Pressure Treated wood

[J_T]

Corley how them neighbors like to hear that circle saw? Hope mine like mine when I get it running! So far my nosey neighbors have sent EPA Health Dept.more than once to my private junk yard. Now DOT it is time to sell and start my mill.

[Corley5]

I don't have a spot that is flat enough to set up the mill for Land Pimp's hearing pleasure ;D.  But if I did I sure would and I'd pick up an 8V71 Detroit for power, and let it breath through straight pipes pointed his way 8).  Hogs on the other hand don't take up space and by Michigan's Right to Farm Act it is my constitutional right to practice whatever form of agriculture I so desire.  According to the Act I can run 750 hogs without any special permits ;D and there's nothing anyone can do about it.  The neighbor and me got off on the wrong foot right away.  The ten acres next to me I had tried to buy in the past and he snuck in and bought it.  He's a real estate agent and he has also tried to by every other piece in the section.  Not by asking but by telling the owners what their land is worth and what he is going to pay and that they are going to sell to him.  He hasn't had much luck with his approach.  His father who owns the real estate co. did manage to buy a 50 that borders on our land so now we share a 3/8 mile fence line.  They also tried to buy my Grandmother's land that borders me on two sides but when she told them who her Grandson was and that someday the land would be mine they got back in their truck and left without so much as a thank you.  He's a wanna be developer who also isn't too bright.  O.K. rant off but that's the basic story.    

[swampwhiteoak]

Unfortunately I now live in town around a bunch of folks I don't care to converse with too much.  I find that packing my SKS or HK-91 back and forth to my truck with the clip inserted (usually not loaded) keeps them from complaining about anything.  Whether or not they know anything about guns it sure does look "scary". ;D

[woodmills1]

we have a 7:30 am majic noice ordinance hour.  I try to start something at 7:31 so my neighbor can enjoy it.  For easter I started the bull dozer and parked it at the set back line.  he didn't like me  before i moved here. :D

[Frank_Pender]

Woodmills 1,  I start the D 5 just for the fun too, for some neighbors.  ;) Ain't it fun? 8) 8) 8)

[Corley5]

It is fun to annoy the S.O.Bs ;D but it would be more fun if they'd all just go away

[splinters]

It sounds like it's the same most everywhere. When I moved here 30 yrs ago there was one neighbor I could see and two I could hear. Now I'm over run. Wouldn't mind so much but they are most all city people who move to the country then want it to be like the city. 'Course the dogs have to run loose -its not fair to confine them. The 4-wheelers and snow sleds run all over everything 'cause its all public land isn't it? And everyone likes the music that they like. The rest are the trash that has been run out of somewhere else and moves in the neighborhood with a condemed trailer, junk cars, garbage, kids, and anything else and in a month turn an acre of woods into a landfill.   By the way, them loose runnin' dogs seem to disappear a lot.

[L. Wakefield]

   I've been sitting back and pondering my reactions to this thread, because I was very surprised at what I was hearing. I had thought I had a good sense of the individuals on this board, and they seemed like neighborly types. But what I'm hearing is the type of thing that would not make me a bit happy to have in a neighbor.

   For what it's worth(and I am sure it will make me very unpopular), I believe that you have to lead by example. if you don't like what your neighbors are doing, you are making a poor showing by doing anything that you wouldn't like have done to you. Would you like YOUR neighbor to run around in the dark screaming and discharging firearms, especially if it was with the specific intent of disquieting and disturbing you? I am accustomed to considering that 'disturbing the peace'.

   Would you like YOUR neighbor to take the biggest piece of equipment they had and deliberately fire it up at the earliest time they could legally, for the specific purpose of disquieting you and- 'disturbing the peace'?

   In my neighborhood, the only people openly carrying firearms are those with business to do with firearms- that is, the cops. I have no idea who is carrying a concealed firearm.

   At least in West Virginia, if one neighbor killed another neighbor's dog, he'd find himself in court. There are more open and above-board ways of dealing with this type of problem.

   I have lived in the country all my life- and my dogs have always run free. This is not a 'city person' attitude. It IS a desire that has to be tempered by the consequences of the action.

   The solution to irritations and conflict is not revenge. That is the type of hateful behavior that, if magnified, leads to all the ethnic conflicts we are seeing all over the world.

   As our national agenda has turned toward the combatting of terrorism, I have often thought that the only way to truly judge whether someone is a terrorist or not (other than detecting a 'smoking gun' in their hand)- is to see into their heart. Only God- and the individual him or herself- can do that. It's called judgment day by some. God knows I can't do it.

   But if you are standing over your neighbor's dog with a smoking gun in your hand and the pup is lying there dead- or if you ran the dog over, or poisoned it, or trapped it- rather than using legal means of confrontation or talking to the neighbor about the problem- what choice have you made? Is it 'fun'? Are you happy? Have you made peace? What is in your heart? What is the next step in the interaction likely to be?

   Sometimes there is no power to make peace. But I run on rescue calls to many homes the like of which you are openly condemning and boasting of practicing methods to irritate, annoy, intimidate, and destroy. They are frequently poor as churchmice and very aware of being on the underside. Some of their housekeeping standards are lamentable (but so are mine..)

   You do not help them OR YOURSELVES when you practice as you all have been boasting. I realize that if you are dealing with shifty human predators who are frankly nasty and not interested in making peace themselves, but rather trying to defraud you- you have a problem. But I would propose
that being above-board in your dealings with this problem- as much as you do in your business world- is going to leave you with your feet planted on firmer ground if you do have to proceed to legal action- and more peace in your heart. The judge will view your case much differently if you come in with methodical documentation of your neighbor's infringements and your peaceable responses and efforts to resolve the difficulty- as opposed to your neighbor lodging a countersuit for destruction of property and disturbing the peace.

   I'll get down off my soapbox now... :-[    lw
  

[Tom]

Louise,
You can stand on your soapbox anytime and as long as you like, I do.  It's not a bad thing to disagree with the things people do nor to try "get along" with your neighbor.  I'll have to say that one must look at the whole picture to understand another's ire.  

There is an old saying "when in Rome do as the Romans", which I interpret as meaning don't change the society you move into because it's not like the one that you moved from and because you aren't used to it.

I have been a good neighbor.  I have visited and helped new people get their feet on the ground in an area where it takes heavy equipment and late hours.  I have done favors by pushing my schedule aside while the people I did the favors for continued with their "work schedule.  I have cleared house sites, dug stumps, built roads, dug ditches, sawed lumber for cost or free and have found that the new neighbors figure that's why I am here.  I only see someone when they want something.  That makes me angry.  It makes me doubly angry when I ask for help and am told that "perhaps they could offer me a couple of hours next Tuesday afternoon'.  A lot of good that does when I need it now.

That's the mentality of the "new" folks moving out of the town that they overbuilt, ruined and are leaving.  Now they will do the same here.

We were never bothered with trespass, vandalism, threats of law suit, racing automobiles, automatic weapons fire, drug traffic and trash up and down the road until this influx of the new society.

I have equipment pilfered, batteries and fuel stolen, tools taken, hunting trespass, waterfront vandalism, mail boxes smashed and dodge young girls in little foreign cars who have a death wish.  They pass on double yellow lines, speed and seem to think that drafting under the back of my truck is a cool thing to do.

To house the transient trash, a trailer court was set up and now we have a constant influx of police who are settling arguments, trying to get drunks back into their trailers or shutting down Boom Boxes that reverberate through the woods all night long.

You can no longer burn a stump, cut a tree or dig a hole within eyesight of the hard road or one of these new control freaks will call the police and the fire department.  They fight over two inches of land that a fence may be on and have brought that unfriendly, sour attitude with them from the Yuppie neighborhood they left.

Yes I shoot a shotgun and yell to make them aware of my existence.  They shoot their automatic weapons into the woods and don't give it a second thought that people live back here.  They poach by night with lights and have no qualms about shooting down your driveway.

I put a twenty-six year old thief in the state prison several years ago who was burglarizing my barn.  Held him and his sixteen year old nephew at gun point for forty-five minutes while we awaited policeman.

These woods are filling up with inconsiderate, non-neighborly individuals who think that the first thing one must do when they buy five acres is get five or ten dogs, five horses and start breeding cats.  The only animals they control are the horses and they are fenced in a pasture with no grass.

I had the State Forestry Service do a control burn on the front of my place in anticipation of planting and my "neighbor" threatened to sue me and the Forestry Service for endangering peoples lives with an open fire.  This guy should have stayed in town.

Now I need burning done and can't hire a State qualified burner because they are afraid of litigation.

I don't want these new people on my place nor anywhere around me.  If their thinking, that I'm a crazy old coot back here in the woods, will keep them off of my place, then I will perpetuate the tale. My "Real" neighbors know me for what I am.

[Steve]

 I couldn't agree more with L.W. This thread has really surprised me as well.

We ALL need to live by the golden rule.

[L. Wakefield]

   Tom, I KNOW you are a good neighbor- I can tell that from several thousand miles away- :D -and it sounds like you do have a lot of problems.

   OTOH- I know here it's nothing new to have mailboxes smashed- that's a multi-generational thing here (no, I never did it- too skeered of the consequences..)- and racing autos have also been a tradition since there WERE autos (the drag strip on the Clark's Mills Rd is a multi-generation thing as well.

   The 2 things that you are burdened with that seem like the most intolerable and threatening are the drug trafficking and automatic weapons fire. And I hadn't reailized that said neighbors were already discharging firearms at will and at night down your driveway. Those types need to be brought to justice. I sympathize and indeed fear for your safety. But Hatfields and McCoys action (also an ingrained southern tradition) just isn't going to help. Godamighty, that's exactly what is tearing the world apart today.

   We need to change. If we don't, we will destroy ourselves.  :-/  lw

[Bibbyman]

I guess I'm a bit conflicted about the whole issue.  I rank private property ownership rights equal along with all the other sadly eroding freedoms.  The right to own land was a driving incentive for our ancestors to leave Europe in the first place.  On one hand, all the new population of what was farm country disturbs me deeply.  On the other hand,  I'm strongly against many of the regulations we now have and those I see coming in the future.

I think we are going to be in big trouble when there are more voters without property than there are with property.  It would be real easy to escalate the dissolving of private property ownership - at least as we know it by regulating its use until you're only paying the property tax and insurance and have no real say over it's use.

When my dad's family moved to this county back in the late 1930s, most of the farms were from say 120 acres to a couple of thousand acres each.  In the ten miles to town there were no more than ten farmhouses passed along the way and maybe twice that many somewhere off the road out of sight.  Now there are thousands of homes.  As each farm changes hands, it is broken up in to lots of 5-10 acres.  Then the lots are broken up.  Some of the explosion was self inflicted by farmers breaking up the their farm for their children who have in turn broke their parcel up for their children to have a place for a home.

There are still some area farmers that want to sell their property to someone that will not break it up.  But the prices for the land are so high you could not possibly return its value on the land itself - i.e. farm or timber, etc.  All will eventually be broken in to smaller lots.

Mary and I have talked about selling out and moving someplace where there is more room and fewer people.  But this is my family farm and we can't find another place that doesn't already have the problems described in these posts.  So we'll try to tolerate our new neighbors the best we can.  

[DanG]

LW, I think you misunderstood the gist of what we were saying. I, like Tom, am kind and friendly to my neighbors. The problems I am trying to avoid are from "people" who roam the countryside, looking for easy places to aquire items, "at the right price."  There is a new kick in our area, now. They seem to think it is harder to track them if they burn a house or car, after they have burglarized it.  All of these hoodlums are armed, and would not hesitate to kill, if someone surprised them in the act. My practices merely let it be known that someone who is armed may be watching at any time.
As far as the dogs are concerned, ALL 9 of mine are(were) strays that either wandered onto my place, or were dropped off as unwanted puppies. They get cared for as well as we can without putting ourselves in the poor house, and good homes are found for many. The others stay here as long as they live, which may be a long time if they don't kill my chickens.  Dogs who kill livestock are not tolerated for a moment, by me or my neighbors. I told all of them that if they see one of my dogs attacking livestock, they can either shoot it, or tell me, and I will.
Perhaps you have been fortunate enough to live in places that don't have these problems, but if you'd like a little adventure in your life, come on down and I'll introduce you to some "colorful" characters that'll just make your day.

[Jeff]

I too have been watching this thread and keeping my mouth shut. In fact, at the Timbermens convention I steered clear of the forum because of this thread and the one that had snow blowing out the guys rear.  I knew enough to not take them out of context but I was afraid that a new visitor might, and get a very wrong impression.  I almost posted here yesterday, I wrote the words "You guys are scaring me", but then deleted it. The more I re-read these posts the more I know that we are all a lot a like, but not by just reading these, but by knowing all the other things that have been written by each of you on the forum.

I will not comment on individual things said in this thread, because its insignificant to the whole. What I will do is make a few statements of my own.

I can shoot a dog that is chasing down a whitetail deer and never have a twinge of guilt. I can also hold a sick puppy and not keep my eyes clear.

I will help a new neighbor all weekend on a deck with no thought of repayment, but never contact a friend of 20 years again because he talked down to my son.

I have not been to a church service in 10 years but when I found out a dear friends cancer had returned I closed my eyes and prayed out loud.

If something or someone touches me I try to hide the fact that I am wiping my eyes.

I will tell the 19 year old daredevil on the motorcycle endangering the neighbor kids that if he does not slow down, I won't call the cops I'll just kick his ass myself and he knows I mean it, but then use my talent for painting to help him camoflage his deer blind the next day.


We are all complex animals. We are a little more then only the strong will survive. Those of us that are complete will also use righteousness, compassion and understanding.

[Ron Wenrich]

I feel really fortunate.  I have a 12 acre parcel in the middle of a light industrial zone.  I'm 1 mile from town, but I can't see it.  I am 1/4 mile off of a 4 lane highway.  And when they take the census, I am the only home in this district.

My neighbors are the city water authority, who bought a farm and let it grow up.  Another neighbor is a packaging plant, which is now bankrupt.  The only active neighbor is a plant that puts beds on trucks.  They only deliver trucks a few times a day, so there isn't a whole lot of traffic.

The downside is there is a little more litter and everything is fenced in, but it could of been houses.  But, my livestock and pets and kids can roam wherever they want, within reason, and nobody minds.

My motto has always been if you don't bother me, I won't bother you.  If you need something, just ask.  It seems to work pretty well in my area.  

I did have a few problems with dirt bikes.  A guy figured he could just drive through my yard.  On his return trip, I tore out of my garage in 4 wheel drive.  I had the guy pinned against a fence.  I'm not sure if he ever got the brown stain out of his underwear.   :D  He never came back.

I've been shot at a couple of times.  When you hear the bullet buzz, you know it's close.  These weren't on purpose, but ignorant gun owners.

I've been robbed a couple of times.  I figure it's a small price to pay not to have any neighbors.  Now that the fences are up, that's stopped too.

In some of the small towns in our area, there have been problems with guns and drugs.  The local police couldn't do much about it.  So, some of the people have called in someone to clean up the town.

The favorites have been motorcycle gangs.  They seal the town off, then go about taking the guns and drugs off the kids.  No one lifts a finger to object and no one calls the cops.  They also tell them that if it happens again, they'll be back.  Works like a charm.   ;D

[Kevin]

      
    
      Can I say something ?

[Jeff]

Feel free, just yell across the border ;)

[Kevin]

Lets put the blame on the crazy old white headed guy back in the swamp and make an example out of him.   :D

[Jeff]

You mean this guy?



(Sorry Tom, I snapped this one one the night you were running around in the dark chasing your neighbors cat with a badmitten racket and a salt shaker)

[Kevin]

Man is he toasted!

[Corley5]

Tom,  I couldn't agree with you more.  I've done much for my REAL neighbors and they've done the same for me.  I've plowed gardens, cleared drives of snow, cut firewood, helped with buildings, baled hay etc.  What really started the feud with my new neighbor was the fact that I wouldn't let him tap into my power line for nothing.  I paid $2,700.00 to have power ran up here and when I told him he could have power for $1,350.00 he got mad and stormed away.  Oh well.  Cost him way more than that to have his own put in.  He started the indiscriminate shooting with his semi auto pistol.  Target practice is one thing but just unloading as fast as possible over and over doesn't make sense and it DOES annoy me.  His shooting has stopped since I took to shooting my 12 ga late at night.  The fact that as a real estate agent he planned to turn the whole neighborhood from rural farmland into a subdivision doesn't sit well with any one of my REAL neighbors.  He is threatening our way of life.  Some of this is my own fault.  I should have pursued more vigorously the purchase of the ten that he bought and I shouldn't have built my house as close to property line as I did.  I had two hundred acres on which to chose a building site and I screwed up.  I've always wished I'd put a basement under the place and may very well move it further "inland" and set it on a basement.  I can get away.  He's got no where to run to get away from the hog barn

[Frank_Pender]

It sure  paid to be the meanest teacher in this county, for me over the last 30 plus years.  I love young poeple and supported they and their parents to the point of almost getting myself removed from the profession more than once in that time.   For me it was what was the right thing to do and correct for the betterment of our community.  I guess that is why I still have no problems on my place.  When I say it I mean it.  Both the parents and students have learned that about me.  My oldest students are now 45 years old and the youngest 15.  Thirty years and 3000 kids.  A reputation is a tough issue to deal with and sometimes separate yourself from.    Even the Sheriffs offices calls to get permission to come on my place.  That is respect.  I in turn do and have returned such to them.  Some have been my students as well as parents.  We both have learned where the line is located.  I have had only one theft on this place in 22 years and all three have served their time in the pen for taking without permisson.  One, even saw me in a grocery store a few years ago and ran out the backdoor, thinking I had come after him.  He knew he had ripped me off and was afraid to face reality, even after he had served his time.  For each action there is a response and consequence.  On this farm that is the way it is at this time and until they plant me alongside my Firs.   ;)

[Tom]

Well, I guess nonconfrontational confrontations are best.  When you can't come face to face with the problem, facing the symptom has some self gratification.

It takes more than just living next to someone to make you a neighbor.  I'll have to admit that I am a little disillusioned and disappointed in the relationships that have developed (or not) around here,  but it's still my little piece of ground.

That picture of the wild, crazy, white haired, pinochio looking guy up above is sure scarey.  I think I'd stay as far away from him as I could, if I were you. Don't let him convince you he's the doorbell inspector.

[splinters]

Along with the idea that if we are just a little more kinder and understanding everything will be better. Most of us back in the woods tried that once. Thats why we are back in the woods. My Yuppie neighbor built on three acres. Then fenced the whole thing. Didn't want us hicks on HIS property you see. Everything else is public or no one owns it. He wants me to stop cutting and burning wood. His kids may get hurt playing in my woods and the smoke smells up his air.  Almost every state has game related leash laws. Most of us on this forum understand that and control our animals. If you ask a new arrival about their dog you find out that it would never join a pack or chase anything. Even though it's outside all day when the owners are at work.  
This whole thread is indicative of the state of what America [all of it] has become. The people with no clue about life or living among others, who think that if they want it they should have it. Against us trying to maintain our values and lifestyle. We respect property lines and privacy. If we start early or work late its because we have to.  And in the middle are the well intentioned who say any conflict is our fault.  Remember that we've been here. Nobody bought a lot in a subdivision to start up a sawmill or farm. Nobody wants what they find objectionable in their back yard so why would anyone buy a backyard already containing something objectionable.

[Bibbyman]

Both Mary and my families are totally rural in background.  Mary's sister and husband have a small horse ranch near us.  Their next door neighbors also have a good size parcel of land and run some cattle but moved to the farm from the city.  They trade help, equipment, etc., as good farm neighbors often do.  But when the neighbor's wife complains about being late because she got behind a combine on the county road,  my sister-in-law has a swift, no mercy comeback;  "If you don't like it, move back to town."  When her neighbor got up a petition to have a low-water crossing replaced buy a bridge and asked my sister-in-law to sign it, she got the same answer.  (The little stream only runs when there is a heavy rain and is impassable only maybe a couple of hours total in a year.  A simple bridge would probably cost a million bucks because of all the environmental BS that has to go along with the construction of it.)

My sister-in-law's comments; "They move here from the city to get away from it then they want to bring in their sidewalks, backyard fences, streetlights, trash service, public water, fire protection, ambulance district, etc.. Then they complain about the horse manure composting next to their neighbor's barn,  the row of broken down farm machinery on the back forty, noise of you sighting in your deer rifle and the howling coon dogs, and the dust raised from cuttin' beans.  Then they want pass planning and zoning and make rules that will only impose upon the rural activity so they can enjoy life like in the city."