a new 24' extension from WM might be a good bet.  I don't think a bunch of extensions for an LT15 will be economical.   Cheapest route would be an Alaskan mill, but I don't know how hard it would be to saw 40-footers with a chainsaw mill.

If you'd want to buy the beams, I think Mead Lumber in Queensbury, NY can do something that big.  Not sure though.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Dave Shepard on September 11, 2007, 09:02:24 PM
I was a participant in sawing a few 32 footer with an alaskan, it's something I'd like to avoid in the future. ;)


Dave
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Dan_Shade on September 11, 2007, 09:17:33 PM
The alaskan definately wouldn't be fun, but it's an affordable and viable method to get the job done. 

A lot of it depends on how many beams are needed.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Haytrader on September 11, 2007, 09:49:52 PM
Ironically, the smaller manual mills adapt more easily to long logs, since adding more track is all you have to do. Quote from DanG.

It really doesn't matter what color of mill, as long as you accomplish your goal, to saw the desired length and width, which is what you asked advice for. There are several black, blue, red, alluminum and others that can be extended easily to do what you want to do.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: DanG on September 12, 2007, 12:09:51 AM
Gus, after all you've said about your project, I'm thinkin' you oughta be thinkin' more about buying a small, manual bandmill.  I would be looking at something in the class of the Woodmizer LT15, Timberking 1220, Norwood Lumbermate, or whatever Baker's current small model is.  I wouldn't go for the smallest, such as the LT10 or Baker Woodbuddy, as your logs will likely be too big for them.  I just think you would be much more satisfied with having the ability to cut your own lumber for a project like you are facing.  With the investment being well under 10 grand, the mill will more than pay for itself on the project, and it will be worth most of what you have in it when you're through, IF you can bear to part with it. ;D
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Dave Shepard on September 12, 2007, 11:13:56 AM
A log that will yield a 12"x12"x40' is going to have to be at least 16" small end, how big is it going to be at the butt? Unless you have some really straight trees with minimal taper, that is going to be one heck of a log to try and make a beam out of. Not trying to scare you away from the project, but it is going to be an undertaking without proper equipment.


Dave
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: beenthere on September 12, 2007, 12:23:25 PM
For a sill, seems scarfing a couple two or even three 12x12's would be the thing to do, and then maybe could go to a better species, such as white oak.
I'm with Dave on the size of the butt of a 40' log that will yield the 12x12 timber.
And I think you should be scared  ;D ;D ;D
But hopefully it is taken as just additional ideas to consider.  :)
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: DanG on September 12, 2007, 12:37:32 PM
Creating those beams will be a challenge for sure, but it will be a fun and rewarding challenge.  Doing something like that requires some extraordinary logs and extraordinary effort.  That's why you can't trot down to Lowe's and pick up a 12x12x40 for 50 cents a board foot.

Fast forward about 50-odd years and imagine some old guy telling his grandson, "See that old barn over there?  I once met the fellow that moved that barn, back when I was a kid.  He made the biggest beams I ever seen with this little tiny sawmill.  Folks can't do things like that anymore."

;)

I've got trees right here in my yard that would make those beams and could be handled on a LT15.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Ianab on September 12, 2007, 03:37:31 PM
This is one way of doing it.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=8172.msg110736#msg110736 (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=8172.msg110736#msg110736)

The 12x12 does complicate life with a swingblade beacause you will need to roll and re-level the log 1/2 way through sawing it. But given enough trach extensions it can be done. ;)

Cheers

Ian
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Brad_S. on September 12, 2007, 06:44:54 PM
Quote from: DanG on September 12, 2007, 12:37:32 PM
Fast forward about 50-odd years and imagine some old guy telling his grandson, "See that old barn over there?  I once met the fellow that moved that barn, back when I was a kid.  He made the biggest beams I ever seen with this little tiny sawmill.  Folks can't do things like that anymore."
Hopefully the story teller would also add: "It was a tiny machine that used one of those old time internal combustion engines that burned fossil fuel." :D

I don't think we're giving Gus1957 (btw, a very good year) enough credit. He states he has hand hewn a 25' beam so he must have some concept of how a log squares down, and he is ready to fell some large trees on his land for this project, so he must have some comfort level in the woods.
I'm with small manual mill, extra long track school of thought.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Dave Shepard on September 12, 2007, 09:42:40 PM
I am not second guessing Gus1957's ability, just brainstorming. If you put an idea out on the table, then nobody can say "Hey, you never told me about that!" ;) I would say that a manual mill with a bunch of track sections would be more versatile than a chainsaw mill. It will be quicker for both beams and scantlings. Remember, Gus1957, you should do what feels right to you, we can find plenty of ways to skin a cat for you. ;) ;D Buying your own mill is probably going to be more initial investment, but you will have the ability to saw out whatever you need, whenever you need it.


Dave
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: gus1957 on September 14, 2007, 10:37:27 AM
 I appreciate all the options. We have a 68 hp Kubota &  an 80 hp J.D. both 4wd for moving logs around.
My chain saw is a 30 year old Stihl 041 still going strong with a carb. rebuild and all new gaskets 3 years ago.
In Forest Products I see an ad for a local mill maker T.A. SCHMID.

He says he can do a 40' mill for $8500. with a 13hp Honda engine. I need to go and take a look.

WM quoted $10,400 for a LT15 with extensions for 40' capacity.

Has any one used a SCHMID?

  Thanks
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Celeriac on October 18, 2007, 10:03:07 PM
It sounds like an interesting barn restoration you have underway.  It seems to me that it would be possible to cut a 40' beam on a fairly normal mill.  A camp I'm involved with just finished cutting timbers for a new barn and some of them were 10"x10" by about 30'.  They were cut on a 22' mill.  It's certainly more tedious and time consuming than cutting them in one shot but would beat cutting them out by hand. 

My only sawing experience is with a Mobile Dimension so I can't comment much on the pros and cons of other mills.  In my pre MD days I did look at a Norwood.  They seem like a nice little mill and could be extended from here to the west coast with enough angle iron and such.

Do you have a picture of the project?
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: fencerowphil (Phil L.) on October 19, 2007, 08:04:56 AM
If you are only going to cut one or two sills, the chainsaw mill is very simple to
set up, if you have someone who already understands *Will Malloff's tricks.  A
few years ago, I made a sliding plank like he used to do long runs.  The set up
used lag bolts to support the sliding plank.  The plank is a 2x10 or 2x12 anywhere
from 8' to 12' long.  By pulling a tight string the lags can be set in two rows on
top of the log, spaced for the sliding plank, which provides the flat plane for the
first cut.  As you cut, you insert kerf wedges which taper from 3/16" quickly to the kerf
of your particular chain and are about 18" by 2".  As you make your cut
you insert a wedge about every 4' or so.  They keep the tremendous weight
of such a big log from settling down onto the chainsaw bar and chain.  Do this
in every kerf you make.  (P.S.: The sliding plank needs angle iron or something
else along each edge to keep it from sliding sideways off the lag bolt heads.)


After the first cut, remove all the lags. Next, the moooco macho firewood slab
would be snipped into a few sections and slid off, and  moved out of the way. 
Drop the mill down to the 12"  thickness.  Make a second cut.   (Re-use your kerf wedges.)

Third step, roll the log 90 degrees and repeat these first two processes. Yes, you
do have to do the lag rows again. 

Simply put, if you already have the need (or the sawdust fever) to own your
own mill and will use it around your place to produce more lumber, go for it.
If you only need a sill, get someone with a chainsaw mill to help you knock it out.

Phil L.                                     (Personally, I think you is already infektid!) :D

                    * Chainsaw Lumber Making by Will Malloff, Taunton Press
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: Piston on July 13, 2008, 10:21:05 PM
Gus1957,
Just wondering what route you chose to take with this, I know this is an old topic but curious of the outcome?  Sure would be interesting to see how you made out.
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: cilley on July 14, 2008, 01:16:13 AM
Gus 1957........if you have looked at the hudson mills i would recommend the oscar236.......possible with an engine upgrade.....i have a 36 farm boss.......and i cant say enough about it......i was going to go with a ground track system so i looked around for over 2 years......went to ever show there was.......saw every brand out there........for the money and what this mill can do........i think its a winner hands down.......just my 2 cents worth......and yes you came to the right place here on the forum......cant say enough about the people here........good luck with your project........alan
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: fstedy on July 14, 2008, 04:32:27 AM
I believe Red a member here has the capability you need he has an LT15 with the extensions. He is located in Northern NJ in Morris County. Send him an email and I'll also try to contact him. Where about in NY are you located?
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: kelLOGg on July 14, 2008, 05:14:47 AM
Gus,

I used a Schmid mill once when I was looking at manual mills and trying to decide which to buy. It was the 1st manual mill I has seen and it assured me that a manual would be OK with me. It has removeable wheels for towing and sits right on the ground. You can add track to the limit of the availibilty steel and your ability to level such a long distance - which are not big drawbacks. It is a no frills well and made mill and as the guy who let me test it said " it's the best bang for the buck". Actually met T.A. at the NC Ag Expo in the mid '90s - a nice guy.

Bob
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: shinnlinger on July 16, 2008, 08:31:46 PM
Hi,

I am sure this info is way to late, but Let me put a pitch in here for a Turner Mill.  They are made in NY and could easily be made to do this.  My mill has a 20 ft deck and a 10 ft extension and can do a 26 and a half foot beam (I made a few once)  The extensions are welded bits of angle iron and very soild.  If you have a decent shop you could easily make your own but I bet Mr Turner would whip you up a 25 ft extension, He seems like a great guy.

That said if it was just a few sills I would either scarf, hew or alaska it.

In a recent thread her someone  suggested soaking wood for ground contact in copper napthate and then drilling holes in it and topping the holes with copper napthate every few years.  I might set it on 2x PT also.

Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: millit on July 17, 2008, 04:01:21 PM
Gus
        I could saw 2 20 footers  may be able to find that in hemlock close to home
Title: Re: portable mill capable of sawing 12"x12"x40' in New York State
Post by: millit on July 18, 2008, 05:54:17 AM
I can saw 2 20 footers and good chance i can find hemlock